When will Zac be fired?

[TJ528]

(05-08-2021, 10:06 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: He’ll make it to 22. Last year he had too many injuries on the team. Year before that he was brought in late and took forever to get a coaching staff together, and learning his new team. Sounds like nothing but excuses I know, but not ideal in any way to pile up numbers in the win column. WTS, I’m definitely not as high on him now as i was 2yrs ago and I wish him all the best on a great season.

I think he'll make it through the 21 season to finish it out. However,  I don't think there's anyway the front office can justify a potential 12-43-1 record and expect people to show up at PBS. I think at that point you have to make a change to have some type of excitement going into 2022.

[JWW1971]

(05-07-2021, 10:27 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If we have a 3rd losing season in a row with ZT he and all the players who are happy with him need to go.

I'm not same that he doesn't need to go, I'm saying that he won't be sacked. He might choose to walk away (not sure when his contract ends) but he will not be sacked as it will make Kate & Duke look like failures as he was there first appointment

[BengalsRocker]

(05-08-2021, 08:27 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Zac Taylor appears to be a very smart human being but the jury is still out on whether or not he is a smart head coach.  With this current roster I believe even Dave Shula could go 9-8.  

To completely fair Marvin Lewis did not take the Bengals to the playoffs until his third year as head coach. However, his first two seasons showed great improvement because the Bengals finished 8-8 in both of those years.  Zac is 2-14 and 4-11-1 which is terrible and a long way from 8-8.

The question I have is how do we define success in 2021? Making the playoffs? A winning record? I have no idea what is going on in Mike Brown’s head so I don’t know what his criteria for success is.

My personal theory is Mike Brown will keep Zac employed as long as he sees “improvement.” The bar here is set very low and I think if the Bengals win five or more games Zac will stay.  

If it were up to me I would have unloaded Zac Taylor after Week Two in 2019.

Plus Taylor is very tech savvy, so if Mike needs to use the fax machine Zac is on it!

[Destro]

Need to make an "excuses for Zac Taylor" bingo board. Sure to be tons at year's end.

Not being a downer, I just think the reality is we still finish at or near the bottom of our division.

[*Nately120*]

(05-08-2021, 08:39 AM)OSUfan Wrote: Do people actually not realize that rosters are not plug and play related to personnel matching up and personnel matching a coaching staff? Continued success has to be built. I guess the Cleveland Brown theory is one way to go where you fire HCs every season until you have acquired enough top 10 draft selections that someone can walk in and be relatively successful.

Looking at things objectively you also have to consider the magnitude of injuries that this team saw in 2020 and they were injuries to key starters. Factor in that Taylor had to weed out malcontents like Dunlap that thought they should play whether performing or not, because they were use to having starting positions because they were veterans.

So Why did they fire Turner?  Why didn't all these excuses protect him?

[*Nately120*]

(05-08-2021, 10:33 AM)JWW1971 Wrote: I'm not same that he doesn't need to go, I'm saying that he won't be sacked. He might choose to walk away (not sure when his contract ends) but he will not be sacked as it will make Kate & Duke look like failures as he was there first appointment

I know what you mean but geez...lets not fire a bad HC because we will look bad for hiring him?  That's like giving Ryan Leaf a 15 year contract because an you drafted him too high.  

Sunk cost and all that.  It's just oddly funny to think of Katie and Troy thinking no one will notice a bad HC if they don't fire him.

[*ochocincos*]

I don't understand those who say Taylor just needs time to get the players to adapt to the schemes.
He's going into his third year and has as many wins in that timespan as the team he took over from Marvin.
Marvin Lewis took the worst team in the league in 2002 (2-14) and got them to 8-8 immediately, another 8-8 the following year, and then division champs in 2005 with arguably the best offense in the past two decades.
Brian Flores turned around a Dolphins team in just his second season.

