Let's talk about the defense's lack of turnovers

[impactplaya]

(07-01-2021, 10:28 AM)TJ528 Wrote: Housh come on if you here this board talk about the defense though you're going to have like 5 or 6 Pro Bowlers from that defensive this year man.   I mean we've added like so many pieces to that side of the ball and spent $200M on the defense in the last 2 years.  We SHOULD have more than 1 star on that side of the ball. 

We have 1 star and it's Jesse Bates period!  People act like Hendrickson and Reader, and the whole DL is special.  I'd never put this line up against our line from 2010-2015.  The current DL wouldnt even hold that DL jock with Dunlap and Atkins.  

You don't need 5 Pro Bowlers on defense to reach the playoffs
The Browns have 2 in Garrett and Ward and still reached
The playoffs. And Ward was hurt part of the year

What the Bengals defense ,needs is more ways is to give the
Ball right back to JB and crew.
Its needs simply to  start flipping the field. 

The defense is upgraded with the health of Reader, a addition
Of a actual pass rusher that can generate more than 8 sacks
On the season. A DT whos strength is getting the QB.
The secondary depth is deeper than last year.
Letting Jackson walk is a good thing as he rarely made anykind
Of big plays. 
Adding Mike Hilton gives this defense a legit lockdown slot CB
And as a bonus he can put the QB on the ground and create fumbles

[fredtoast]

(07-01-2021, 10:28 AM)TJ528 Wrote:  People act like Hendrickson and Reader, and the whole DL is special.  

Actually people say that Hendrickson and Reader will be an improvement over what we had last year.

Anyone who says they won't be just doesn't know anything about football.

[TJ528]

(07-01-2021, 11:17 AM)impactplaya Wrote: You don't need 5 Pro Bowlers on defense to reach the playoffs
The Browns have 2 in Garrett and Ward and still reached
The playoffs. And Ward was hurt part of the year

What the Bengals defense ,needs is more ways is to give the
Ball right back to JB and crew.
Its needs simply to  start flipping the field. 

The defense is upgraded with the health of Reader, a addition
Of a actual pass rusher that can generate more than 8 sacks
On the season. A DT whos strength is getting the QB.
The secondary depth is deeper than last year.
Letting Jackson walk is a good thing as he rarely made anykind
Of big plays. 
Adding Mike Hilton gives this defense a legit lockdown slot CB
And as a bonus he can put the QB on the ground and create fumbles

Be like Missouri then, SHOW ME.  Show me these guys they've brought in are going to play better defense than the last 2 years. 

It's highly possible that they do play better but because this years schedule is more difficult they still ranked in the 20's in defense in the NFL.  

I also believe this defense with so many new pieces is going to need time to gel.  I think the first 4-6 weeks are going to be rough for the defense because they have to find chemistry together. 

You can put a bunch of good pieces together but if they don't play as a team then you're gonna have a crap defense.  

On top of that I have 0 faith in Lou's ability to coach up a defense.  Again, show me.  Until I see it, I think this defense finishes 15-20 in total defense agian. 

[TJ528]

(07-01-2021, 11:19 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually people say that Hendrickson and Reader will be an improvement over what we had last year.

Anyone who says they won't be just doesn't know anything about football.

Well i mean what isn't an improvement over what we had last year.  

Still Hendrickson couldnt hold Carlos' jock and Reader only wished he had as good of game as Geno.  

Geno's a fringe HOF.  Readers a good player.  

[impactplaya]

(07-01-2021, 11:26 AM)TJ528 Wrote: Be like Missouri then, SHOW ME.  Show me these guys they've brought in are going to play better defense than the last 2 years. 

It's highly possible that they do play better but because this years schedule is more difficult they still ranked in the 20's in defense in the NFL.  

I also believe this defense with so many new pieces is going to need time to gel.  I think the first 4-6 weeks are going to be rough for the defense because they have to find chemistry together. 

You can put a bunch of good pieces together but if they don't play as a team then you're gonna have a crap defense.  

On top of that I have 0 faith in Lou's ability to coach up a defense.  Again, show me.  Until I see it, I think this defense finishes 15-20 in total defense agian. 

The Cleveland Browns added up to 9 new faces on their
Defense this year. 
Trust me listening to the consensus from fans and national
Writers, nobody seems to be too concerned about their
Chemistry on defense this year. 
In fact the Browns have the 3rd best roster ranked among
NFL teams. 
Look if the Bengals brought back tbe same defense 
From 2020 you would still complain and gripe.
Its time to get past the Dunlaps and Atkins.
Whata point on dwelling what they did 6 8 years
Last time I looked they dissapeared in the playoffs
Too when we did go. 

[Bengalstripes9]

(06-29-2021, 08:27 PM)impactplaya Wrote: One aspect of the Bengals defense that in.which has constantly
Bothered me is inability of this defense to cause and create turnovers. I mean this was happening before Anarumo got here
I think Austin's defense was just as bad in not coming up with
Turnovers.
Show me a playoff team and I will.show you a defense that is
Opportunistic.
Its pretty cut and dry. When a defense causea fumbles and ints
It's another possesion for the offense.
The Bengals defense is downright pathetic when comes to
Getting the ball back for the offense.
Why is that?
Is the.art of dislodging the ball not practiced enough with Bengals coaches?
Do the Bengals on defense have a lack of players who.dont possess
That instinct to seperate ball.from.ball.carrier?
I know some NFL teams religiously practice creating turnovers.
Im.not.so.sure the Bengals do. Cause I.sure as heck.dont see it
On the field.
Very few forced and recovered fumbles. Very few ints.
The Bengals must be in the bottom 5 of teams regarding the turnover aspect on defense.

