More Schein Love

[GreenCornBengal]

Adam Schein flat out hated the Bengals during the Dalton era. Ever since we’ve drafted Burrow, Cinci has become his love child.

His latest article has his 10 bold predictions for the year. One of them is that the Bengals will have more wins than the Steelers this year...

https://www.nfl.com/news/bold-predictions-for-2021-nfl-season-aaron-rodgers-lifts-broncos-julio-jones-fue

Is this bold? Idk. But it’s another nice sentiment from our new lover.

[*SHRacerX*]

I like Schein, and used to enjoy him more on the NFL Network. I think he is a pretty astute observer when it comes to the NFL, and he won't hold history over a team when it has nothing to do with the current roster.

[MTBengalsFan]

I like Schein as well. If you really want to like him, just listen to Cowherd...aka Coward first!

[jfkbengals]

(05-26-2021, 06:24 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Adam Schein flat out hated the Bengals during the Dalton era. Ever since we’ve drafted Burrow, Cinci has become his love child.

His latest article has his 10 bold predictions for the year. One of them is that the Bengals will have more wins than the Steelers this year...

https://www.nfl.com/news/bold-predictions-for-2021-nfl-season-aaron-rodgers-lifts-broncos-julio-jones-fue

Is this bold? Idk. But it’s another nice sentiment from our new lover.

I disagree with that statement.  I used to listen to him on the Sirius Blitz, and he was never anti-Bengals.  That period included several seasons of the Dalton/Green era.

[GreenCornBengal]

(05-26-2021, 09:26 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: I disagree with that statement.  I used to listen to him on the Sirius Blitz, and he was never anti-Bengals.  That period included several seasons of the Dalton/Green era.

Strange, I remember him as being the guy who invented the Dalton line and said each year we had no chance... maybe I have the wrong guy?

[jfkbengals]

(05-26-2021, 10:07 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Strange, I remember him as being the guy who invented the Dalton line and said each year we had no chance... maybe I have the wrong guy?

Not sure what line that is.

I know he went to Mad Dog Radio after NFL Radio, and never listened to him there.  Maybe he got jaded like our own fan base and started to complain there?  Regardless, he wasn't against the guy prior to 2013 at the earliest...

[OUatown]

I hope he is correct

[Frank Booth]

wow so some douche from manhattan cares? sweet

[Shake n Blake]

(05-26-2021, 10:07 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Strange, I remember him as being the guy who invented the Dalton line and said each year we had no chance... maybe I have the wrong guy?

Gregg Rosenthal invented the Dalton line.

The guy who used to be Florio's #2 on PFT.

[CJD]

Honestly, the fact that we intentionally mired ourselves in the Dalton era for almost an entire decade is still baffling to me. I don't blame Schein for that one.

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-27-2021, 09:27 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Honestly, the fact that we intentionally mired ourselves in the Dalton era for almost an entire decade is still baffling to me. I don't blame Schein for that one.

People forget that one of the reasons that the Dalton-led Bengals had so much success early on was his low contract.  It allowed for a much deeper roster.  Even his second contract at around $17 million per year was a bargain compared to the likes of Cousins at $33 million for similar performance.  

This roster will have some really tough questions when it comes time to offer Burrow his next contract.  One thing is for certain, they should start acquiring draft picks for aging vets pretty soon.  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-27-2021, 09:49 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: People forget that one of the reasons that the Dalton-led Bengals had so much success early on was his low contract.  It allowed for a much deeper roster.  Even his second contract at around $17 million per year was a bargain compared to the likes of Cousins at $33 million for similar performance.  

This roster will have some really tough questions when it comes time to offer Burrow his next contract.  One thing is for certain, they should start acquiring draft picks for aging vets pretty soon.  

Very true, Dalton was a bargain, really helped to make the roster as a whole much better around him.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(05-27-2021, 09:27 AM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Honestly, the fact that we intentionally mired ourselves in the Dalton era for almost an entire decade is still baffling to me. I don't blame Schein for that one.

