Bengals Vs. Browns 2004. This could be our offense

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-29-2021, 07:38 PM)jason Wrote: To prove your point... Joe Mixon was called undoubtedly more talented than Rudi in the post above yours. I for one have my doubts that he is.

Eh, I love Rudi but Mixon is clearly more talented. Mixon is faster, better burst, bigger, much better hands and can run routes.

Rudi was a tough damn runner though with a great stiff arm and knew how to find holes behind a GREAT OFFENSIVE LINE.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-30-2021, 09:07 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Looking back, here is the starting offensive line for the 2005 season:

Levi Jones, 3rd season, 10th overall pick
Eric Steinbach, 2nd season, 33rd overall pick
Richie Braham, 11th season, 76th overall pick
Bobbie Williams, 4th season, 66th overall pick
Willie Anderson, 9th season, 10th overall pick

Now, the obvious stud on that line is Willie Anderson, and Riley Reiff, although also a first round pick, is not a viable comparator to Willie.  Reiff is a solid veteran presence at a very important position, though.  I view him as a bit of the Bobbie Williams of the line.  A solid veteran that was signed in FA.

Levi Jones was a very good LT for several years before an odd disappearing act.  Jonah could be every bit as good as Levi, if he can stay healthy.

The LG position, with Steinbach, has to look better than anything we have right now.  Everyone seems to like Spain, but he didn't grade out near Steinbach's consistent performances.  If you compare Carman to Steinbach, though he will be playing the other side, he was also a 2nd round pick and has a ton of upside.  I think Carman is going to be a real find and I liked him a lot when I found he played through that herniated disc to try and win a National Championship, rather than opt for surgery and be ready for the combine/Pro Days.  There is no doubt he is bigger and stronger than Steinbach.

At Center, we have the warrior vet known as Richie Braham.  Hopkins is a solid, slightly above average center, but Braham was a tough leader in the middle.

RG was the previously mentioned Bobbie Williams who was big, road-grading veteran that was a great addition to the line.  Here is to hoping Carman can be that addition.  

Good comparisons looking at every position. Jonah could definitely be as good as Levi, Jonah is a great technician and can both
run and pass block well. Health is the question with Jonah. Between Spain and XSF I think we will be much better this year at LG
but not near the pull blocker Steinbach was, amazing pull blocking Guard in the run game. Run blocking, my biggest question.

Hop is a very good pass blocker, not a good run blocker. Run blocking, my biggest question. Braham was great at both.

Now Jackson Carman and Bobbie Williams are similar at RG. Carman could be that guy, I like, he can maul like Bobbie.

Reiff is a great add, but there haven't been many RT's as good as Willie ever. 

Plus Reiff isn't a very good run blocker like Willie was. Yep, run blocking is the deal on this team. Hope Pollack can coach them 
up or use the RB's in the passing game as an extension of the run game.

[Essex Johnson]

(07-30-2021, 09:07 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Looking back, here is the starting offensive line for the 2005 season:

Levi Jones, 3rd season, 10th overall pick
Eric Steinbach, 2nd season, 33rd overall pick
Richie Braham, 11th season, 76th overall pick
Bobbie Williams, 4th season, 66th overall pick
Willie Anderson, 9th season, 10th overall pick

Now, the obvious stud on that line is Willie Anderson, and Riley Reiff, although also a first round pick, is not a viable comparator to Willie.  Reiff is a solid veteran presence at a very important position, though.  I view him as a bit of the Bobbie Williams of the line.  A solid veteran that was signed in FA.

Levi Jones was a very good LT for several years before an odd disappearing act.  Jonah could be every bit as good as Levi, if he can stay healthy.

The LG position, with Steinbach, has to look better than anything we have right now.  Everyone seems to like Spain, but he didn't grade out near Steinbach's consistent performances.  If you compare Carman to Steinbach, though he will be playing the other side, he was also a 2nd round pick and has a ton of upside.  I think Carman is going to be a real find and I liked him a lot when I found he played through that herniated disc to try and win a National Championship, rather than opt for surgery and be ready for the combine/Pro Days.  There is no doubt he is bigger and stronger than Steinbach.

At Center, we have the warrior vet known as Richie Braham.  Hopkins is a solid, slightly above average center, but Braham was a tough leader in the middle.

RG was the previously mentioned Bobbie Williams who was big, road-grading veteran that was a great addition to the line.  Here is to hoping Carman can be that addition.  

No doubt 2005 was probably the best line we had under center for the last 3 QBs..  I think 2015 which was weaker but very successful might give us a bit more hope with this line

 Reiff 30 plus vet, similar to Whit:  advantage Whit but Reiff is solid
Hopkins vet vs Bodine rookie:  Big advantage to Hopkins
Spain vet vs Boling vet:  advantage Boling but hoping Spain can return to Buffalo form level
Smith 6th year vs Williams 3rd year  Smith was up and down performance and injuries.. Williams same but he is younger
Zeitler vs ??  This is probably the biggest advantage with each comparison.

So if Pollack is that much of an upgrade as our line coach, we should see marked improvement with this line and with the offense weapons we have, it gives us hope when we look back at what we did in 2015 

The key to duplicate 2015 line is stay healthy.. only Smith missed any games and that was just 2 of them.  

[Shake n Blake]

(07-29-2021, 03:03 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Sometimes easy to forget how pretty Palmer's deep ball was.

I think sometimes people confuse "pretty" with "effective".

Palmer's deep ball stats weren't any better than Dalton's. He really could spin the ball and make it pretty though.

