Jackson Carman At Bottom Of Depth Chart

[tms]

(08-09-2021, 11:16 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I will remember you said this when Carman ends up being our best Guard.

Go ahead! I'd be the happiest dude on the block! I really don't care whether I'm right or wrong about players. It's more about what the team said they would do, what they ended up doing, how it's playing out now, and who's bound to pay the price for it down the road.

For example, I hate the fact that they brought back Michael Jordan. Not because I don't like him as a player or as a man. Not because I don't understand that people can make mistakes. Not because I don't believe that they deserve second chances. I just think he's being put in a position to fail with the Bengals (just like Carman, albeit in a different way). If he makes another boo-boo that results in another Burrow injury (or if Carman doesn't outperform Humphrey, Jenkins, Eichenberg, Little, Christensen, Davis, Cleveland, etc.) it will take on a life of its own and give us another ghost to be haunted by- as if we didn't have enough already. The risk/reward ratio is far too high imo.

So no, I don't like that. lol  

[fredtoast]

(08-09-2021, 11:10 PM)tms Wrote:  We went off the board in R2 for... god knows knows what reason.

How can you say that we "went off the board" when we selected Carman pretty much exactly where all the "experts" had him slotted?

Draft Network, CBSSports, ProFootballFocus all had him in the top 50.  Almost all the others I find have him listed a second round pick.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-09-2021, 02:30 AM)tms Wrote: Don't mind me, I gotta toot my own horn here (insofar as that can be done in Week 2 of TC)...

I'm a massive draftnik and I was Team Penei from the start. Just took so much abuse and heard countless strange arguments for Chase that didn't make any sense to me then, and make even less sense to me now (e.g. he'll protect Burrow by... running go routes).

Mind you, I'm fully on board with Ja'Marr now. He's our guy and I'm behind him all the way. I just have to confess that I didn't want him then. In fact, I preferred TMJ. I thought Marshall had a skillset that was easily in the same category and more transferable to the pros (e.g. not as reliant on his hands to beat the press); his athleticism was absolutely comparable; he's bigger, runs like a deer, played the F and the X in Brady's offense; he was even on the field last year (for part of it anyway); and you wouldn't have to mortgage the Top 5 farm to get him. In the end we had a chance to land Sewell and Marshall- but we didn't. So be it.

Turns out Sewell is having a fantastic camp in Detroit. Beyond his skills, he's bringing the kind of charisma, energy and joy that I thought we sorely lacked up front with our team (and still do). He's having good days and bad days, of course, he's in an ongoing war with Okwara, but he's loving it. And he's cemented himself as the Lions' starting RT, on a line that is actually quite strong. I mean, their offense lacks weapons and they're in the midst of an extensive rebuild in Detroit. But with that kind of a foundation inside, I figure they're bound to surprise. Good for them.

More importantly, Marshall looks super in Carolina. Whatever injury plagued him pre-draft has clearly been worked out. He's already drawn favorable comps to Muhsin Muhammad, been pegged to start in the slot, and taken some WR2 reps over the past few days in place of Robby Anderson. In other words, in two weeks he's already shown the aptitude to transition seamlessly from inside to outside. It helps that he has Brady in Carolina with him, don't get me wrong, but what a force he could yet become.

Of course, we haven't played a game yet lol. That much is true. And we didn't know whether Marshall was going to be there at 38, forget about 46. That much is also true. But as of right now, it's clear that the Sewell/Marshall combo would be much preferred to our JC pennies (sorry, I had to lol). Chase looks great to me, he's obviously a major asset. The Chase/Sewell debate is done, and I lost. I can live with it. But Pollack's had to spend weeks playing games to motivate Carman... that is a much bigger issue. I'm not gonna mince words here: it is f cringeworthy. At a bare minimum it suggests that dude does not have the the right focus for this league, let alone for an R2. No coach should have to motivate their prized draft picks in camp. This is not Triple-A; this is a major league team.