His first 6 years the Bengals had a 56-35-2 record, went to the playoffs 5 times, and Dalton was a Pro Bowler 3 times.

If you're baffled then that's a problem with your memory or how you're choosing to remember that time. 

You might point to the fact that he didn't win a single game out of his 4 playoff games, but I would pin that problem more on Marvin than Andy. Marvin had 4 different QBs in playoff games and all of them sucked and lost. 1 or maybe 2 QBs? Might be the QBs. 4 QBs? There's something more.

[CJD]

(05-27-2021, 09:05 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: His first 6 years the Bengals had a 56-35-2 record, went to the playoffs 5 times, and Dalton was a Pro Bowler 3 times.

If you're baffled then that's a problem with your memory or how you're choosing to remember that time. 

You might point to the fact that he didn't win a single game out of his 4 playoff games, but I would pin that problem more on Marvin than Andy. Marvin had 4 different QBs in playoff games and all of them sucked and lost. 1 or maybe 2 QBs? Might be the QBs. 4 QBs? There's something more.

He's not on the team anymore. You don't need to defend him. We did well with him when he was younger because the team around him was really, really, really good. He was average or worse his entire career except for 2015 when he had probably the best roster in the NFL around him. Have you already forgotten "Bad Andy?"

We had opportunities to upgrade him, but chose not to because we, foolishly, believed we were "just one player away" from winning that playoff game. We were so obsessed with a short term goal, winning a single playoff game, that we failed to build for a long term, successful run with an actually talented QB.

Andy Dalton was the perfect back up QB, but he should not have been a starter for a decade. Especially with absolutely no competition every single year. It's almost like the coaches were afraid to even try to improve the position.

If you don't agree with that, then your memory is the one that is faulty, not mine.

[rezolve11]

(05-27-2021, 01:01 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Gregg Rosenthal invented the Dalton line.

The guy who used to be Florio's #2 on PFT.

I could be wrong but I think the Around the NFL gang which includes Rosenthal attributed the Dalton Line to the late great Chris Wesseling.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-27-2021, 09:14 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: He's not on the team anymore. You don't need to defend him. We did well with him when he was younger because the team around him was really, really, really good. He was average or worse his entire career except for 2015 when he had probably the best roster in the NFL around him. Have you already forgotten "Bad Andy?"

We had opportunities to upgrade him, but chose not to because we, foolishly, believed we were "just one player away" from winning that playoff game. We were so obsessed with a short term goal, winning a single playoff game, that we failed to build for a long term, successful run with an actually talented QB.

Andy Dalton was the perfect back up QB, but he should not have been a starter for a decade. Especially with absolutely no competition every single year. It's almost like the coaches were afraid to even try to improve the position.

If you don't agree with that, then your memory is the one that is faulty, not mine.

1. Dalton ranked 15th or better in passer rating 4 out of 5 years between 2012 and 2016. That's slightly better than average among starters. That's not "average or worse".

2. People always exaggerate the talent we had on offense. 2015 was the best year we had, talent wise, but even that team wasn't the 1999 Rams or even last years Bucs. AJ was a beast of course. Marvin Jones was an excellent #2. Beyond that, how great were they?

Sanu never amounted to much. Eifert was a one year wonder, our version of Jordan Cameron. The run game ranked 23rd in yards per carry. We had some really good weapons, but people talk like it was something epic. It wasn't. Heck, we're about to have better weapons this year. I wonder if you will take credit from Burrow for that?

The rest of the time, we had #2 WRs like Jerome Simpson, Armon Binns, Greg Little, Brandon Lafell, etc. Average at best, probably worse. We never had a great run game for the duration of Dalton's tenure. Eifert was perpetually injured, so the TEs stunk. The offense usually fell on him and AJ.

