O-line: start the five best now or the five with the best potential?

[fredtoast]

Last year we had 11 different players START on our O-line. We had 9 different players start at least 5 games. Some of these players started at different positions.

I know we did not have much talent on our O-line last year, but the situation was made much worse by the injuries and suspensions that caused the lineup to change almost every week. There is no unit in football where it is more important for the players to get used to who is playing beside them.

I think this year there will be a big emphasis on picking 5 and trying to play them together all year. That makes the decisions on the rookies even harder. Is it better to go with the five best on opening day and then work the rookies into the lineup if they continue to improve during the season. Or do you go opening day with the 5 guys you anticipate being the best five by the end of the season.

On one hand the O-line may be a bit weaker at the start of the season if we start a rookie (I doubt it will be 2), but on the other hand the O-line may end up better because of the continuity.

[XenoMorph]

Production >>>> Potential

[*Synric*]

Neither.

You start the 5 that earn it.

[fredtoast]

(08-19-2021, 09:30 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: Production >>>> Potential

But the point is that "production" might be higher at the end of the year if we start young guys now who grow with the team.

This happens all the time with young QBs.  The rookie may not be as good as the returning veteran at the beginning of the season, but they start the young guy because they know he will be best by the end of the year.

Also we have to remember that once the season starts there are not a lot of options for rookies to get reps in practice.  Training camp is when they have lots of contact nd competition.  But once the season starts there is not a lot of contact in practice or very much experimenting just to give different guys looks.

[XenoMorph]

(08-19-2021, 11:26 AM)fredtoast Wrote: But the point is that "production" might be higher at the end of the year if we start young guys now who grow with the team.

This happens all the time with young QBs.  The rookie may not be as good as the returning veteran at the beginning of the season, but they start the young guy because they know he will be best by the end of the year.

Also we have to remember that once the season starts there are not a lot of options for rookies to get reps in practice.  Training camp is when they have lots of contact nd competition.  But once the season starts there is not a lot of contact in practice or very much experimenting just to give different guys looks.

with a QB coming off the knee injury i wouldnt start potential to watch it grow if the other guys are showing better.  you cant know someone will be BEST by end of year if they arent best now.  

If the rookies start showing better in practice than the vets then sure put them in but not based on perceived potential

[Sled21]

(08-19-2021, 11:26 AM)fredtoast Wrote: But the point is that "production" might be higher at the end of the year if we start young guys now who grow with the team.

This happens all the time with young QBs.  The rookie may not be as good as the returning veteran at the beginning of the season, but they start the young guy because they know he will be best by the end of the year.

Also we have to remember that once the season starts there are not a lot of options for rookies to get reps in practice.  Training camp is when they have lots of contact nd competition.  But once the season starts there is not a lot of contact in practice or very much experimenting just to give different guys looks.

Isn't that what they tried with Jordan? No, I say start the best 5 now, and let the others grow into the job.... when Pollack sees they have surpassed the vet, then they get the job.

[ezekiel23]

Without a doubt,you start the best five.And that will most likely be the vets at all five positions.If they perform well,and hopefully stay healthy,you leave them in there the entire season.No need to rush things.I do believe we have some promising up and coming rookies at the OL position.

[jwalker3853]

Start the best 5 at the start of the season.   Keep working with the rookies (assuming they aren't one of the starters) and work anyone in that earns the job.   Reward hard work and earning the job vs. rewarding hardwork and potential.    I would be afraid providing someone the starting position based on potential is too subjective and would hurt the OL in the long run.  

[jwalker3853]

(08-19-2021, 11:26 AM)fredtoast Wrote: But the point is that "production" might be higher at the end of the year if we start young guys now who grow with the team.

This happens all the time with young QBs.  The rookie may not be as good as the returning veteran at the beginning of the season, but they start the young guy because they know he will be best by the end of the year.

Also we have to remember that once the season starts there are not a lot of options for rookies to get reps in practice.  Training camp is when they have lots of contact nd competition.  But once the season starts there is not a lot of contact in practice or very much experimenting just to give different guys looks.

That may be true, but once the season starts, there will likely be injuries and players getting knicked up.   If you aren't one of the starters, you work hard to keep your self sharp and ready.  Then when your number is called and you have that opportunity, you make the best of it.   

[sandwedge]

(08-19-2021, 11:38 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: with a QB coming off the knee injury i wouldnt start potential to watch it grow if the other guys are showing better.  you cant know someone will be BEST by end of year if they arent best now.  