[EatonFan]

(07-29-2021, 03:03 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Sometimes easy to forget how pretty Palmer's deep ball was.

True Dat

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-30-2021, 01:04 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Good comparisons looking at every position. Jonah could definitely be as good as Levi, Jonah is a great technician and can both
run and pass block well. Health is the question with Jonah. Between Spain and XSF I think we will be much better this year at LG
but not near the pull blocker Steinbach was, amazing pull blocking Guard in the run game. Run blocking, my biggest question.

Hop is a very good pass blocker, not a good run blocker. Run blocking, my biggest question. Braham was great at both.

Now Jackson Carman and Bobbie Williams are similar at RG. Carman could be that guy, I like, he can maul like Bobbie.

Reiff is a great add, but there haven't been many RT's as good as Willie ever. 

Plus Reiff isn't a very good run blocker like Willie was. Yep, run blocking is the deal on this team. Hope Pollack can coach them 
up or use the RB's in the passing game as an extension of the run game.

Bringing up Pollack with all the rushing questions...I remembered that Mixon averaged 5 ypc under Pollack and that line wasn't going to the HOF tomorrow.  Very encouraging!

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-31-2021, 08:28 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Bringing up Pollack with all the rushing questions...I remembered that Mixon averaged 5 ypc under Pollack and that line wasn't going to the HOF tomorrow.  Very encouraging!

Pollack is the X-Factor. Mixon DID have his best season with him as the OL coach...

And I think this OL is much more talented than that one was. But they are more pass protection oriented which is great for Burrow.

[*jason*]

(07-30-2021, 12:39 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Eh, I love Rudi but Mixon is clearly more talented. Mixon is faster, better burst, bigger, much better hands and can run routes.

Rudi was a tough damn runner though with a great stiff arm and knew how to find holes behind a GREAT OFFENSIVE LINE.

Mixon is better than Rudi in every way except gaining yards on the ground, staying healthy, and getting into the end zone. I like Joe Mixon's fight and attitude, but a lot of excuses get made for his sorta ho hum career to this point.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-31-2021, 02:40 PM)jason Wrote: Mixon is better than Rudi in every way except gaining yards on the ground, staying healthy, and getting into the end zone. I like Joe Mixon's fight and attitude, but a lot of excuses get made for his sorta ho hum career to this point.

True enough, but I bet Rudi wouldn't of had those yards on the ground or got into the end zone near as much behind Mixon's OL.

[*jason*]

(07-31-2021, 02:42 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: True enough, but I bet Rudi wouldn't of had those yards on the ground or got into the end zone near as much behind Mixon's OL.

Probably a safe bet.

[Dr.Z]

(07-31-2021, 02:40 PM)jason Wrote: Mixon is better than Rudi in every way except gaining yards on the ground, staying healthy, and getting into the end zone. I like Joe Mixon's fight and attitude, but a lot of excuses get made for his sorta ho hum career to this point.

Love Rudi. He’s the coolest Bengals player I’ve met ; only second to Willie. But I agree that Mixon is more talented, at least measurably, and he’s certainly been held back by injury and supporting cast. I admittedly , while liking and rooting for him, underestimated his abilities, and he would just keep producing and proving my inclinations wrong. Perhaps I am doing that now, but I’ve felt Mixon’s ceiling is crazy high with a few of those aforementioned variables getting worked out.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-31-2021, 03:48 PM)Dr.Z Wrote: Love Rudi.  He’s the coolest Bengals player I’ve met ; only second to Willie.   But I agree that Mixon is more talented, at least measurably, and he’s certainly been held back by injury and supporting cast.   I admittedly , while liking and rooting for him, underestimated his abilities, and he would just keep producing and proving my inclinations wrong.  Perhaps I am doing that now, but I’ve felt Mixon’s ceiling is crazy high with a few of those aforementioned variables getting worked out.

If Pollack can get these guys to run block somewhat like that '04-'06 OL look out. Mixon could lead the league in rushing...

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-01-2021, 01:33 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: If Pollack can get these guys to run block somewhat like that '04-'06 OL look out. Mixon could lead the league in rushing...

With Mixon on the field more for third downs, I could see him competing for all-purpose yards as well, but CMC is going to be tough to catch there.  

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-01-2021, 02:05 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: With Mixon on the field more for third downs, I could see him competing for all-purpose yards as well, but CMC is going to be tough to catch there.  

I just think Mixon hasn't been used in that role cause Gio was such a good pass blocker. One of the best in the league.

Mixon is alright, but not on Gio's level. Evans could be used on 3rd downs as he is a good pass blocker. 

Thing is, I don't know if he is any better than Mixon who was also good at picking up the blitz in college.

The 2 things Mixon needs to show is the ability to pick up the blitz consistently and be able to finish long runs in the endzone.

If he can show these things he becomes elite but it will have to be with the help of a good run blocking OL.

Mixon needs to be used more in the passing game to get all those all-purpose yards. It is on Taylor and Burrow there.

[Dr.Z]

(08-01-2021, 02:18 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I just think Mixon hasn't been used in that role cause Gio was such a good pass blocker. One of the best in the league.

Mixon is alright, but not on Gio's level. Evans could be used on 3rd downs as he is a good pass blocker. 

Thing is, I don't know if he is any better than Mixon who was also good at picking up the blitz in college.

The 2 things Mixon needs to show is the ability to pick up the blitz consistently and be able to finish long runs in the endzone.

If he can show these things he becomes elite but it will have to be with the help of a good run blocking OL.

Mixon needs to be used more in the passing game to get all those all-purpose yards. It is on Taylor and Burrow there.

Completely agree on all points.