Joe Burrow's stats from last year...

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-06-2021, 02:41 PM)TJ528 Wrote: Frank, I usually agree with most of what you say, however EVERYTHING you posted in here is full of poo.  

Zac Taylor was hired in 2019 and was working on his staff while he was a QB of the Rams. 

Some will say he had to put together his staff.  Ask any coach who's up for becoming a head coach and they'll tell you they have a list of candidates already made out ready to go.  If Zac didn't have that then maybe he's not NFL prepared.  

I'll hold the 2019 and 2020 teams against him because he's the one who hired the coaches that coached those players.  You hire a DC who's known for wanting to use Zone defense but you have personnel that fit mostly a man defense.  Yea that's gonna work every time especially when that DC doesn't know how to adapt his defense.  

You hire a crap OL coach.  Zac was given the option to keep Pollack by the front office but Zac said no he wanted to bring in his own guy, Jim Turner.  Yea we see what kind of coaching eye for talent Zac has there.  

There is no way in hell if Zac Taylor isn't more than 9-7 this year that he should return to Cincinnati.  If you truly believe he should be given 1 more year no matter what happens this year, then you must be related to him in some way. 

TJ, spot on.

[TJ528]

(08-06-2021, 02:47 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I hear ya

But Turner wasnt his first choice for OL coach. He had to settle for Tuner after the guy he wanted went to Cleveland. 

Maybe he couldve brought Pollack back, but they just let him go, so it would've been weird to be like, "oh hey Frank, I know I didnt want you, but the other guy flaked on me, so Im gonna need you back"

The bengals arent finishing with a winning record this season, so you might as well begin on getting an early start on potential head coaches for 22'

Dude it doesn't matter if Turner was his first choice or not.  That his bad for not researching to see what kind of coach Frank Pollack.  

again, walking into the Bengals job, if his choice for the OL job wasn't available then why even let Pollack walk?  I honestly don't believe Turner wasn't his first choice.  Turner and Zac worked together in Miami.  Family friends.  

[TJ528]

(08-06-2021, 02:47 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I hear ya

But Turner wasnt his first choice for OL coach. He had to settle for Tuner after the guy he wanted went to Cleveland. 

Maybe he couldve brought Pollack back, but they just let him go, so it would've been weird to be like, "oh hey Frank, I know I didnt want you, but the other guy flaked on me, so Im gonna need you back"

The bengals arent finishing with a winning record this season, so you might as well begin on getting an early start on potential head coaches for 22'

I'd much rather lose some dignity and ask a coach to come back to the staff and maybe increase his pay than let an incompetent OL coach ruin the OL of my team for 2  years.  

If the Bengals don't finish with a winning record this year or near a winning record, 9-8, 8-9, then Zac needs to leave.  

I truthfully believe the Bengals will finish 6-11, and the first thing I wanna see after that final Sunday is Taylors ass catchin a flight outta Cincinnati because he's been fired. 

[Frank Booth]

(08-06-2021, 02:52 PM)TJ528 Wrote: an incompetent OL coach ruin the OL of my team for 2  years. 

the lines were already awful, who are you fooling?

now it's somehow Turner's fault that bobby hart was our starting RT, and Jonah and co. cant stay healthy, and that Billy Price is just flat out bad

and we were using a guy who was a retired guard for the Giants to fill in at Tackle.

XSF is a cast off

the personel was, and still is truly horrendous.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-06-2021, 02:52 PM)TJ528 Wrote: I'd much rather lose some dignity and ask a coach to come back to the staff and maybe increase his pay than let an incompetent OL coach ruin the OL of my team for 2  years.  

If the Bengals don't finish with a winning record this year or near a winning record, 9-8, 8-9, then Zac needs to leave.  

I truthfully believe the Bengals will finish 6-11, and the first thing I wanna see after that final Sunday is Taylors ass catchin a flight outta Cincinnati because he's been fired. 

Agree with everything but I think we actually start winning this year and we go the other route 9+ wins.

Turner blew man, so did Eason at DL coach. Pollack and Hobby are clear upgrades and I like Golden the LB coach.

We stay healthy we win 9+ IMO.

Hope we make the playoffs and win a game. We will see.

If not, yeah Taylor needs to go, he finally has decent play on both lines if they stay healthy.

(08-06-2021, 02:58 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: the lines were already awful, who are you fooling?

now it's somehow Turner's fault that bobby hart was our starting RT, and Jonah and co. cant stay healthy, and that Billy Price is just flat out bad

and we were using a guy who was a retired guard for the Giants to fill in at Tackle.

XSF is a cast off

the personel was, and still is truly horrendous.

Turner sucked man, all his players besides Hart fell off a cliff when he coached them. He taught them a 2 hand punch method 
which is the biggest gamble for O-lineman and had both Willie and Munoz scratching their heads. The only reason Hart improved
was he was young and couldn't get any worse especially pass blocking.