3. Calling Dalton a backup QB (during his prime) is silly. You said yourself he was performing as an average starter. With a bad run game. A backup QB doesn't maintain that level of play and lead a team to the playoffs 5 years in a row.

What other backup level QB has ever accomplished such feats?

[Shake n Blake]

(05-27-2021, 09:53 PM)rezolve11 Wrote: I could be wrong but I think the Around the NFL gang which includes Rosenthal attributed the Dalton Line to the late great Chris Wesseling.

Maybe? I just know Rosenthal made it famous and used it constantly.

Notorious Bengal hater btw. Pretty sure both he and Florio were Steelers homers.

[rezolve11]

(05-27-2021, 09:56 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Maybe? I just know Rosenthal made it famous and used it constantly.

Notorious Bengal hater btw. Pretty sure both he and Florio were Steelers homers.

He’s a pats fan, but tbh it’s not hard to come off as a bengals hater when they haven’t done anything in years. We’re an unfortunate easy target.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-27-2021, 10:00 PM)rezolve11 Wrote: He’s a pats fan, but tbh it’s not hard to come off as a bengals hater when they haven’t done anything in years. We’re an unfortunate easy target.

Ok, Steelers sympathizer then. People say Florio is a Vikings fan, but he's extremely Steelers friendly.

Yeah I'm not one of those who thinks the media always unfairly criticizes the team. But some - such as Rosenthal and Florio - were unusually heavy handed in their criticism, and didn't have much good to say even during our 5 year playoff run...which included a lot of winning.

Yeah yeah, 0 playoff wins...but they weren't just critical of us losing in the playoffs. Theres a difference between fair criticism and coming off as a salty hater.

[CJD]

(05-27-2021, 09:55 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Sigh...

1. Dalton ranked 15th or better in passer rating 4 out of 5 years between 2012 and 2016. That's slightly better than average among starters. That's not "average or worse".

2. People always exaggerate the talent we had on offense. 2015 was the best year we had, talent wise, but even that team wasn't the 1999 Rams or even last years Bucs. AJ was a beast of course. Marvin Jones was an excellent #2. Beyond that, how great were they?

Sanu never amounted to much. Eifert was a one year wonder. The run game ranked 23rd in yards per carry. We had some really good weapons, but people talk like it was something epic. It wasn't.

The rest of the time, we had #2 WRs like Jerome Simpson, Armon Binns, Greg Little, Brandon Lafell, etc. Average at best, probably worse. We never had a great run game for the duration of Dalton's tenure. The offense usually fell on him and AJ.

3. Calling Dalton a backup QB (during his prime) is silly. You said yourself he was performing as an average starter. With a bad run game. A backup QB doesn't maintain that level of play and lead a team to the playoffs 5 years in a row.

What other backup level QB has ever accomplished such feats?

Sigh...

I said he would be the perfect back up QB because that would be his ideal role. He was a starter for a decade, but he should not have been. Especially not an unopposed starter. If they drafted players or signed players to compete with him and he beat them out, fair enough but we never even tried.

The Dalton Line is basically exactly how I felt about him. He was the defining mark. If you're better than Dalton, you deserve to be a starting QB. If you're worse, you need to be replaced. He sat in that limbo for his entire career, except for 2016 when people thought he finally "turned the corner," despite all evidence that players don't magically change from an average starter to an elite starter after 6 years in the NFL. Obviously, we were all promptly shown that was not the case in 2016 and beyond.

I see Dalton the same way I see Ryan Fitzpatrick. He'd be an asset to just about any team in the NFL, but you should have a plan other than starting him with no competition for the role.

As for 2015's talent, Eifert, Green, Jones and Sanu was one of the most potent receiving corps in the NFL that year, regardless of what Sanu or Eifert did the following years and their offensive line had Whitworth, Zeitler, Boling and Smith, all of whom were above average or better (with Whitworth being elite) at their position. The offense was absolutely stacked in 2015.

Not to mention the defense that was 2nd in the NFL in points allowed per game.