Could lack of chemistry be an issue for the defense ?

[lone bengal]

We’ve spent a ton of money on the defensive side of the ball and are expecting this unit to be vastly improved. Are we underestimating there lack of chemistry being an issue? I feel like there's so many new pieces we might struggle early on. Are starting three corners, Wayne’s, Hilton and Awuzie have never played together or had a single game rep in Lou’s defense. That’s not including Ali Apple or Ricardo Allen assuming they make the team. The defensive line has two new starters in Hendrickson and Ogunjobi and Reader has barely played. We’re also going to be relying heavily on rookies on the D-line to be key rotational pieces. There’s a good chance both are backup DE’s are rookies in Sample and Ossai with Shelvin getting reps inside. At linebacker Wilson is talented but it’s his 1st year starting I’m sure he’ll have some ups and downs. Davis- Gaither barley played his rookie year and will likely have a bigger role as are 3rd linebacker. I feel like this defense might struggle early on but get progressively better as the year goes on. We're going to get tested week 1 against the Vikings. Jefferson and Thielen vs. a secondary that's never played together then you got Dalvin Cook who had 1'557 rushing yards and 16 touchdowns.

[samhain]

It can't be any worse than last year. They had another huge re-tool, no real physical preseason, then a rash of injuries that forced them into bringing in even more new players, and this time scrubs as opposed to high-end FAs.

I think that Bates and Bell will provide solid leadership for the entire unit. I also believe Wilson will become another stalwart in his second year. The d-line might take some time, but let's not pretend they weren't awful last year. I think the depth is much better this time around, and there's enough talent in the starting front 4 to hold serve before they get used to playing together.

It will be tough for them to find a way to be worse than last year. My concern is less about talent and more about the coordinator. I'm still erring on the side of Lou being out of his depth. The players are in place for them to get it done. I'm not so sure about the coaching.

[lone bengal]

(07-05-2021, 11:36 AM)Deacon Wrote: That's what minicamps, camp, and preseason are for. I get the concern, but IMO, that's what they're getting paid for. We need to stop giving this team excuses, and especially this coaching staff. Every team in the NFL brings in new personnel in the offseason. Rosters change.

If they fail to gel as a defensive unit, that's on the coaches. Getting better halfway through the year when they're already 5-6 games in the hole will be entirely unacceptable. 

I hear you it's definitely put up or shut up time for this coaching staff no argument there, the record speaks for itself. 

[lone bengal]

(07-05-2021, 11:51 AM)samhain Wrote: It can't be any worse than last year. They had another huge re-tool, no real physical preseason, then a rash of injuries that forced them into bringing in even more new players, and this time scrubs as opposed to high-end FAs.

I think that Bates and Bell will provide solid leadership for the entire unit. I also believe Wilson will become another stalwart in his second year. The d-line might take some time, but let's not pretend they weren't awful last year. I think the depth is much better this time around, and there's enough talent in the starting front 4 to hold serve before they get used to playing together.

It will be tough for them to find a way to be worse than last year. My concern is less about talent and more about the coordinator. I'm still erring on the side of Lou being out of his depth. The players are in place for them to get it done. I'm not so sure about the coaching.

Agree with you on Lou, we keep hearing that he’s getting players that fit “ his scheme “. I have no idea what his scheme is or if it works because he’s never been a DC or had a proven track record of success same goes for Taylor.

[impactplaya]

I think the chemistry thing might be more of a back 7 thing than the whole 11. I saw communication issues with the CBs and S laat
Year. Blown coverages.letting X WRs run down the middle of the secondary free uncovered.

What I.find more concerning is the defense under LA cannot get a crucial stop when the game is on the line.
Cleveland and Philly should have been wins lasr year.
Indy should have been a win.
Thats 7 and 9 right there. But the defense couldnt seal it.

[GreenCornBengal]

(07-05-2021, 12:43 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I think the chemistry thing might be more of a back 7 thing than the whole 11. I saw communication issues with the CBs and S laat
Year. Blown coverages.letting X WRs run down the middle of the secondary free uncovered.

What I.find more concerning is the defense under LA cannot get a crucial stop when the game is on the line.
Cleveland and Philly should have been wins lasr year.
Indy should have been a win.
Thats 7 and 9 right there. But the defense couldnt seal it.