Why is it acceptable that Zac Taylor took over a 6-10 team to a 2-14 record, then a 4-11-1 record.
Now, we want to basically say that even if he doesn't get to a winning record this year but still improves on 4-11-1, they should probably keep him because it takes a long time to get players acclimated to new schemes?

I'm sorry, but even if you want to use the injury excuse, that's why you add good depth.
Taylor chose to draft Ryan Finley, and he chose to sign (and now re-sign) Brandon Allen.
They chose to re-sign Bobby Hart.
They chose to extend a RB for $12 mill a year in a pass-focused offense.
They chose to go with mid-to-late round LBs and bad journeyman veteran stopgap LBs vs actually addressing LB.

[Benton]

(05-08-2021, 12:51 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I don't understand those who say Taylor just needs time to get the players to adapt to the schemes.
He's going into his third year and has as many wins in that timespan as the team he took over from Marvin.
Marvin Lewis took the worst team in the league in 2002 (2-14) and got them to 8-8 immediately, another 8-8 the following year, and then division champs in 2005 with arguably the best offense in the past two decades.
Brian Flores turned around a Dolphins team in just his second season.

Why is it acceptable that Zac Taylor took over a 6-10 team to a 2-14 record, then a 4-11-1 record.
Now, we want to basically say that even if he doesn't get to a winning record this year but still improves on 4-11-1, they should probably keep him because it takes a long time to get players acclimated to new schemes?

I'm sorry, but even if you want to use the injury excuse, that's why you add good depth.
Taylor chose to draft Ryan Finley, and he chose to sign (and now re-sign) Brandon Allen.
They chose to re-sign Bobby Hart.
They chose to extend a RB for $12 mill a year in a pass-focused offense.
They chose to go with mid-to-late round LBs and bad journeyman veteran stopgap LBs vs actually addressing LB.

Flores had 24 first round picks. Marvin walked in to a first rate roster.

Zac walked in to a team that thought John Ross was a top 10 pick. 

I think most folks realize he wasnt going to come in to the garbage roster and take it to a super bowl. 

[*ochocincos*]

(05-08-2021, 01:23 PM)Benton Wrote: Flores had 24 first round picks. Marvin walked in to a first rate roster.

Zac walked in to a team that thought John Ross was a top 10 pick. 

I think most folks realize he wasnt going to come in to the garbage roster and take it to a super bowl. 

I disagree that it was a garbage roster.
AJ Green
Tyler Boyd
Joe Mixon
Gio Bernard
Andy Dalton
Tyler Eifert
Jessie Bates
Shawn Williams
WJ3
Dre Kirkpatrick
Darqueze Dennard
Geno Atkins
Carlos Dunlap
Andrew Billings
Carl Lawson
Sam Hubbard
Clint Boling

Boling retired due to blood clot issue right before training camp started, which was unexpected, and it resulted in the forced start of Michael Jordan.
Jonah Williams, who was considered by most as the best OL in the 2019 draft class, was drafted to take over LT duties. The team and he decided for him to have shoulder surgery to repair a torn labrum that he played through his final year at Alabama.
So really, the only concerns I had when Taylor took over were OL and LB. OL became more of a concern after the above things happened.

So while I didn't expect Taylor to take the Bengals to the Super Bowl with that roster, I did expect him to get them back to a winning record his first season, not take them to worst record in the league and then only 4.5 wins his second season.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-08-2021, 01:23 PM)Benton Wrote: Flores had 24 first round picks. Marvin walked in to a first rate roster.

Zac walked in to a team that thought John Ross was a top 10 pick. 

I think most folks realize he wasnt going to come in to the garbage roster and take it to a super bowl. 

Agree, but just about anybody can take a garbage roster and rebuild it in 5 years.

You want a coach who makes the most of what he has. I don't think Taylor has done that.

2-7-1 with Joe Burrow. Some of his staff hires (Turner, Lou, etc) have been atrocious.