Instead of Jonah (first year in the NFL), Jordan, Hopkins, Redmond, Hart we have...

Jonah (second year) Spain/XSF (who was not a castoff, 33rd overall pick), Hopkins, Carman/XSF, Reiff

All of who are good at pass blocking. Run blocking has been the biggest weakness of most of these guys. Get your shit straight.

[Frank Booth]

(08-06-2021, 03:10 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Agree with everything but I think we actually start winning this year and we go the other route 9+ wins.

Turner blew man, so did Eason at DL coach. Pollack and Hobby are clear upgrades and I like Golden the LB coach.

We stay healthy we win 9+ IMO.

Hope we make the playoffs and win a game. We will see.

If not, yeah Taylor needs to go, he finally has decent play on both lines if they stay healthy.

so Zac Taylor is a bad coach, but you think the bengals get 9 wins?

the current offensive line isnt good. You're being a complete homer.

The secondary is good(probably) but the d-line is middle of the pack AT BEST. Linebackers? Not good. One might say, pretty bad.

5 or 6 wins in 2021

new coach for '22

Court is adjourned

[Frank Booth]

(08-06-2021, 03:10 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Jonah (second year) Spain/XSF (who was not a castoff, 33rd overall pick), 

Get your shit straight.

this is not an argument by the way. There are so many bums that get drafted within the first 2 rounds. Using where they were drafted to imply that a player is actually good is so silly. Quit being silly.

Get you shit straight

[TJ528]

(08-06-2021, 03:10 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Agree with everything but I think we actually start winning this year and we go the other route 9+ wins.

Turner blew man, so did Eason at DL coach. Pollack and Hobby are clear upgrades and I like Golden the LB coach.

We stay healthy we win 9+ IMO.

Hope we make the playoffs and win a game. We will see.

If not, yeah Taylor needs to go, he finally has decent play on both lines if they stay healthy.


Turner sucked man, all his players besides Hart fell off a cliff when he coached them. He taught them a 2 hand punch method 
which is the biggest gamble for O-lineman and had both Willie and Munoz scratching their heads. The only reason Hart improved
was he was young and couldn't get any worse especially pass blocking.

Instead of Jonah (first year in the NFL), Jordan, Hopkins, Redmond, Hart we have...

Jonah (second year) Spain/XSF (who was not a castoff, 33rd overall pick), Hopkins, Carman/XSF, Reiff

All of who are good at pass blocking. Run blocking has been the biggest weakness of most of these guys. Get your shit straight.

Famous last words Nate.  I agree "IF" we stay healthy in the "RIGHT" area's then yes we could end up with 9 wins. 

However, as a Bengals fan, I'm kind of jaded into thinking there's always going to be a couple injuries on the OL and we arent set up well to handle any injuries on the OL.   The depth is young and full of back ups.  

I hope we win 9+ games trust me.  This will be my first year inside PBS since 2002 and I'm very much looking forward to it.  

[Joelist]

How about we wait and see what the offense looks like when they actually start calling plays instead of running a preset sequence because they are installing the offense? Right now the defense has an edge because everyone out there knows what the play is and to call the plays vanilla is to say little. Honestly I'd be worried if the defense WASN'T winning at this point.

[Shake n Blake]

If I'm 100% honest about Burrow, I don't know what to expect. He had some big games last year (particularly against the Browns), but yeah...the overall stats weren't impressive. Very akin to Dalton's rookie year, as much as saying that will make some on here lose their minds.

I'll just say this: I have more confidence in Burrow's skills than our coaching. I can't help but feel Joe would absolutely tear it up playing for an Andy Reid, John Harbaugh, etc...but in Cincy? Wouldn't surprise me at all to see him wind up being mediocre at best.

...and not to beat a dead horse, but I'll never change my stance that we put the cart before the horse prioritizing weapons over line in this draft. A young QB needs protection even more than a vet QB. Just so he can build confidence and not be seeing ghosts in the pocket.

[Shake n Blake]

Good grief. I just read through this thread and a couple others, and it's been nothing but toxicity. What happened to this place?

[Joelist]

(08-06-2021, 08:40 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Good grief. I just read through this thread and a couple others, and it's been nothing but toxicity. What happened to this place?

A sort of weird psychosis where people way overreact to training camp, seemingly forgetting that it is practice AND they are not running real plays yet. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-06-2021, 09:07 AM)fredtoast Wrote: What has Burrow done without an elite supporting cast?

What did Dalton do with a similarly crappy team in 2019? Finley started 3 games so i'm guessing Dalton played in 13 (from what i can recall). 

Burrow played in 9 1/2 last year. 

