Bates on contract situation

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-12-2021, 02:18 PM)pally Wrote: the Seattle Times has reported that the Seahawks have a 4 yr $17.5 million per year offer on the table for Jamal Adams.  $38 million of that guaranteed.  Adams supposedly wants $40 million guaranteed and bonuses paid out over 3 years not 4.  Bates is going to want something close to that offer

I hope he hasn't set his market with Jamal Adams.  It makes much more sense for him to compare himself to other elite safties, who are more traditional IMO.  Adams is such a unqiue player that I almost don't even consider him a safety.  He lines up all over the place.  I can't think of too many safties that have 9.5 sacks in 12 games played. 

Me personally, I would put the absolute bottom of Bates' market at 13 million and I'd put the max at 16 million.  Anything less and you're insulting him.  Anything more, and he's asking for way too much and isn't being realistic.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(08-12-2021, 03:34 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Liscow totally edited the quote to make it sound as bad as possible.

[/quote]

(08-12-2021, 03:42 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: What a shit thing for Liscow to do!

That makes it seem like there is a general chance of the thing will still get worked out in time.

Thank you, Sled.

Furthermore! The, "not gonna speak about it again," was actually more akin to:

(paraphrasing)

"At this point, I'm not gonna keep talking about the contract-," and then went on about the "best team player," quote that I wrote above. He explicitly did not say, "This will be the last time I speak about the contract." full-stop

EDIT* And you'd think someone would have recorded it on Twitter, in a tweet that I can embed, but I can't find anything.

[*bfine32*]

(08-12-2021, 03:34 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Liscow totally edited the quote to make it sound as bad as possible.

I wonder what Liscow's username is on this forum..

[J24]

(08-12-2021, 02:52 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Jamal Adams is a 3x Pro Bowler, 2x 2nd Team All-Pro, 1x 1st Team All-Pro in his 4 years in the NFL who also rushes the passer with DE-like productivity.

Only way Bates can get something even close to that is by being a 1st Team All-Pro in 2021. In which case, they should gladly pay him in 2022. Otherwise laugh.

Bates was really impressive last year, but he hasn't had any kind of consistency in his career yet. Just back in 2019 he allowed 509 yards and 4 TDs in his coverage while missing 14.5% of his tackles. That's a ton of money to guarantee to a guy who you don't really know who he is yet. 

1.) Bates and Adams are two totally different types of players. Ones a box safety and the other is deep Safety. It's not really fair to compare the two players.

2.) Bates had a very good Rookie season and  was considered the best safety in football last season. Saying he hasn't earned a massive contract  because of one bad half season is silly.

3.) The guy has played over 1000 snaps in each of his three seasons and hasn't missed one game yet.

The guy has clearly earned a big deal.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-12-2021, 02:24 PM)Weazzel80 Wrote: We can franchise tag him next year for an estimated 13.5 Million (current Over the Cap projections). We don't have too many other free agents so this is probably the plan, which means Bates might be playing in a contract year for the next two years if he doesn't sign.  

I think the team has a lot of leverage here and Bates has struggled against the run before so that's probably why the team isn't giving him top dollar.

-If he plays well in 2021, we franchise him & maybe give him a top dollar contract.
-If he plays bad in 2021, we made a good choice in not paying him top dollar.

Good points, it isn't the end of the world if Bates isn't extended, just something I wanted to happen as I think he will play 
well this year and it could cost us more. Oh well, not my money.

(08-12-2021, 02:52 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Jamal Adams is a 3x Pro Bowler, 2x 2nd Team All-Pro, 1x 1st Team All-Pro in his 4 years in the NFL who also rushes the passer with DE-like productivity.

Only way Bates can get something even close to that is by being a 1st Team All-Pro in 2021. In which case, they should gladly pay him in 2022. Otherwise laugh.

Bates was really impressive last year, but he hasn't had any kind of consistency in his career yet. Just back in 2019 he allowed 509 yards and 4 TDs in his coverage while missing 14.5% of his tackles. That's a ton of money to guarantee to a guy who you don't really know who he is yet. 

Yeah, as good as Bates is he isn't on Jamal Adams level especially as a tackler or a pass rusher.

That is a ton of money but you cannot say that isn't a ton of GREAT production. He makes that whole Defense WAY better.

(08-12-2021, 03:42 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: What a shit thing for Liscow to do!

That makes it seem like there is a general chance of the thing will still get worked out in time.

Yeah, it was a shit thing for him to do. Bates is just moving onto games and letting his agent and the FO work things out.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-12-2021, 05:25 PM)J24 Wrote: 1.) Bates and Adams are two totally different types of players. Ones a box safety and the other is deep Safety. It's not really fair to compare the two players.

