Adeniji out for the year.....

[Essex Johnson]

Well not good start for a line still very thin and injury prone already..

[Whatever]

(06-16-2021, 09:47 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Bodies for Camp will be needed.

They still have 13 healthy OL.  Besides which, with COVID, most teams are going to minimize unnecessary exposure by not bringing in camp bodies that have no chance to make the roster.

[Tony]

(06-15-2021, 05:10 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Probably a weight room injury. Hopefully this is our yearly "out for the year" camp injury and the bug will go somewhere else.

At least it wasn't..


Ya I'm just not gonna say it.

[Tony]

(06-15-2021, 05:48 PM)jj22 Wrote: And so it begins.

Was hoping we found a gem in him.

I honestly believed we did.... Won't be the first time I was wrong or the last.... We need to try to only draft or sign the most durable players. That really needs to be taken into account more... I hate that Carmen has back issues. Worries the shit out of me. 1 injury on the line and we are in serious trouble again..

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-15-2021, 02:35 PM)Tony Wrote: https://twitter.com/NewStripeCity/status/1404854458446716929?s=19

Torn Pec

Dang, I like this player. I like how smart he is when he talked being a former team Captain on Kansas and all.

Has good feet and good length. Hope he comes back well from this injury, too bad. Need to add a depth piece now.

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-16-2021, 08:56 AM)Sled21 Wrote: His pass blocking grades are worst than Bobby Hart's. I don't know why people keep clamoring for this guy.

I don't believe that is true.  They said on Locked on Bengals that his pass blocking grade was 70?  He was also the 5th ranked RT in the league, according to PFF?  

Bottom line, he is a hell of a lot better than anything else we have, and very similar to Reiff. 

If the Bengals offered him $15 million, they could save at least $3 million cutting XSF and then having Reiff at LG.

I would really like the line of:   Williams-Reiff-Hopkins/Price-Carman-Moses, and it would have the flexibility to move Reiff back outside should one of the other OTs get injured.  Right now, I don't like the idea of Fred Johnson as our backup tackle and really, after him, do you want them to force Carman outside?  They need another OT.  

[SunsetBengal]

(06-17-2021, 08:13 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I don't believe that is true.  They said on Locked on Bengals that his pass blocking grade was 70?  He was also the 5th ranked RT in the league, according to PFF?  

Bottom line, he is a hell of a lot better than anything else we have, and very similar to Reiff. 

If the Bengals offered him $15 million, they could save at least $3 million cutting XSF and then having Reiff at LG.

I would really like the line of:   Williams-Reiff-Hopkins/Price-Carman-Moses, and it would have the flexibility to move Reiff back outside should one of the other OTs get injured.  Right now, I don't like the idea of Fred Johnson as our backup tackle and really, after him, do you want them to force Carman outside?  They need another OT.  

Agreed, this narrative of Moses being equal to Bobby Hart, is just plain lazy and absurd.

Quote:Throughout his career, Moses has generally produced at a solid level, but he had a career-best season in 2020 from a statistical standpoint. His career-high Pro Football Focus grade of 80.6 ranked sixth-best among right tackles. He had the position’s second-best run-blocking grade (85.9) and 15th-best pass blocking grade (70.8).

With numbers like that, Morgan Moses would immediately be our highest rated lineman.

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-17-2021, 08:42 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Agreed, this narrative of Moses being equal to Bobby Hart, is just plain lazy and absurd.


With numbers like that, Morgan Moses would immediately be our highest rated lineman.

Thanks for finding the actual numbers.  I was just going by what I heard on the podcast.  

Here is how I look at it:  The Bengals have Reiff signed for ONE YEAR.  Sure, maybe they could get him to sign again, but right now he is under a one-year deal.  If they are planning to draft an OT again next year in their first pick, it is still roughly a 50% proposition of whether or not that player becomes a solid contributor.  Moses is a known commodity.  If you signed him for 3 years, you could have him at RT and move Reiff inside to LG to see how he does there.  Could possibly extend his career.  And you have a lot of quality depth around the guard position with guys like Spain and maybe even Mike Jordan (did I just say that?).   Releasing XSF would free up some money to make it less of an impact on the cap space and shouldn't prevent them from extending the likes of Bates and Hubbard.

I'm saying all this about Moses without knowing what kind of guy he is at all.  Maybe he is a turd and a me-first guy.  No idea.  But if they do their due diligence and check him out, I think he would make a ton of sense.  

Proven.  Solid.  Affordable.  Oh, and he has been incredibly durable in his NFL career as well.  Sounds like Reiff 2.0.  Why would we not want that?  He is also just 30 years old.  