Very little progress in 2 years.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-08-2021, 01:46 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I disagree that it was a garbage roster.
AJ Green
Tyler Boyd
Joe Mixon
Gio Bernard
Andy Dalton
Tyler Eifert
Jessie Bates
Shawn Williams
WJ3
Dre Kirkpatrick
Darqueze Dennard
Geno Atkins
Carlos Dunlap
Andrew Billings
Carl Lawson
Sam Hubbard
Clint Boling

Boling retired due to blood clot issue right before training camp started, which was unexpected, and it resulted in the forced start of Michael Jordan.
Jonah Williams, who was considered by most as the best OL in the 2019 draft class, was drafted to take over LT duties. The team and he decided for him to have shoulder surgery to repair a torn labrum that he played through his final year at Alabama.
So really, the only concerns I had when Taylor took over were OL and LB. OL became more of a concern after the above things happened.

So while I didn't expect Taylor to take the Bengals to the Super Bowl with that roster, I did expect him to get them back to a winning record his first season, not take them to worst record in the league and then only 4.5 wins his second season.

A lot of those guys were washed up or injured. I do think we had more talent than a typical 2 win team though. O-line was trash and Zac made it worse by hiring Turner.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-07-2021, 04:21 PM)jason Wrote: This....


I think it's overdue, but I'm hoping the light comes on, and we all feel like fools for wanting him fired.

Same. I want to be a fool. Zac is a likeable guy, I want him to succeed as our HC...

Make or break year though. Need to get into the Playoffs and win a game for him to stick around.

[Benton]

(05-08-2021, 01:46 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I disagree that it was a garbage roster.
AJ Green
Tyler Boyd
Joe Mixon
Gio Bernard
Andy Dalton
Tyler Eifert
Jessie Bates
Shawn Williams
WJ3
Dre Kirkpatrick
Darqueze Dennard
Geno Atkins
Carlos Dunlap
Andrew Billings
Carl Lawson
Sam Hubbard
Clint Boling

Boling retired due to blood clot issue right before training camp started, which was unexpected, and it resulted in the forced start of Michael Jordan.
Jonah Williams, who was considered by most as the best OL in the 2019 draft class, was drafted to take over LT duties. The team and he decided for him to have shoulder surgery to repair a torn labrum that he played through his final year at Alabama.
So really, the only concerns I had when Taylor took over were OL and LB. OL became more of a concern after the above things happened.

So while I didn't expect Taylor to take the Bengals to the Super Bowl with that roster, I did expect him to get them back to a winning record his first season, not take them to worst record in the league and then only 4.5 wins his second season.

The majority of the guys mentioned were injured or washed up by the time Zac got here.

I mean, sure, aj was great several years ago but dude didn't even play in 2019. AD went from starter to journeyman. Eifert was always great... All four games a year he played. Mixon spent most of last year on the couch. Etc etc.

I mean, seriously, there's maybe three guys on that list that are good and played at least 14 games last season. Hell, some of them weren't even on the team because they were dead weight two years ago.

[BengalsRocker]

(05-08-2021, 01:23 PM)Benton Wrote: Flores had 24 first round picks. Marvin walked in to a first rate roster.

Zac walked in to a team that thought John Ross was a top 10 pick. 

I think most folks realize he wasnt going to come in to the garbage roster and take it to a super bowl. 

Whaaaaat?!?

Not Super Bowl but damn you guys have a short memory.

"Most folks" thought this guy was gonna make Marvin look like a super chump.

Of course yourself could've been like me who thought he was going to have issues.

That still doesn't fall under most folks.

I remember all kinds of threads and polls where Taylor couldn't manage to sniff the failure of Marvin's last season.

Crazy shitts I tells ya!

[jfkbengals]

(05-08-2021, 01:23 PM)Benton Wrote: Flores had 24 first round picks. Marvin walked in to a first rate roster.

Zac walked in to a team that thought John Ross was a top 10 pick. 

I think most folks realize he wasnt going to come in to the garbage roster and take it to a super bowl. 

