No Go Joe

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(08-22-2021, 08:37 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Separation is the most overused and inconsequential term/metric used for WRs. 

…yet that’s why the Bengals drafted Ja’Marr Chase: His ability to create separation. Even a cursory look at his film from LSU shows he was outstanding in this effort.

I’m not arguing or debating with you; I agree with you in principle. To me the criteria for selecting a wide receiver are discipline in route running, catch radius, and straight line speed.

[Frank Booth]

(08-22-2021, 08:42 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: …yet that’s why the Bengals drafted Ja’Marr Chase: His ability to create separation.  Even a cursory look at his film from LSU shows he was outstanding in this effort.

I’m not arguing or debating with you; I agree with you in principle.  To me the criteria for selecting a wide receiver are discipline in route running, catch radius, and straight line speed.

that's what they say, Im not buying it though

pure speculation alert:

I think it was a strategy to keep burrow happy to be here

I dont want to argue about this. It's just my brain speculating

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-22-2021, 08:42 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: …yet that’s why the Bengals drafted Ja’Marr Chase: His ability to create separation.  Even a cursory look at his film from LSU shows he was outstanding in this effort.

I’m not arguing or debating with you; I agree with you in principle.  To me the criteria for selecting a wide receiver are discipline in route running, catch radius, and straight line speed.

For a guy like Chase, all his attributes together are what allows him to separate. That's not a common thing for most WRs. Athletically, Auden Tate is the opposite of Chase but he's able to make a buttload of catches with defenders draped all over him. 

If a guy is productive, i don't care how he does it, as long as he does it. 

To use "separation" as a metric to judge a WR is simply short-sighted and asinine. 

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(08-22-2021, 08:47 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: that's what they say, Im not buying it though

pure speculation alert:

I think it was a strategy to keep burrow happy to be here

I dont want to argue about this. It's just my brain speculating

You’ll get no argument from me! Look, I hope Ja’Marr Chase knocks the rust off as much as anyone on here; same with Joe Burrow.

Like it or not the Bengals may be forced to start the regular season with Brandon Allen behind center or, alternatively, it’s not too late to sign a veteran quarterback to a reasonable one-year deal. After what happened last year against WFT I am more than concerned about Joe Burrow’s long term viability. Rushing him back into the offense too early might be a colossal mistake.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-22-2021, 08:56 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: You’ll get no argument from me!  Look, I hope Ja’Marr Chase knocks the rust off as much as anyone on here; same with Joe Burrow.

Like it or not the Bengals may be forced to start the regular season with Brandon Allen behind center or, alternatively, it’s not too late to sign a veteran quarterback to a reasonable one-year deal.  After what happened last year against WFT I am more than concerned about Joe Burrow’s long term viability.  Rushing him back into the offense too early might be a colossal mistake.

Why would you think he's not medically cleared to start?

If he's medically cleared, why hold him out? It doesn't give him any ability to work throught anything mental--or physical, for that matter--that he would need to work on. 

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(08-22-2021, 09:01 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Why would you think he's not medically cleared to start?

If he's medically cleared, why hold him out?

Those are two awesome questions. First of all I’m not exactly sure what the Bengals’ definition of “medically cleared” is. My fear is being medically cleared and being 100% physically NFL-ready may not be the same thing. Maybe I have a lack of trust in the Cincinnati medical staff and the physical trainers and that is based on team history.

If Joe Burrow is medically cleared and 100% physically ready to play then sure, absolutely, he should play. However, if Joe is medically cleared but less than 100% able to perform he should probably not start yet.

[*jason*]

It's gonna be No Watch Jason if Burrow sits again. This team hurts my eyes with Brandon Allen under center.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-22-2021, 09:10 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Those are two awesome questions. First of all I’m not exactly sure what the Bengals’ definition of “medically cleared” is.  My fear is being medically cleared and being 100% physically NFL-ready may not be the same thing.  Maybe I have a lack of trust in the Cincinnati medical staff and the physical trainers and that is based on team history.

If Joe Burrow is medically cleared and 100% physically ready to play then sure, absolutely, he should play. However, if Joe is medically cleared but less than 100% able to perform he should probably not start yet.

I could be wrong, but i would expect that, at least in conjunction with, the surgeon that did the procedure would have a lot to say and he's not affiliated with the team.

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/05/18/joe-burrows-surgeon-expects-him-to-be-ready-to-go-for-the-start-of-the-season/
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/07/26/zac-taylor-joe-burrow-is-cleared-to-do-everything/
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-preseason-week-2-takeaways-tua-tagovailoa-has-impressive-first-half-for-dolphins/

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(08-22-2021, 05:50 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: Very talented. Not a culture changer. Infact I recall he wanted kitna around so kitna would relay his messages to the coaches.  Ha. Meanwhile Joe is running offensive meetings in year 2. 