If the rookies start showing better in practice than the vets then sure put them in but not based on perceived potential

I agree let the potential guys surpass the vets before inserting them as starters. 
Your rep comment killed me!

[Sled21]

(08-19-2021, 02:15 PM)jwalker3853 Wrote: That may be true, but once the season starts, there will likely be injuries and players getting knicked up.   If you aren't one of the starters, you work hard to keep your self sharp and ready.  Then when your number is called and you have that opportunity, you make the best of it.   

Plus, the rookies will get to go in and spell the starters occasionally. They need to make the most of those snaps as well. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Start the current best 5 of course. Let the talent grow behind them and if they grow enough to be better so be it but we need
to have chemistry and not flirt with a bunch of moving players around as much as we had to last year. This was a major prob
last year and it showed big time.

[Bilbo Saggins]

Depends. I don't see it as cut and dry. If you have a rookie that is ever so slightly underperfoming a grizzled vet, that would suggest that by mid-season the rookie may play better than the vet. Other factors may be worth considering. If you have a serviceable vet like XSF who has struggled to stay healthy for 16 consecutive games, but who can backup multiple spots, I don't know if you would want to think of him as a "pencil in starter." You know that he should be a very high end backup coming off the bench, but you know that if he starts day one and makes it through 17 games that it would be an extreme outlier in his career. I don't know if I'd move him from the role of first guard off the bench(which he seems perfect for) IF there were a young player who could play at least comparably. I'd also skew the decision toward competent pass blocking. This is clearly not going to be a run first offense, so they really need 5 guys who are at least OK at pass protecting. 

[Sled21]

(08-19-2021, 07:17 PM)Bilbo Saggins Wrote: Depends. I don't see it as cut and dry. If you have a rookie that is ever so slightly underperfoming a grizzled vet, that would suggest that by mid-season the rookie may play better than the vet. 

Then at that point you play them. Not before. Best 5 play.

[fredtoast]

(08-19-2021, 07:24 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Then at that point you play them. Not before. Best 5 play.

So are you going to give backups reps with the #1 offense in practice once the season starts?

If you have a guy who is a superior player but just needs playing time to develop it would be stupid to stick with the inferior player all year.

NFL coaches understand this.  That is often why they let rookie QBs start over experienced vets.

[Sled21]

(08-19-2021, 07:31 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So are you going to give backups reps with the #1 offense in practice once the season starts?

If you have a guy who is a superior player but just needs playing time to develop it would be stupid to stick with the inferior player all year.

NFL coaches understand this.  That is often why they let rookie QBs start over experienced vets.

Sure, they can take some reps in practice with the ones. And they get to go in to spell the starters occasionally as well. It's up to the coaches to determine when they are ready and playing better than the vet. 

[Hammerstripes]

(08-19-2021, 02:11 PM)jwalker3853 Wrote: Start the best 5 at the start of the season.   Keep working with the rookies (assuming they aren't one of the starters) and work anyone in that earns the job.   Reward hard work and earning the job vs. rewarding hardwork and potential.    I would be afraid providing someone the starting position based on potential is too subjective and would hurt the OL in the long run.  

The only problem with that idea is that the O-line is very dependent on chemistry and how well they work together,  more so than any other position group.  Shuffling in guys later on or making changes during the season is not ideal.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-20-2021, 01:53 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: The only problem with that idea is that the O-line is very dependent on chemistry and how well they work together,  more so than any other position group.  Shuffling in guys later on or making changes during the season is not ideal.

True, but injuries happen every year and this is bound to happen anyways at least with a couple positions on the OL.

There will be a shuffle every year it seems. A team is extremely fortunate if this doesn't happen.

[Hammerstripes]

(08-20-2021, 01:58 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: True, but injuries happen every year and this is bound to happen anyways at least with a couple positions on the OL.

There will be a shuffle every year it seems. A team is extremely fortunate if this doesn't happen.

True, but those are due to injuries.  I think the coaches would prefer to have a set 5 and roll with it.

Although, it seem like there won't be much discussion about who starts IMO.

Jonah, Spain, Price (until Hopkins returns), Smith/Carman, Reiff.  There's really only 1 spot that could be up for grabs.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-20-2021, 02:02 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: True, but those are due to injuries.  I think the coaches would prefer to have a set 5 and roll with it.

Although, it seem like there won't be much discussion about who starts IMO.

Jonah, Spain, Price (until Hopkins returns), Smith/Carman, Reiff.  There's really only 1 spot that could be up for grabs.

Yeah, I think we would all prefer to have the best 5 start all year with no shuffle whatsoever. Just rare for it to happen.