I mean, we shouldn't be wasting our time bringing him up to speed because the Bengals (of all teams) were in no position to do that after last year's debacle. We were in no position to draft a 'project', neither in terms of skillset nor attitude. He was sold to the public as a diamond in the rough plug & play National Champ, despite the feelings of the draft community. And what do you know, to this point he's shown zilch. In fact, he's already been supplanted on the depth chart by the OT we drafted two rounds later. It's abominable, it's unacceptable. And the only solace I can take from this nightmare is the fact that my dudes have been lighting it up in Detroit and Charlotte, respectively lol. So that's what I'ma do.

Meanwhile, Carman needs to wake up and smell the coffee. And if he doesn't start in Week 1, somebody needs to pay the price. There needs to be accountability for that kind of error. Whoever was responsible for going off the board at 46- when it was both unnecessary and unwise for this team to do so- needs to face the consequences. I don't want to hear their voice in the war room again.

(08-09-2021, 11:56 PM)tms Wrote: Go ahead! I'd be the happiest dude on the block! I really don't care whether I'm right or wrong about players. It's more about what the team said they would do, what they ended up doing, how it's playing out now, and who's bound to pay the price for it down the road.

For example, I hate the fact that they brought back Michael Jordan. Not because I don't like him as a player or as a man. Not because I don't understand that people can make mistakes. Not because I don't believe that they deserve second chances. I just think he's being put in a position to fail with the Bengals (just like Carman, albeit in a different way). If he makes another boo-boo that results in another Burrow injury (or if Carman doesn't outperform Humphrey, Jenkins, Eichenberg, Little, Christensen, Davis, Cleveland, etc.) it will take on a life of its own and give us another ghost to be haunted by- as if we didn't have enough already. The risk/reward ratio is far too high imo.

So no, I don't like that. lol  

Weird that someone who doesn’t care about being right wrote a 37 paragraph post “tooting his own horn”

[fredtoast]

(08-09-2021, 11:42 PM)tms Wrote:  Nobody's anointed a starter on draft day.

Tell this guy who insisted that that is exactly what the Bengals did with Carman

(08-09-2021, 11:46 AM)tms Wrote:  we were promised somebody who would be good enough and somebody who would be slotted in there right now.

Nobody was talking about a backup IOL at his presser. 

we were promised a plug and play, 

Come back when you can get your story straight.

[tms]

(08-10-2021, 12:07 AM)fredtoast Wrote: How can you say that we "went off the board" when we selected Carman pretty much exactly where all the "experts" had him slotted?

Draft Network, CBSSports, ProFootballFocus all had him in the top 50.  Almost all the others I find have him listed a second round pick.

i can say whatever I want because I make everything up.

Luckily, I kept track of 11 mocks during the draft process. Carman's final average was 57.3 (which is R2-3 according to most measures). He generally fell between 60 and 80 (PFF 83, TDN Harris 72, PFN Cummings 49, McShay and CBS Wilson didn't have him in the first two rounds at all, etc.. but Walter Football provided the outlier by slotting him at 17). 

Regardless, there were many IOLs with a higher mean across mocks and solid R2 grades that were still there at 46. We "knew better". 

[fredtoast]

(08-10-2021, 12:15 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Weird that someone who doesn’t care about being right wrote a 37 paragraph post “tooting his own horn”

Exactly.

From this......"And the only solace I can take from this nightmare is the fact that my dudes have been lighting it up in Detroit and Charlotte, respectively lol. So that's what I'ma do."


To this.........."I really don't care whether I'm right or wrong about players"


He can't write two lines without contradicting himself.

[Joelist]

The starters at Guard are XSF and Spain. Last season it was XSF and MJ and when XSF went out we had Redmond and MJ which was disastrous.

[tms]

(08-10-2021, 12:21 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Tell this guy who insisted that that is exactly what the Bengals did with Carman


Come back when you can get your story straight.

I assume the world moves too fast for you. But good luck in the future.

[Frank Booth]

(08-10-2021, 12:27 AM)tms Wrote: I assume the world moves too fast for you. But good luck in the future.

I have a lawyer friend and he does similar stuff to Fred.

I just assume it’s practice for when they have to handle a case for a person who’s clearly guilty

[fredtoast]

(08-10-2021, 12:25 AM)tms Wrote:  PFF 83

Got a link for that.

Everything I see from PFF has him ranked as a second round pick around #50.