Strongly disagree with this statement.

Now, there were some great players there (CD, Spikes, Simmons, Smith, the Oline), but there were a ton of scrubs on the 2-14 team he acquired as well. 

But Marvin's first offseason saw a number of great acquisitions via trade, FA, and the draft to set things up for his tenure to succeed.

[*jason*]

(05-08-2021, 07:11 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Whaaaaat?!?

Not Super Bowl but damn you guys have a short memory.

"Most folks" thought this guy was gonna make Marvin look like a super chump.

Of course yourself could've been like me who thought he was going to have issues.

That still doesn't fall under most folks.

I remember all kinds of threads and polls where Taylor couldn't manage to sniff the failure of Marvin's last season.

Crazy shitts I tells ya!

He was gonna finally modernize the Bengals (into a full on losing team), and get the most outta John Ross (Marvin broke his spirit).

[Benton]

(05-08-2021, 07:20 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: Strongly disagree with this statement.

Now, there were some great players there (CD, Spikes, Simmons, Smith, the Oline), but there were a ton of scrubs on the 2-14 team he acquired as well. 

But Marvin's first offseason saw a number of great acquisitions via trade, FA, and the draft to set things up for his tenure to succeed.

Eh I see your point, but at the same time, when Marvin's first season started, he had a very, very good team. Imo. That offense was built when they entered camp.

Zac had AD and Mixon. And... Yeah... That's about it. But I would say he had a better (slightly) defense than Marvin inherited.

[*Nately120*]

(05-08-2021, 07:11 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Whaaaaat?!?

Not Super Bowl but damn you guys have a short memory.

"Most folks" thought this guy was gonna make Marvin look like a super chump.

Of course yourself could've been like me who thought he was going to have issues.

That still doesn't fall under most folks.

I remember all kinds of threads and polls where Taylor couldn't manage to sniff the failure of Marvin's last season.

Crazy shitts I tells ya!

No kidding.  When ZT came here he was going to revitalize Dalton and get him back to 2015 form and he was going to make sure Mixon and Ross were used correctly so they would become the dynamite players they failed to be because Marvin refused to use them.  Two miserable seasons later and ZT isn't at fault because the team he got from Marvin was 2-14 awful, apparently.

At any rate, if ZT isn't awesome this year why shouldn't we get rid of him?  Shouldn't every HC in the world want to be the HC of a team with Burrow, Mixon, Chase, etc on it?  Why are we settling for ZT when we should have the best HC's on earth begging to come here?

Also, the biggest excuse for ZT is injuries, but why did we even fire Marvin, then?  The guy was two bad luck QB injuries away from hoisting the Lombardi twice, as far as we can convince ourselves to believe. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(05-08-2021, 08:42 AM)OSUfan Wrote: So let me see if I have this correct...you believe that this thread was meant to be a validation of the abilities of Zac Taylor and that the creator of the thread posted it with positive intent backing Taylor as the HC...does this sum it up?

No. From all angles it looks negative. What i was saying is, instead of replying in kind, give an opinion like the one i stated. Then you have a positive reply and, who knows, maybe more follow suit. 

I know you don't like the angle of the thread so i was saying a positive reply cancels that out. 

This reply isn't just for you. It's for anyone that doesn't like these kinds of threads. Instead of keeping the negativity going (whether it's the thread subject or the poster), turn that sheet around. 

[*jason*]

(05-08-2021, 08:49 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: No. From all angles it looks negative. What i was saying is, instead of replying in kind, give an opinion like the one i stated. Then you have a positive reply and, who knows, maybe more follow suit. 

I know you don't like the angle of the thread so i was saying a positive reply cancels that out. 

This reply isn't just for you. It's for anyone that doesn't like these kinds of threads. Instead of keeping the negativity going (whether it's the thread subject or the poster), turn that sheet around. 

I bet Zac Taylor is a fine father, and has a wonderful mother's day planned for his wife, mother, and mother in law...