The reason for the lack of the turnovers is the lack of a pass rush. The two go hand in hand. Pressure forces mistakes. An elite pass rush will produce turnovers. Another reason why the offensive and defensive lines are so highly valued in my mind.

[fredtoast]

(07-01-2021, 11:28 AM)TJ528 Wrote: Well i mean what isn't an improvement over what we had last year.  

Still Hendrickson couldnt hold Carlos' jock and Reader only wished he had as good of game as Geno.  

Geno's a fringe HOF.  Readers a good player.  

Geno had ONE TACKLE for the entire season last year.

Hendrickson is an excellent player. The argument that he only had good productio because he played beside other good players is silly. The Saints were not the only team in the league that haf good D-linemen but I don't see players from all those other teams puttinf up 13 sacks. And why not argue that Dunlap onlt got sacks because he played with Geno?

[TJ528]

(07-01-2021, 12:12 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Geno had ONE TACKLE for the entire season last year.

Hendrickson is an excellent player. The argument that he only had good productio because he played beside other good players is silly. The Saints were not the only team in the league that haf good D-linemen but I don't see players from all those other teams puttinf up 13 sacks. And why not argue that Dunlap onlt got sacks because he played with Geno?

I would argue considering Geno would have double digit sacks per season and so would Carlos maybe it was someone else like Peko that took away a lot blocks for both of them to accomplish a lot of sacks during that time period. 

I'm not comparing Geno of 2020 to Hendrickson or Reader of 2021 or even 2020.  Geno in his prime would wipe either one of these guys butts off the football field.  Same with Dunlap.  

[impactplaya]

(07-01-2021, 12:09 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: The reason for the lack of the turnovers is the lack of a pass rush. The two go hand in hand. Pressure forces mistakes. An elite pass rush will produce turnovers. Another reason why the offensive and defensive lines are so highly valued in my mind.

Over the past few years Bengals were even porous at separating
The ball from ball carriers. Its a trend Ive seen.

[Bengalstripes9]

(07-01-2021, 12:27 PM)impactplaya Wrote: Over the past few years Bengals were even porous at separating
The ball from ball carriers. Its a trend Ive seen.

Definitely true. From what I can tell, the players that are good at creating pressure and getting sacks are the same players that are good at stripping the ball. We need those kind of players. Hopefully this draft added one or two of those kind of players.

[fredtoast]

(07-01-2021, 12:17 PM)TJ528 Wrote: I would argue considering Geno would have double digit sacks per season and so would Carlos maybe it was someone else like Peko that took away a lot blocks for both of them to accomplish a lot of sacks during that time period. 

Peko was here before Dunlap an Geno and no Bengal was putting up sack numbers like those two.

This proves my point about how good teammates are not the reason a player gets 13 sacks.

[XenoMorph]

(06-29-2021, 08:27 PM)impactplaya Wrote: One aspect of the Bengals defense that in.which has constantly
Bothered me is inability of this defense to cause and create turnovers. I mean this was happening before Anarumo got here
I think Austin's defense was just as bad in not coming up with
Turnovers.
Show me a playoff team and I will.show you a defense that is
Opportunistic.
Its pretty cut and dry. When a defense causea fumbles and ints
It's another possesion for the offense.
The Bengals defense is downright pathetic when comes to
Getting the ball back for the offense.
Why is that?
Is the.art of dislodging the ball not practiced enough with Bengals coaches?
Do the Bengals on defense have a lack of players who.dont possess
That instinct to seperate ball.from.ball.carrier?
I know some NFL teams religiously practice creating turnovers.
Im.not.so.sure the Bengals do. Cause I.sure as heck.dont see it
On the field.
Very few forced and recovered fumbles. Very few ints.
The Bengals must be in the bottom 5 of teams regarding the turnover aspect on defense.

man i miss madden with Deltha Oneal....   lol..   Had 6 INTs returned for TDs in 1 game lol   2005 we gave up some yard but had a lot of turnovers... Mainly vs the NFC north if memory holds

[impactplaya]

(07-01-2021, 03:21 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: man i miss madden with Deltha Oniel....   lol..   Had 6 INTs returned for TDs in 1 game lol   2005 we gave up some yard but had a lot of turnovers... Mainly vs the NFC north if memory holds

James and ONeal unlike our recent starting CB knew had to 
Secure INTs..heck even Keiwan Ratliff had more picks than WJ3
As a Bengal and he wasnt even a starter. 

[*ochocincos*]

(06-29-2021, 08:27 PM)impactplaya Wrote: One aspect of the Bengals defense that in.which has constantly
Bothered me is inability of this defense to cause and create turnovers. I mean this was happening before Anarumo got here
I think Austin's defense was just as bad in not coming up with
Turnovers.
Show me a playoff team and I will.show you a defense that is
Opportunistic.
Its pretty cut and dry. When a defense causea fumbles and ints
It's another possesion for the offense.
The Bengals defense is downright pathetic when comes to
Getting the ball back for the offense.
Why is that?
Is the.art of dislodging the ball not practiced enough with Bengals coaches?
Do the Bengals on defense have a lack of players who.dont possess
That instinct to seperate ball.from.ball.carrier?
I know some NFL teams religiously practice creating turnovers.
Im.not.so.sure the Bengals do. Cause I.sure as heck.dont see it
On the field.
Very few forced and recovered fumbles. Very few ints.
The Bengals must be in the bottom 5 of teams regarding the turnover aspect on defense.

Bengals' defensive turnovers by year the past 5 seasons:
2020 - 17 (T-27th)
2019 - 16 (T-28th)
2018 - 18 (21st)
2017 - 14 (T-30th)
2016 - 20 (T-19th)

So they don't get a lot of turnovers, but they've been consistently bad at it while Anarumo has been DC.