[fredtoast]

(08-10-2021, 12:27 AM)tms Wrote: I assume the world moves too fast for you. But good luck in the future.

That is exactly what people say when they can't dispute the facts I write.

[fredtoast]

(08-09-2021, 11:42 PM)tms Wrote: The above is a straw man, tho. You need to know that. 

No it isn't.

You need to look up the definition of "straw man".

I am not twisting your words to mean something different.  I amusing direct quotes.

[fredtoast]

(08-09-2021, 11:42 PM)tms Wrote:  And again, I could care less how long it took DERRICK HENRY to get on the field. It has as much to do with what we're talking about as comparing Jackson Carman to Javonte Williams: that is, not at all. Let's stay on topic.

Actually Derrick henry is a perfect example of how your logic fails.

You claim that the only two possible reasons that a plyer can not win a starting job are "Lack of motivation" or not being good enough to play ion the NFL.

So which was it with Henry, Diggs, and Adams?  Did they lack motivation or were they not good enough players to make it in the NFL.

The fact is that there are lots of GREAT NFL players who don't win a starting job opening day of their rookie season.  So it is ridiculous for you to trash Carman at this point.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-10-2021, 12:34 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Got a link for that.

Everything I see from PFF has him ranked as a second round pick around #50.

PFF had Carman at 48 on their board.


JACKSON CARMAN, CLEMSON

PFF BIG BOARD RANK: 48

Carman has legit movement skills for a 320-pound tackle. He’s still a bit of a work in progress in pass protection — he only earned a 77.1 pass-block grade last year — but he’s only a true junior with two years of starting experience.


https://www.pff.com/news/draft-2021-nfl-draft-offensive-tackle-rankings

[fredtoast]

(08-09-2021, 11:46 AM)tms Wrote: I don't hear such an emphasis being placed on "earning" it in... Denver with Meinerz,

Maybe you need to clean you ears so you can hear better

“I think Meinerz first has to show that it needs to be a competition," Fangio said on Wednesday after Day 1 of camp. Message received loud and clear. This isn't a competition. Yet. It's on Meinerz to actually create a position battle with his play on the field. 

[DYT_Bengal]

Fate has always bitten Bengals in the behind when trading down - Tevin Jenkins, Liam Eichenberg, Walker little smh. I’m holding out hope for Jackson, will be interesting to see how the hit rate on those three turn out.

[SladeX]

If a 2nd round pick was never going to be the answer at G this year, then the team should have picked up one of the great G available in FA this year, period! At all costs!!

[fredtoast]

(08-10-2021, 01:54 AM)willieFANderson Wrote: Fate has always bitten Bengals in the behind when trading down - Tevin Jenkins, Liam Eichenberg, Walker little smh. I’m holding out hope for Jackson, will be interesting to see how the hit rate on those three turn out.

We got one of our best O-linemen ever (Zeitler) after trading down

[Sled21]

(08-10-2021, 01:54 AM)willieFANderson Wrote: Fate has always bitten Bengals in the behind when trading down - Tevin Jenkins, Liam Eichenberg, Walker little smh. I’m holding out hope for Jackson, will be interesting to see how the hit rate on those three turn out.

This tradedown may well be epic....

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(08-10-2021, 01:54 AM)willieFANderson Wrote: Fate has always bitten Bengals in the behind when trading down - Tevin Jenkins, Liam Eichenberg, Walker little smh. I’m holding out hope for Jackson, will be interesting to see how the hit rate on those three turn out.

Jenkins: Injured and severely-overmatched at LT (if they played Jenkins at RT, then sure, but he's tons too-stiff to be an NFL LT, IMO)
Eichenberg: Has had a rough camp and is being moved to G. So rough, in fact, that 2015 UDFA Jesse Davis (who has been a poor starter for the past 4 seasons) is going to be starting at RT.
Little: While he is doing well, just imagine how much people would've freaked out if he was taken in the 2nd; the entire world had him mocked in the 3rd or later and EVERYONE on here was claiming it was a super-reach.

You know what the above (and Carman) shows? We all know jack-squat and we CAN'T know anything definitively, until week 1.

Just wait until we start playing for real, before any judgements are made, FFS; don't forget, John Ross had a fantastic preseason in 2018 and where is he now?