You're a numbers guy. What were the comparable numbers from Dalton's 2019 and Burrow's 2020?

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-06-2021, 01:29 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I think Fred was only summoned to this thread when talk of Dalton not being special came to pass.  The most interesting thing to me is that 10 years ago we were talking about how Dalton had already shown that he had "IT" while his predecessor did not.  It's the circle of fandom.  We are quite literally kicking Dalton down the line from "special new guy" to "not that special old guy."

Who ever said Dalton had "it"? Next question. Did anyone make sure that person(s) had their head and eyes checked?

It's not like he won under the big bright lights and then fell off a cliff. He never had "it". 





Unless "it" was an inability to rise up and carry his team against good teams, under the bright lights and especially in the playoffs, with any semblance of consistency. He had that in spades.

[Shake n Blake]

(08-06-2021, 08:58 PM)Joelist Wrote: A sort of weird psychosis where people way overreact to training camp, seemingly forgetting that it is practice AND they are not running real plays yet. 

I'd wager this attitude right here plays a major role.

[*Nately120*]

(08-06-2021, 09:05 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Who ever said Dalton had "it"? Next question. Did anyone make sure that person(s) had their head and eyes checked?

It's not like he won under the big bright lights and then fell off a cliff. He never had "it". 

Unless "it" was an inability to rise up and carry his team against good teams, under the bright lights and especially in the playoffs, with any semblance of consistency. He had that in spades.

Dalton was declared to have "it" the second we drafted him, much like ZT's first press conference where he said nothing of note had people weak in the knees over his genius and leadership.  

It's fandom, I get it, I'm not immune to it, but you can't tell me at no point did this message board (er...the old one) declare Dalton to be an amazing leader who clearly had more of "it" than that last guy who left town.  Now Dalton is the boring old guy who didn't get it done and Burrow has "it" to the point where we are going to riot if he isn't the best QB we've had in our 50+ years of existence.

Again, I get it with Burrow, but I'm telling you people were once over the moon about Dalton...it's those restless hearts that never mend. Burrow is awesome and a #1 overall pick and so on and so forth but Burrow was immediately better than Dalton and Dalton was immediately better than Palmer like ZT was immediately better than Marvin. Burrow is above and beyond because he's already better than Kenny and Boomer, too. I mean, it's potential and all but I doubt the 49ers fans are saying Trey Lance is already better than Joe Montana.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-06-2021, 09:05 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Who ever said Dalton had "it"? Next question. Did anyone make sure that person(s) had their head and eyes checked?

It's not like he won under the big bright lights and then fell off a cliff. He never had "it". 





Unless "it" was an inability to rise up and carry his team against good teams, under the bright lights and especially in the playoffs, with any semblance of consistency. He had that in spades.

That's 2021 rfaulk talking. Think back to the mindset we were all in going into the 2011 season. New 2nd round rookie coming into a team coming off a 4-12 season that was potentially going to go winless, taking over a team whose franchise QB would rather retire than play for.

Dalton takes that team to not just a winning record, but to the playoffs. During the 2011 season he has FOUR 4th quarter comebacks, four game winning drives. He goes to the Pro Bowl.

People were reasonably hyped and high on Dalton.

[*jason*]

(08-06-2021, 07:59 PM)Joelist Wrote: How about we wait and see what the offense looks like when they actually start calling plays instead of running a preset sequence because they are installing the offense? Right now the defense has an edge because everyone out there knows what the play is and to call the plays vanilla is to say little. Honestly I'd be worried if the defense WASN'T winning at this point.

We should savor it. It'll probably be the last time the defense "wins" anything this season.

[fredtoast]

(08-06-2021, 09:00 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: What did Dalton do with a similarly crappy team in 2019? Finley started 3 games so i'm guessing Dalton played in 13 (from what i can recall). 

Burrow played in 9 1/2 last year. 

You're a numbers guy. What were the comparable numbers from Dalton's 2019 and Burrow's 2020?

So you are agreeing with me.  I have argued all along that even good QBs need talent around them in order to win.

Glad to see that you re finally coming around to my position.  No more of this "Dalton was just good because of the players around him while Burrow will just make everyone around him better."

[fredtoast]

(08-07-2021, 12:25 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That's 2021 rfaulk talking. Think back to the mindset we were all in going into the 2011 season. New 2nd round rookie coming into a team coming off a 4-12 season that was potentially going to go winless, taking over a team whose franchise QB would rather retire than play for.

Dalton takes that team to not just a winning record, but to the playoffs. During the 2011 season he has FOUR 4th quarter comebacks, four game winning drives. He goes to the Pro Bowl.

People were reasonably hyped and high on Dalton.

Also remember that Dalton was coming off a college career where he, like Burrow, had led his team to an undefeated season capped off with a huge Bowl victory.