The only leverage Palmer had to force Mike Brown to change was to withhold the services of his $100 million dollar QB knowing Mike will pinch a quarter so tight the eagle will scream. Marvin hemmed and hawed about changes needed to be made if he was going to re-sign with the team. Unlike Giggles, Palmer wasn’t bluffing.

[Big_Ern]

(08-22-2021, 11:07 PM)oncemoreuntothejimbreech Wrote: The only leverage Palmer had to force Mike Brown to change was to withhold the services of his $100 million dollar QB knowing Mike will pinch a quarter so tight the eagle will scream. Marvin hemmed and hawed about changes needed to be made if he was going to re-sign with the team. Unlike Giggles, Palmer wasn’t bluffing.

Yes, he really wanted out.  That is for sure.  But he didn't walk in day one and take complete control of the team and set the standard like Joe has.  

[*Nately120*]

(08-23-2021, 07:51 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: Yes, he really wanted out.  That is for sure.  But he didn't walk in day one and take complete control of the team and set the standard like Joe has.  

It is Interesting how after 30 years of running the team with an iron fist Mike Brown turned over control of his business to a rookie QB on day 1.

What do you think Burrow did on day 1 to get the control that Mike Brown refused to give Palmer or Marvin?

[TJ528]

(08-23-2021, 07:51 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: Yes, he really wanted out.  That is for sure.  But he didn't walk in day one and take complete control of the team and set the standard like Joe has.  

If the Bengals are still a sub .500 team, after year 5 of Burrows career, I'll almost guarantee you he is going to really want out like Palmer did because he wants to win.  

Burrow could walk into the Bengals facility and take control because he'd just won a National Title, and Heisman. Everyone knew Burrow was the starting QB in his first year.  Who else were they going to start Brandon Allen?   Where as when Palmer was drafted Jon Kitna was a pretty damn serviceable QB.  So everyone knew that Kitna was starting in 2003.  Hard to walk in and command respect and take complete control of a team when it was determined by management and the FO that you were riding the pine in 2003.  

So I'd say you're looking at 2 totally different situation. 

[*Nately120*]

You do have to wonder why Burrow didn't fire Turner before the 2020 season, though.

[Housh]

As long as we’re getting good reports on his throws I’m fine. A lot of QBs don’t play much in preseason anyway. If we are gonna cry over Burrow not playing 2-3 series in 1 game then we’re just crybabies. Even if Burrow did play this preseason there’s no way he was going to play more than 3 drives anyway

[Sled21]

Taylor said the decision will be made Wed., but they have already seen everything they need to see from him and Hopkins in practice to know they are good to go. So I would not be expecting to see them until Minnesota.

[Big_Ern]

(08-23-2021, 09:44 AM)Nately120 Wrote: It is Interesting how after 30 years of running the team with an iron fist Mike Brown turned over control of his business to a rookie QB on day 1.

What do you think Burrow did on day 1 to get the control that Mike Brown refused to give Palmer or Marvin?

I don't think Joe has control of the team, just that he has a real chance to change the culture or mindset of the team like tom and Peyton do. 

[Big_Ern]

(08-23-2021, 10:08 AM)TJ528 Wrote: If the Bengals are still a sub .500 team, after year 5 of Burrows career, I'll almost guarantee you he is going to really want out like Palmer did because he wants to win.  

Burrow could walk into the Bengals facility and take control because he'd just won a National Title, and Heisman. Everyone knew Burrow was the starting QB in his first year.  Who else were they going to start Brandon Allen?   Where as when Palmer was drafted Jon Kitna was a pretty damn serviceable QB.  So everyone knew that Kitna was starting in 2003.  Hard to walk in and command respect and take complete control of a team when it was determined by management and the FO that you were riding the pine in 2003.  

So I'd say you're looking at 2 totally different situation. 

Burrow starts in that situation too. Burrow tool ownership of the role in off-season zoom meetings and never looked back. They knew from their pre draft meetings he was ready. 

[fredtoast]

(08-23-2021, 07:51 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: Yes, he really wanted out.  That is for sure.  But he didn't walk in day one and take complete control of the team and set the standard like Joe has.  

Damn, wish he had "set the standard" a little higher than 2 wins in 10 games.

[*Nately120*]

(08-23-2021, 10:51 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Taylor said the decision will be made Wed., but they have already seen everything they need to see from him and Hopkins in practice to know they are good to go. So I would not be expecting to see them until Minnesota.

Burrow seems to me like the kind of guy who wouldn't like standing on the sidelines in street clothes when he could be out there playing football, especially since so many starting QBs have played at least some in the pre-season.  

[Nicomo Cosca]

(08-23-2021, 11:18 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Damn, wish he had "set the standard" a little higher than 2 wins in 10 games.

Technically it was 2 wins and a tie in 9 games. Not really fair to pin the WFT loss on him. Especially since he had us in the lead before he went down.