The Bengals have done a ton this offseason to improve the team.  I would hate to see it wasted because we didn't have enough quality depth at the most crucial position on the offensive line.  

[TJ528]

(06-17-2021, 08:13 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I don't believe that is true.  They said on Locked on Bengals that his pass blocking grade was 70?  He was also the 5th ranked RT in the league, according to PFF?  

Bottom line, he is a hell of a lot better than anything else we have, and very similar to Reiff. 

If the Bengals offered him $15 million, they could save at least $3 million cutting XSF and then having Reiff at LG.

I would really like the line of:   Williams-Reiff-Hopkins/Price-Carman-Moses, and it would have the flexibility to move Reiff back outside should one of the other OTs get injured.  Right now, I don't like the idea of Fred Johnson as our backup tackle and really, after him, do you want them to force Carman outside?  They need another OT.  

Problem is Racer, you and I both know the Bengals arent going to spend $15M on a Moses.  

The Bengals have an estimated $20M left over from free agency and they love carrying over extra money from season to season. 

They need to do something on the OL, but I have a feeling we'll hear company line come August, "we like the pieces we have in the building". 

[Sled21]

(06-17-2021, 08:50 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Thanks for finding the actual numbers.  I was just going by what I heard on the podcast.  

Here is how I look at it:  The Bengals have Reiff signed for ONE YEAR.  Sure, maybe they could get him to sign again, but right now he is under a one-year deal.  If they are planning to draft an OT again next year in their first pick, it is still roughly a 50% proposition of whether or not that player becomes a solid contributor.  Moses is a known commodity.  If you signed him for 3 years, you could have him at RT and move Reiff inside to LG to see how he does there.  Could possibly extend his career.  And you have a lot of quality depth around the guard position with guys like Spain and maybe even Mike Jordan (did I just say that?).   Releasing XSF would free up some money to make it less of an impact on the cap space and shouldn't prevent them from extending the likes of Bates and Hubbard.

I'm saying all this about Moses without knowing what kind of guy he is at all.  Maybe he is a turd and a me-first guy.  No idea.  But if they do their due diligence and check him out, I think he would make a ton of sense.  

Proven.  Solid.  Affordable.  Oh, and he has been incredibly durable in his NFL career as well.  Sounds like Reiff 2.0.  Why would we not want that?  He is also just 30 years old.  

The Bengals have done a ton this offseason to improve the team.  I would hate to see it wasted because we didn't have enough quality depth at the most crucial position on the offensive line.  

Naw, you're losing me at cutting a decent guard like XFS and calling Jordan quality depth. We can't afford to lose any of our top 3 guards.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

This is a blow not going to lie. He was dark horse to start at G over Spain XSF

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-17-2021, 08:42 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Agreed, this narrative of Moses being equal to Bobby Hart, is just plain lazy and absurd.


With numbers like that, Morgan Moses would immediately be our highest rated lineman.

Yes, all for Morgan Moses. Always liked the guy when I watched him play. He would have to start if we brought him in though.

If I have a problem with what SHRacer is saying it is moving Reiff to Guard over Jonah. Jonah just seems like a natural Guard 
more so than Reiff and Reiff is just such a good pass protector. With Moses recent run blocking grades he also might suit Guard
better Moses at LG? A line up of Jonah - Moses - Hopkins - Carman - Reiff could be excellent. That is some run blocking from the 
Guard positions...

[SunsetBengal]

(06-17-2021, 07:40 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yes, all for Morgan Moses. Always liked the guy when I watched him play. He would have to start if we brought him in though.

If I have a problem with what SHRacer is saying it is moving Reiff to Guard over Jonah. Jonah just seems like a natural Guard 
more so than Reiff and Reiff is just such a good pass protector. With Moses recent run blocking grades he also might suit Guard
better Moses at LG? A line up of Jonah - Moses - Hopkins - Carman - Reiff could be excellent. That is some run blocking from the 
Guard positions...

I wouldn't be too sure about that.  Moses has plenty of good experience at Tackle.  A Right side of Carman at RG and Moses at RT would be a formidable run blocking due on the Right side.

Just imagine how strong Joey B would look at QB, with a smash-mouth rushing attack to lean on, after securing the lead in games?

[Whatever]

(06-17-2021, 08:42 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Agreed, this narrative of Moses being equal to Bobby Hart, is just plain lazy and absurd.


With numbers like that, Morgan Moses would immediately be our highest rated lineman.