I remember we held the Browns out of the end zone at the 1 and our offense gave it right back to them. Every time the defense showed any type of grit the other side of the ball faltered. “Complimentary football” as they say is not something we were very good at last year. One side would play well, the other would stink. Ravens game, defense put in a valiant effort early but Joey B and crew could go nowhere.

[impactplaya]

(07-05-2021, 01:10 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I remember we held the Browns out of the end zone at the 1 and our offense gave it right back to them. Every time the defense showed any type of grit the other side of the ball faltered. “Complimentary football” as they say is not something we were very good at last year. One side would play well, the other would stink. Ravens game, defense put in a valiant effort early but Joey B and crew could go nowhere.

Lap is always stressing that.

[lone bengal]

(07-05-2021, 12:43 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I think the chemistry thing might be more of a back 7 thing than the whole 11. I saw communication issues with the CBs and S laat
Year. Blown coverages.letting X WRs run down the middle of the secondary free uncovered.

What I.find more concerning is the defense under LA cannot get a crucial stop when the game is on the line.
Cleveland and Philly should have been wins lasr year.
Indy should have been a win.
Thats 7 and 9 right there. But the defense couldnt seal it.

Agree the 2nd Cleveland game was a joke. We took a 34-31 lead after scoring a td with a minute left. Cleveland got the ball back with zero timeouts and ending up winning the game on a 24 yard touchdown we couldn’t even play prevent defense and force overtime.

[CarolinaBengalFanGuy]

Well I thought a lack of chemistry would be an issue for the Tampa Bay Bucs especially in a shortened offseason but they won the whole thing.

I think health will be the biggest issue for this team and has been for a long while now. Plus being healthy will help with chemistry when you’re not scrambling to set a depth chart every week to deal with new injuries.

[*Go Cards*]

Team chemistry is only really developed on the field. A little in practice and then much more so in games.

It comes from having success as a unit and its not something that can be forced imo.

Just think they have to be much better than last year regardless per how bad they were.

Much of the team needs to develop chemistry too, especially O-line. But luckily the rookie Chase already has it with Burrow and that helps.

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-05-2021, 01:10 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: I remember we held the Browns out of the end zone at the 1 and our offense gave it right back to them. Every time the defense showed any type of grit the other side of the ball faltered. “Complimentary football” as they say is not something we were very good at last year. One side would play well, the other would stink. Ravens game, defense put in a valiant effort early but Joey B and crew could go nowhere.

Dead on.  The Ravens games were the worst offensive outputs I have seen in ages.  

What makes me most OPTIMISTIC about the defense is the depth and talent up front:  Reader, Ogunjobi, Hendrickson, Hubbard, and then you have some speed off the edge with Ossai.

What makes me the most PESSIMISTIC is the LB corps.  I love what I saw in Wilson, but Pratt regressed and I could see a huge hole in nickel when Pratt is asked to cover, unless he gets back on track and shows why they drafted him.  STILL hoping for a veteran LB to be signed that still has speed to start over Pratt.  

[Au165]

(07-06-2021, 10:02 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Dead on.  The Ravens games were the worst offensive outputs I have seen in ages.  

What makes me most OPTIMISTIC about the defense is the depth and talent up front:  Reader, Ogunjobi, Hendrickson, Hubbard, and then you have some speed off the edge with Ossai.

What makes me the most PESSIMISTIC is the LB corps.  I love what I saw in Wilson, but Pratt regressed and I could see a huge hole in nickel when Pratt is asked to cover, unless he gets back on track and shows why they drafted him.  STILL hoping for a veteran LB to be signed that still has speed to start over Pratt.  

The good news is off ball LB is still the least impactful position on a defense, so if there is a place to be weak at it's LB. That said, the LB crew isn't abysmal like we have seen in the past and somewhere around average is good enough to not really hurt the defense as a whole. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-06-2021, 11:08 AM)Au165 Wrote: The good news is off ball LB is still the least impactful position on a defense, so if there is a place to be weak at it's LB. That said, the LB crew isn't abysmal like we have seen in the past and somewhere around average is good enough to not really hurt the defense as a whole. 

True.  Like they have said about the offensive line having "No Donkeys"...no one glaring weakness.  I think Wilson, ADG, Pratt, and Bailey all have more athleticism than Bynes, but not the experience.  

With an improved line, they could be the group that appears to take the greatest step.  I don't care who you are at LB, if your front four suck you aren't going to look very impressive.  

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

I think the bigger issue for this D is the lack of talent/playmakers. Other than Bates and maybe Reader I don't see many dominant players. They aren't necessarily bad players but there seems to be a lack of talent that would keep opposition Offensive Co-ordinators up at night.

