When will Zac be fired?

[masterpanthera_t]

(05-12-2021, 03:53 PM)Benton Wrote: Eh, the 2002 team had a horrid record because of bad coaching and a lot of it still being young. That's the exact opposite of the 2019 team (except for the coaching part). It was a bad team that was mostly old.

I don't disagree with the idea Marvin would have done better with that crappy roster. It was, in part, the crappy roster he assembled. Marvin had his style of ball, which was "don't lose". That's the kind of guys he looked for. Guys who weren't necessarily good, but who were consistent. 

So I agree Marvin would've won more than Zac did in 2019, but I completely disagree that the 2019 was a better roster than the 2003 roster. Hell, 2003 at least had an ol if nothing else.

Meh, there was hardly any young players who made a significant jump from 2002 to 2003. Chad already had 1100 yards in 2002 and went for 1300 in 2003. Warrick's numbers definitely didn't change much over the previous year. T.J didn't even play in 2003 due to injuries. The 2003 line had mostly veteran players and a second year player in Levi. Even if he improved a lot over 2002 ( which I'm not ready to accept, since he had a pretty good rookiee year to begin with), the team's improvement wasn't due to age. It was all the daily coaching to improve belief and player development done by Marvin. Along with the veterans he brought in on defense, where they improved even with losing Takeo.
Marvin has proven his coaching credentials enough that he would have coached circles around Taylor in 2019 with the same roster. Taylor had a chance to bring his own veterans in 2019 and 2020. He hasn't done much with them yet.
I guess we'll just agree to disagree.

Ultimately, I don't care about what happened in 2003. If Taylor can take them to 8 wins or better, I'll be somewhat ok with giving him another chance. Otherwise, time to go.

[OSUfan]

(05-10-2021, 02:35 PM)Nately120 Wrote: They had Freddie Kitchens...he looked like crap and they fired him and got a better HC and won 11 games and won a road playoff game his first season with a roster that hadn't had a winning season with Hue or Freddie Kitchens.  Both Hue and Kitchens had plausible excuses like ZT as to why they looked like they weren't fit to be head coaches, but the Browns pulled the plug.  Again, we are now way too talented to settle for a HC like ZT unless ZT turns things around on a dime.

I also find it a bit concerning that we are going down the John Ross route with ZT.  

He's gonna be an instant improvement!
Ok, well he needs a better roster
Ok, he needs better luck with this better roster
No one could have succeeded those first few years but he's gonna make us eat crow this year!

...and so on.  

So this is what instant success looks like?:

Eric Mangini 2009-2010
Pat Shurmur 2011-2012
Rob Chudzinski 2013
Mike Pettine 2014-2015
Hue Jackson 2016-2018
Gregg Williams 2018
Freddie Kitchens 2019
Kevin Stefanski 2020

Is that instant success or blind squirrel finally finds a nut? Constant and repeated change just is not something I would equate as a road to success. You cannot build any continuity by going about it this way.

[BengalsRocker]

(05-12-2021, 08:48 PM)OSUfan Wrote: So this is what instant success looks like?:

Eric Mangini 2009-2010
Pat Shurmur 2011-2012
Rob Chudzinski 2013
Mike Pettine 2014-2015
Hue Jackson 2016-2018
Gregg Williams 2018
Freddie Kitchens 2019
Kevin Stefanski 2020

Is that instant success or blind squirrel finally finds a nut? Constant and repeated change just is not something I would equate as a road to success. You cannot build any continuity by going about it this way.

Zac wins now.  No more excuses.

Better coaches can be found.

Taylor has zero success in a position of management.

You just can't hold onto hope if the needle never moves.

This season is his defining moment.

[*Nately120*]

(05-12-2021, 08:48 PM)OSUfan Wrote: So this is what instant success looks like?:

Eric Mangini 2009-2010
Pat Shurmur 2011-2012
Rob Chudzinski 2013
Mike Pettine 2014-2015
Hue Jackson 2016-2018
Gregg Williams 2018
Freddie Kitchens 2019
Kevin Stefanski 2020

Is that instant success or blind squirrel finally finds a nut? Constant and repeated change just is not something I would equate as a road to success. You cannot build any continuity by going about it this way.

It is a little sad the Browns can hire 15 crap coaches and start 30 crap QBs and still find post season success before we do. 