He's better than Hart, but 41 pressures and 5 sacks allowed are not good pass pro numbers.  It would be interesting to see if PFF is giving him a number of positive ratings on pass plays to even out his mistakes on his grading scale.  Last year was also a career year for him.  He graded out in the mid 60's the previous 3 seasons.

The point seems kind of moot because it looks like he's signing with the Jets.  

[SunsetBengal]

(06-17-2021, 08:50 PM)Whatever Wrote: He's better than Hart, but 41 pressures and 5 sacks allowed are not good pass pro numbers.  It would be interesting to see if PFF is giving him a number of positive ratings on pass plays to even out his mistakes on his grading scale.  Last year was also a career year for him.  He graded out in the mid 60's the previous 3 seasons.

The point seems kind of moot because it looks like he's signing with the Jets.  

So, he's not an "elite" pass protector.  So what, the bulk of his game is fantastic.  If you pair him with Carman on the Right Side, we instantly have an elite run blocking duo.  So, what about having an awesome pair to run behind?  It puts the guess work back into defending the offense, as in you're not passing 70+% of downs.  Dictating the flow takes all of the predictability away from the fantastic pass rushers, thus making the pass blocking easier when needed.

[Whatever]

(06-17-2021, 09:33 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So, he's not an "elite" pass protector.  So what, the bulk of his game is fantastic.  If you pair him with Carman on the Right Side, we instantly have an elite run blocking duo.  So, what about having an awesome pair to run behind?  It puts the guess work back into defending the offense, as in you're not passing 70+% of downs.  Dictating the flow takes all of the predictability away from the fantastic pass rushers, thus making the pass blocking easier when needed.

Pass protection is the bulk of almost any NFL OL's game anymore.  There were only 3 teams last year that ran more than they passed.  That's not to say run blocking isn't important, but the emphasis should be on what he's going to be doing the most, which is pass pro.  

Keep in mind that WFT brought John Matsko over from Carolina with Rivera and he runs a man-power blocking scheme.  Previously, they had Bill Callahan, who runs wide zone like Pollack does.  He's not going to be nearly as effective in our scheme as he was in WFT's.  You're probably looking at him backsliding to the 67.2-64.4 range he was at before Bill left, which is right about what Hart graded last year.  

Also keep in mind that Moses is a penalty machine.  He's finished 2nd in the league in penalties twice and top 15 4x since '15.  He's literally a meme among WFT fans for jumping the snap repeatedly because he's so slow getting out of his 3 point stance.  

He would be a good depth add, but there's no way I'd be penciling him in for a starting gig.

[schroomytunes]

Martinas Rankin(G/T) just released by the chiefs, might be worth a look in camp. Former 3rd rd pick out of Miss.St. Could be that swing guy in our system.

[Sled21]

(06-17-2021, 09:33 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So, he's not an "elite" pass protector.  So what, the bulk of his game is fantastic.  If you pair him with Carman on the Right Side, we instantly have an elite run blocking duo.  So, what about having an awesome pair to run behind?  It puts the guess work back into defending the offense, as in you're not passing 70+% of downs.  Dictating the flow takes all of the predictability away from the fantastic pass rushers, thus making the pass blocking easier when needed.

I don't want to sound like I'm championing Bobby Hart, because I am glad he is gone, but he had excellent run blocking grades as well. 
https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/news/bobby-hart-excelling-in-key-area

Quote:Hart is the 10th highest-graded offensive tackle (80.0) in run blocking according to Pro Football Focus. 

Am I against someone like Moses, definitely not, but I don't see him as a huge improvement. I thought we were trying to improve.

[*Synric*]

(06-18-2021, 05:29 AM)schroomytunes Wrote: Martinas Rankin(G/T)  just released by the chiefs, might be worth a look in camp. Former 3rd rd pick out of Miss.St. Could be that swing guy in our system.

Who is left for the Chiefs offensive tackle depth? Lucas Niang and Prince Tega Wanogho? 

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-17-2021, 08:53 AM)TJ528 Wrote: Problem is Racer, you and I both know the Bengals arent going to spend $15M on a Moses.  

The Bengals have an estimated $20M left over from free agency and they love carrying over extra money from season to season. 

They need to do something on the OL, but I have a feeling we'll hear company line come August, "we like the pieces we have in the building". 

Which is why I would release XSF to make it more like $12.  And maybe he would take $12 million, making the incremental cost only $9 million.  Again, I know nothing of the guy's character and I have no idea why he wanted out of Washington, but he would be a tremendous asset.  Much more valuable than another WR or LB.