[*Nately120*]

If any aspect of our team lacks chemistry we should fire ZT for giving the team days off at the first opportunity.

[*ochocincos*]

(07-12-2021, 12:00 PM)TJHoushmandzadeh Wrote: I think the bigger issue for this D is the lack of talent/playmakers. Other than Bates and maybe Reader I don't see many dominant players. They aren't necessarily bad players but there seems to be a lack of talent that would keep opposition Offensive Co-ordinators up at night.

The Bengals really haven't gotten many defensive turnovers in recent years.

The most sacks a single player had last year was 5.5 (17 for whole team).
The most INTs a player had last year was 3 (11 for whole team).
The most FFs a player had last year was 3 (10 for whole team). Only 6 of those FFs across the whole team were recovered by the defense.

The Bengals really lack guys that make splash plays.
But perhaps that changes with Hendrickson, Ogunjobi, and Ossai added.

[TJ528]

(07-05-2021, 11:36 AM)Deacon Wrote: That's what minicamps, camp, and preseason are for. I get the concern, but IMO, that's what they're getting paid for. We need to stop giving this team excuses, and especially this coaching staff. Every team in the NFL brings in new personnel in the offseason. Rosters change.

If they fail to gel as a defensive unit, that's on the coaches. Getting better halfway through the year when they're already 5-6 games in the hole will be entirely unacceptable. 

If you truly believe you can gel in minicamps, camp, and preseason then you don't know football teams mentality.  Until that team is on the field the CB who's never played with a safety before may know a dude off the field but until that Safety is in the right spot multiple times the CB isnt going to trust him.   

It takes time for a team to gel.  Like I truly believe you arent gonna throw 5 OL that have never played together before and they gel in minicamp, camps and the pre-season.

How often does the whole team play together in the preseason?  Now that there's 3 games there's less time for them to gel in the preseason.  

Just my opinion but you see teams change players and they're better players but the teams worse because they didnt gel. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-13-2021, 11:54 AM)TJ528 Wrote: If you truly believe you can gel in minicamps, camp, and preseason then you don't know football teams mentality.  Until that team is on the field the CB who's never played with a safety before may know a dude off the field but until that Safety is in the right spot multiple times the CB isnt going to trust him.   

It takes time for a team to gel.  Like I truly believe you arent gonna throw 5 OL that have never played together before and they gel in minicamp, camps and the pre-season.

How often does the whole team play together in the preseason?  Now that there's 3 games there's less time for them to gel in the preseason.  

Just my opinion but you see teams change players and they're better players but the teams worse because they didnt gel. 

That's exactly when it happens. They learn the scheme in meetings, walk through it by position group(s) + run it at real speed in team drills, then get reps/experience in the preseason (for those that weren't here or played together). During the season is when you want the muscle memory to take over and you just "do it". Things that were done wrong are corrected in films the monday after the game. Then in practice is when they focus on getting those movements that were wrong the previous week, right for the next week. 

[TJ528]

(07-13-2021, 05:07 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: That's exactly when it happens. They learn the scheme in meetings, walk through it by position group(s) + run it at real speed in team drills, then get reps/experience in the preseason (for those that weren't here or played together). During the season is when you want the muscle memory to take over and you just "do it". Things that were done wrong are corrected in films the monday after the game. Then in practice is when they focus on getting those movements that were wrong the previous week, right for the next week. 

okay so we're talking about gelling as a unit.  Would you say last years OL ever gelled as a unit after so many injuries? 

I mean most of them spent time in training camp together.  They practiced together in training camp because word out of camp was that Zac and Turner were mix and matching OL together and then eventually put the starting OL out there to start the season. 

Again, Turner was a SHIT coach hired by a coach who evidently doesn't know a quality coach unless it bit him on the ass. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-13-2021, 05:35 PM)TJ528 Wrote: okay so we're talking about gelling as a unit.  Would you say last years OL ever gelled as a unit after so many injuries? 

I mean most of them spent time in training camp together.  They practiced together in training camp because word out of camp was that Zac and Turner were mix and matching OL together and then eventually put the starting OL out there to start the season. 

Again, Turner was a SHIT coach hired by a coach who evidently doesn't know a quality coach unless it bit him on the ass. 

If you have a lack of talent and/or a lack of decent coaching, gelling is pretty much a non-starter.