[OSUfan]

(05-12-2021, 08:58 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Zac wins now.  No more excuses.

Better coaches can be found.

Taylor has zero success in a position of management.

You just can't hold onto hope if the needle never moves.

This season is his defining moment.

Never = 2 seasons going into the third.

Not even sure what Taylor has zero success in a position of management is even suppose to mean. 

Better coaches can be found - Do you mean the same old recycled list of has been coaches or someone new?

[Destro]

So the bye week is Week 10. What W/L record is a firing line?

[BengalsRocker]

(05-12-2021, 09:34 PM)OSUfan Wrote: Never = 2 seasons going into the third.

Not even sure what Taylor has zero success in a position of management is even suppose to mean. 

Better coaches can be found - Do you mean the same old recycled list of has been coaches or someone new?

The guy is a newb that has failed miserably at OC("management"=coordinator)before, yet he's a 1st time HC that calls the offense.

His only success is QB coach for Goff.

This season defines him.  He must show something.

Sorry if you were one of the ones who previously thought "anyone is better than Marvin" and most certainly Zac was gonna take the team somewhere.

It's pretty sorry that our fan base is secretly(and some not secretly)pining for Marvin.

This guy makes Marvin look fantastic.  Just remember that at least 5 wins this season or he's worse than Shula year 3.

Why should this roster have to suffer if Taylor can't get it together...  'cause Browns?

If anything this ownership is not the Browns so he'll get time.  Don't worry.

Oh and the Browns of new are not of old. 

They've built a strong team methodically with a good HC... so yes modern times has pointed to instant success on their recent hire.

I don't know if you watched them with Kitchens but he made some disastrous decisions that impacted them. 

There is a clear difference with Stefanski.  Coach of the year 2020.

I want to see some frickin' results or them to hire a HC that has something of merit to instill future success.

[JaggedJimmyJay]

(05-12-2021, 09:47 PM)Destro Wrote: So the bye week is Week 10. What W/L record is a firing line?

3-6 through 9 games. 4-5 could be too depending upon how it happens (e.g. starting 4-1 and losing 4 straight is worse than starting 1-4 and winning 3 of 4).

[*jason*]

(05-12-2021, 03:53 PM)Benton Wrote: Eh, the 2002 team had a horrid record because of bad coaching and a lot of it still being young. That's the exact opposite of the 2019 team (except for the coaching part). It was a bad team that was mostly old.

I don't disagree with the idea Marvin would have done better with that crappy roster. It was, in part, the crappy roster he assembled. Marvin had his style of ball, which was "don't lose". That's the kind of guys he looked for. Guys who weren't necessarily good, but who were consistent. 

So I agree Marvin would've won more than Zac did in 2019, but I completely disagree that the 2019 was a better roster than the 2003 roster. Hell, 2003 at least had an ol if nothing else.

Marvin Ball - Don't lose

Zac Ball - Lose close

[XenoMorph]

(05-12-2021, 10:56 PM)jason Wrote: Marvin Ball - Don't lose

Zac Ball - Lose close

Lol Zac... is about Moral Victories

[TecmoBengals]

(05-12-2021, 10:56 PM)jason Wrote: Marvin Ball - Don't lose

Zac Ball - Lose close

(05-13-2021, 09:26 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Lol Zac... is about Moral Victories

These two posts should be the final posts allowed on this board until Zac proves us wrong, succinct and sums up recent Bengals history.

[*Nately120*]

ZT will be fired...out of a canon because the only job he will be able to get after losing here is circus clown. Unless his dad also has a stakehouse. Maybe he can manage Hulk Hogan's Pastamania restaurant?

Sickest burn.

[Emeritus]

After year four of the Joe Burrow rookie deal.
Zac is a young offensive guru remember....

[Isaac Curtis: The Real #85]

If we start 0-4 and lose to Jacksonville he should be gone.

1-3 is dicier, depends on the nature of the losses.

My gut says he gets the whole season barring a 0-4 or 1-8 type start.

[CJD]

He will make it to 22.

Not necessarily because I think he should, but because I do think we win 7 to 9 games this year with a revitalized offense and an improved defense. Even last year we were really close in 5 games on top of the 4 we won (Chargers, Eagles, Browns, Colts, Giants), so 7 wins is very realistic.

With that level of improvement, I think Zac stays through the end of his contract. If he makes the playoffs by the end of 22, I think he walks into a new contract.