2.) Bates had a very good Rookie season and  was considered the best safety in football last season. Saying he hasn't earned a massive contract  because of one bad half season is silly.

3.) The guy has played over 1000 snaps in each of his three seasons and hasn't missed one game yet.

The guy has clearly earned a big deal.

True but...

Jessie still needs to get much better tackling even though he DID improve in this aspect last season.

[J24]

(08-12-2021, 05:55 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: True but...

Jessie still needs to get much better tackling even though he DID improve in this aspect last season.

He has had 100+ Tackles every season he has played. What Bates really needs is a damn pass rush that force QBs into bad decisions.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-12-2021, 06:40 PM)J24 Wrote: He has had 100+ Tackles every season he has played. What Bates really needs is a damn pass rush that force QBs into bad decisions.

He still misses some he should make and yeah, he needs improve his pass rush. Hopefully Hilton helps him in this aspect.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-12-2021, 03:42 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: What a shit thing for Liscow to do!

That makes it seem like there is a general chance of the thing will still get worked out in time.

Click bait. It's what the world is now. 

[*psychdoctor*]

I said this before but Bengals do not view Safety as highly valued. Do not be surprised if he is franchised then offered a contract. Also, I do think the FO view him as a core player so I do think they will offer something competitive after the franchise tag.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-13-2021, 12:30 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: I said this before but Bengals do not view Safety as highly valued.  Do not be surprised if he is franchised then offered a contract.  Also, I do think the FO view him as a core player so I do think they will offer something competitive after the franchise tag.

After Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu just shredded us year after year?

I mean that should make you want that...

[fredtoast]

(08-13-2021, 12:30 AM)psychdoctor Wrote: I said this before but Bengals do not view Safety as highly valued. 

What is this based on?

Bengals gave Shawn Williams a big contract.  Over $5 million a year way back in 2016.

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-14-2021, 03:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Bengals gave Shawn Williams a big contract.  Over $5 million a year way back in 2016.

I wouldn't consider that a "big" contract.  It only contained 4 million in guarantees, and 5 mil per is far from what the top guys get paid.

[fredtoast]

(08-14-2021, 03:55 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I wouldn't consider that a "big" contract.  It only contained 4 million in guarantees, and 5 mil per is far from what the top guys get paid.

Safety salaries have exploded since 2016.  I'll bet Williams contract was in the top 1/4 of all starting safeties.

Spotrac now charges a fee for that information. 

[George Cantstandya]

(08-14-2021, 04:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Safety salaries have exploded since 2016.  I'll bet Williams contract was in the top 1/4 of all starting safeties.

Spotrac now charges a fee for that information. 

Here is a wayback machine snapshot from Dec.  2016 with Safety salaries.  

https://web.archive.org/web/20161211234631/http://overthecap.com/position/safety/

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-14-2021, 04:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Safety salaries have exploded since 2016.  I'll bet Williams contract was in the top 1/4 of all starting safeties.

Spotrac now charges a fee for that information. 

Fwiw, the franchise tag amount for safties was 10.8 million in 2016.  Eric Berry got tagged the same year Willams inked a 4 year 20 million dollar deal.  The next year, 2017, Berry signed for 6 years 78 million dollars.

---Harrison Smith signed a 5 year 51 million dollar deal in 2016.

---Malcolm Jenkins signed a 4 year 36 million dollar deal in 2016.

---Devin Mccourty signed a 5 year 47 million dollar deal in 2016.

---Earl Thomas signed for 4 years 40 million all the way back in 2014. 

---Kam Chancellor, Thomas' teammate, signed for 3 years 36 million the following year in 2015.

---Eric Weddle signed a 5 year 40 million dollar deal all the way back in 2011.

I'm sorry, 4 years 20 million is not a "big contract" for a safety as you claimed. 

[*bfine32*]

i think we made Reggie Nelson one of the top dozens or so paid Safeties in the league.

But yeah, we really haven't invested a lot of loot in the position.

[fredtoast]

(08-14-2021, 04:41 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: Here is a wayback machine snapshot from Dec.  2016 with Safety salaries.  

https://web.archive.org/web/20161211234631/http://overthecap.com/position/safety/

Both Bengal starting safeties (Williams and Iloka) in the top 26 highest paid safeties.  Pretty clear that Mike Brown values safeties.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-14-2021, 05:21 PM)bfine32 Wrote: i think we made Reggie Nelson one of the top dozens or so paid Safeties in the league.

But yeah, we really haven't invested a lot of loot in the position.

We need to start.

[fredtoast]

(08-14-2021, 04:41 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: I'm sorry, 4 years 20 million is not a "big contract" for a safety as you claimed. 

Top half of the starters in the league (26th).  Same time Iloka was the 17th highest paid.

Big enough to prove Mike Brown values safeties.