Jordan listed as number one RG on depth chart

[Tony]

(08-10-2021, 06:50 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Funny we said the same on Jordan but my point if y missed it was if Pollack has improved Jordan that much would Price not also improve since they both blow

Homers gonna Homer....

[Sled21]

(08-10-2021, 07:36 PM)Tony Wrote: Maybe if he wasn't complete dog shit last year. It's not like he was just a lil bad. He was the worst guard in the NFL.. 

I don't disagree. And I'm not saying he's improved. All I'm pointing out is the possibility for a 21 or 22  year old kid to improve his game under the watchful eye of Willie Anderson and Frank Pollack exists. If he has put in the work and earns the spot, I'm not going to continue to dog him for past years. I hope he just comes out and dominates this year.... not that I expect that.

[Sled21]

(08-10-2021, 06:55 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: From Dehner tweet
5. One of the best plays was the 2-yd TD run by Mixon, Su’a-Filo, Price and Jordan blew open the middle for an easy TD run.

Hmm..appears some progress from OL

Would like to know which D-line was in. If they moved Reader and Daniels, or Shelvin or Topou.... I heard Josh is having a great camp as well.

[Sled21]

(08-10-2021, 06:50 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Funny we said the same on Jordan but my point if y missed it was if Pollack has improved Jordan that much would Price not also improve since they both blow

Not necessarily because the blow for different reasons. Jordan has a lack of technique and has problems staying low, so the leverage gets under him. I think Price came in with the proper techniques, but has become Vegan or something, because it seems all his nasty went away. That's more of a head thing. 

[fredtoast]

(08-10-2021, 07:50 PM)EasyPeasy Wrote: You misrepresented what I said, look it up yourself. Your football takes are trash by the way. 

[TJHoushmandzadeh's Shiny Shoes]

(08-09-2021, 06:21 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Well no, he was Duke’s choice. But if you watch that clip I linked Pollack had no interactions with Carman before we took him.

Thank you for the clip. The point Pollack made about the selection of Chase helping the run game by dictating coverage caught my attention.

FWIW Pollack actually says of Carman "I've had more interaction with this guy than I have with other years, normally, in the league" and talks about having plenty of zoom meetings with him.

This is of course a reflection that position coaches usually have a limited role in drafting player (albeit that the Bengals have their coaches more involved than most) and reiterates your original point that it was Duke's pick. Reading between the lines he wasn't someone Pollack was banging on the table for though.

[The D.O.Z.]

I’m not going to freak out about it. If he stays at the top of the depth chart then he’s probably earned it. Look, this young kid felt terrible for having his part in Burrow getting hurt. People in general aren’t too forgiving these days. You make one mistake and the world seems to jump on your back, kick you while you are down, you don’t think this kid has heard it from everywhere under the sun by now? It’s motivated him to be better. Seek off-site training. Maybe….just maybe…he HAS improved and wants to make good on the promise he made his QB.

Give him a chance, it’s preseason and Burrow isn’t playing so if he hasn’t improved, our franchise QB isn’t in the crosshairs while they evaluate. If he has improved, you reward that with more PT. Shouldn’t we be pulling for our young players to improve and earn spots?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-11-2021, 10:23 AM)TJHoushmandzadehs Shiny Shoes Wrote: Thank you for the clip. The point Pollack made about the selection of Chase helping the run game by dictating coverage caught my attention.

FWIW Pollack actually says of Carman "I've had more interaction with this guy than I have with other years, normally, in the league" and talks about having plenty of zoom meetings with him.

This is of course a reflection that position coaches usually have a limited role in drafting player (albeit that the Bengals have their coaches more involved than most) and reiterates your original point that it was Duke's pick. Reading between the lines he wasn't someone Pollack was banging on the table for though.

Ah, that’s my mistake then. I was going off memory from when I originally saw that clip, and hadn’t rewatched it.

The bold was really the reason I dug it up though. That was the feeling I remember having hearing Pollack speak about him.

[CJD]

I'm going to go ahead and not worry about the first depth chart of the pre-season.

If Jordan is still the starter when the regular season starts and Joe is playing, I will be pretty pissed, though I sincerely doubt this will occur.

[Bengalholic]

Maybe Jordan will prove us all wrong and become a quality starter, but right now, he still makes me nervous as hell. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-11-2021, 12:27 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Maybe Jordan will prove us all wrong and become a quality starter, but right now, he still makes me nervous as hell.

Feel the same, I just think they are evaluating Jordan right now to see if he can stay low as I think we are going to add another 
OL once cuts happen and MJ could be cut if he cannot stay low in the Preseason games. If you cannot stay low there is no hope 
for you no matter how big or strong you are. But I am rooting for the guy to do well. I agree with what D.O.Z. said above.

He is young and he can learn. But if he cannot stay low he has to be on the cut list, just the way it is.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-10-2021, 09:58 PM)Joelist Wrote: Are we doing this again?

We have it documented with stats in other threads how under Turner ALL the linemen who he inherited when he came in took a nosedive in performance. Pollack actually had Price after a rough early start beginning to look decent and indeed he had the line blocking fairly well by season's end.

Also all this crying about the line is way premature. Let them get past the first preseason game and get their starters sorted out (and I expect one will be Carman). Plus once they got out of install scenarios and ran actual called plays the whole offense looked better.

I think the only OL that improved under Turner was Hart because he couldn't get any worse and he was getting more snaps and
experience. Could be wrong but I think Hart improved under him but Pollack is light years better than Turner no question.

[Whatever]

(08-11-2021, 08:27 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Not necessarily because the blow for different reasons. Jordan has a lack of technique and has problems staying low, so the leverage gets under him. I think Price came in with the proper techniques, but has become Vegan or something, because it seems all his nasty went away. That's more of a head thing. 

Price had terrible technique in college.  Many scouting reports doubted his technique could ever be fixed it was so deeply ingrained.  

I know everyone likes OL with a mean streak, but a lot of these guys coming out of college have a bully rather than a fighter mentality.  Bullies are tough until you put them in their place.  Then they fold up.  Most of these kids getting drafted could just get by on being bigger and stronger than the guy across from them in college.  In the NFL, most of them aren't anymore.  When someone hands their ass to them, they don't know what to do.

[fredtoast]

(08-11-2021, 12:36 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: He is young and he can learn. But if he cannot stay low he has to be on the cut list, just the way it is.

This.

You all know I refuse to judge any player by his rookie season. There are countless examples of great players who looked bad as a rookie no matter what round they were taken.

I am also more likely to still have hope for a player even after a second sub-par year. Especially if he has a new coach who might make a difference.

But Jordan did not show any real improvement from year 1 to year 2. And that is the first thing I consider when evaluating a players chances of improving dramatically in year 3. So if he is still getting blown up in preseason games year three I don't even want him for a backup.

[fredtoast]

(08-11-2021, 12:47 PM)Whatever Wrote: Many scouting reports doubted his technique could ever be fixed it was so deeply ingrained.  

That is amazing. Scouts have the ability to look at two different players with the same poor technique and determine which one has it more "deeply ingrained".

[Whatever]

(08-11-2021, 12:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is amazing. Scouts have the ability to look at two different players with the same poor technique and determine which one has it more "deeply ingrained".

A good chunk of that is his poor athleticism and inability to accept coaching.  

[Luvnit2]

(08-11-2021, 12:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This.

You all know I refuse to judge any player by his rookie season. There are countless examples of great players who looked bad as a rookie no matter what round they were taken.

I am also more likely to still have hope for a player even after a second sub-par year. Especially if he has a new coach who might make a difference.

But Jordan did not show any real improvement from year 1 to year 2. And that is the first thing I consider when evaluating a players chances of improving dramatically in year 3. So if he is still getting blown up in preseason games year three I don't even want him for a backup.

Amazing how many fans have no trust in our new OL coach Pollack, think they know more even though Pollack sees these guys take every snap and do every drill. Also, i suggest you look around the league at other camps, starting OL get blown up all the time. It is called the guy they go up against is also a pro and paid to beat a pro  OL.

Can we see these guys in a real (somewhat) game in preseason first before trashing them and in essence the OL coach who puts them out there.

[Bengalholic]

(08-11-2021, 01:16 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Amazing how many fans have no trust in our new OL coach Pollack, think they know more even though Pollack sees these guys take every snap and do every drill. Also, i suggest you look around the league at other camps, starting OL get blown up all the time. It is called the guy they go up against is also a pro and paid to beat a pro  OL.

Can we see these guys in a real (somewhat) game in preseason first before trashing them and in essence the OL coach who puts them out there.

I have faith in Pollack and think he'll do a good job with the line this year, and maybe he'll get Jordan to perform at a quality level. We'll see how it plays out. If Jordan does end up at RG, I sure hope he can prove all his detractors wrong.

[Whatever]

(08-11-2021, 12:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This.

You all know I refuse to judge any player by his rookie season. There are countless examples of great players who looked bad as a rookie no matter what round they were taken.

I am also more likely to still have hope for a player even after a second sub-par year. Especially if he has a new coach who might make a difference.

But Jordan did not show any real improvement from year 1 to year 2. And that is the first thing I consider when evaluating a players chances of improving dramatically in year 3. So if he is still getting blown up in preseason games year three I don't even want him for a backup.

He actually did show significant improvement last year...

'19=648 snaps, 6 Penalties, 6 Sacks Allowed, 43.7 PFF

'20=731 snaps, 1 Penalty, 3 Sacks Allowed, 55.7 PFF

However, Burrow's injury greatly colors his body of work last year.  

I'm not banging on the table for the guy, but if has a similar jump this year as he had last year, he would be firmly in average starter range.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-11-2021, 01:16 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Amazing how many fans have no trust in our new OL coach Pollack, think they know more even though Pollack sees these guys take every snap and do every drill. Also, i suggest you look around the league at other camps, starting OL get blown up all the time. It is called the guy they go up against is also a pro and paid to beat a pro  OL.

Can we see these guys in a real (somewhat) game in preseason first before trashing them and in essence the OL coach who puts them out there.

Some guys just cannot stay low, that isn't on the coach. I have trust in Pollack but if MJ cannot stay low he HAS to be on the cut list
for when other players get cut who CAN stay low. If MJ can stay low this is all moot and he most likely makes the team as a depth 
piece. He is extremely young and can learn, this gives him an edge if he can stay low.