2019 Draft Retrospective

[BengalChris]

(08-31-2021, 10:10 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Lets see if we make the Playoffs this year and win a Playoff game. If Taylor does this I will give him credit for it.

That's exactly what it will take!

Will you be holding your breath for that to happen?

 

[Nicomo Cosca]

If Jonah can shake the injury bug, and become the high end LT he was projected to be for the next decade I’ll be pretty happy with this draft.

Nothing will ever he worse than 2015. I like Uzomah, but when he’s your best pick from an entire draft that’s pretty terrible.

[Bryan]

(08-31-2021, 06:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: True and I still like all 3 of them even if Sample was picked too high. He is still solid counter to what some say.

Jonah and Pratt both could be top pros at their positions. Pratt has looked good this offseason.

I've always said Sample will generally catch whatever you throw his way but he'll only be 5 yards down the field. He can catch, he's just not a field stretcher/playmaker

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-31-2021, 10:13 PM)BengalChris Wrote: That's exactly what it will take!

Will you be holding your breath for that to happen?

 

Of course I will, I always hold my breath hoping the Bengals win a Playoff game...

What else have I got besides my good looks.

(08-31-2021, 10:15 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: If Jonah can shake the injury bug, and become the high end LT he was projected to be for the next decade I’ll be pretty happy with this draft.

Nothing will ever he worse than 2015. I like Uzomah, but when he’s your best pick from an entire draft that’s pretty terrible.

Yeah, that is where we fell off a cliff, that 2015 Draft and letting Whit go and terrible drafts for a couple year's straight.

(08-31-2021, 10:23 PM)Bryan Wrote: I've always said Sample will generally catch whatever you throw his way but he'll only be 5 yards down the field. He can catch, he's just not a field stretcher/playmaker

True, my only complaint with Drew, he is just a dump off TE that can block good.

This is why I wanted Pitts more than anybody in this last Draft. Would of completely changed our Offense.

[Bengalitis]

(08-31-2021, 10:06 PM)BengalChris Wrote: That Sample is a real game changer. LOL

Tobin made the Burrow pick. Taylor's part of the job was to suck so bad that the team got the first pick and that's all I'll ever credit him for.

 

We almost got Tua, we were starting to win at the end...  looks like the 'phins are getting cold feet about Tua, with rumor of Watson wanted over there.

[Murdock2420]

(09-01-2021, 12:11 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: We almost got Tua, we were starting to win at the end...  looks like the 'phins are getting cold feet about Tua, with rumor of Watson wanted over there.

Not sure Tua was really in play in Cincy leading up to the draft. The only other QB they talked about was Herbert after working with him at the Senior Bowl. 

[Sled21]

(08-31-2021, 07:22 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Believe he booted a 57 yarder against the Phins if I am not mistaken...

You know who else hit from 57 for the Bengals? Fat Randy and the Nuge.... granted, Superfoot's kick was probably good from 67....

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-31-2021, 06:07 PM)DesertBengal Wrote: As I was tracking cuts today, I had to go back and look at the 2019 draft…

Out of 10 draft selections, there are only 3 that remain with the team.  Jonah Williams, Drew Sample and Germain Pratt.  

A disappointing draft to say the least considering out of the 3 players remaining, 2 are average/rotational starters (Pratt & Sample) and the one (Jonah Williams) that has shown the most potential has only played 10 out of 32 games.

At least the 2020 and 2021 drafts are looking better right now!

While the Ryan Finley pick was surely a huge waste, he did give us what was probably the most entertaining win in the last 5 years.  I swear I still laugh every time I see that picture of him smiling under the pile.  

Mike Jordan played a lot of football for the Bengals and was a part of a tragic injury that likely sealed his fate, despite how he tried hard to respond by transforming his body and working to improve himself.  He was a LOT better this preseason, but he will always be the guy that got blown up and seemingly shoved the DT in to Burrow's knee.  Wish him the best moving forward. 

Renell Wren had massive (hey, they call him Mount Wren) potential but his progress was stymied by injuries.  Too bad, as I think he has more upside than Tupou, but I will say his drafting seemed to bring the best out of Tupou.

The rest of the guys (Traveyon Williams, DeShawn Davis, Rodney Anderson, and Jordan Brown) were all 6th rounders (Brown was a 7th) and the two RBs that had the most potential were also beseiged by injuries.  

It wasn't a horrible draft class in all, but I can see what you mean about having only 3 starters from it doesn't bode very well moving forward.  The key is Jonah Williams.  If he can stay healthy this year and play in the direction his projection is pointing, that will go a long way in improving the grade for this draft class.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-31-2021, 06:56 PM)impactplaya Wrote: I was imperative in.ZTs 1st draft he landed
Gamechangers and playmakers.
Marvins last few drafts really came up
Short. A franchise simply cannot win when you
Miss conistantly on 1st RD picks.
Zacs 1st draft is really lacking difference makers.
Williams needs to stay healthy and cause those
DEs he faces to disapear.
Pratt does nothing that makes.you.go wow
This guy is a force. He is not a headache for opposing
Offenses.
Sample is  1980s TE trying to play in  current era offense

I get what you are saying here.  Whenever I think of draft evaluations, I always think of what Jimmy Johnson would say with respect to acquiring players.  It was something to the effect of this:

I don't care if they aren't the biggest, strongest, or fastest, but I want PLAYMAKERS.  He emphasized that some guys just had a knack for making plays and always seemed to find a way to get their hands on the ball. 

I am not saying that I 100% agree with that philosophy, but I get where he is coming.   I think some of that is coaching.  Players need to play like their hair is on fire, not tentative and over-thinking.  

Back to your point about ZT's first draft:  I understand a team needs WOW players, but it also needs "nuts and bolts" or "glue" players.  Yes, Jonah and Sample both had injuries their first year, and Jonah did his second year as well, but I see these guys as solid "nuts and bolts" players.  Both have worked extremely hard since being here.  Look at pictures of either one before and after a couple years here.  Jonah survived an idiot offensive line coach, and Sample's projected role changed last year when Uzo went down.  He did a pretty damn good job filling in as more of the receiving TE for Uzo.  

Fast forward to ZTs 2nd draft:  

Burrow-  I think we can all agree that he is exactly as advertised and what he did in year 1, coming off COVID, with that roster, was nothing short of impressive.  

Tee Higgins-  I admit, I wanted a burner and thought Tee was too much like other WRs we had.  Dead wrong.  Playmaker.  Stud.  Arrow pointing straight up.  

Logan Wilson- Performance was a mixed bag, but started as a rookie and behind one of the worst defensive lines in history.

ADG- The guy who lives  life on here as an abbreviation.  Inconsistent, but looks to be improving.  Also played a lot as a rookie and a solid special teams guy.

Khalid Kareem-  Rotational player at DE that seems to have worked his ass off this offseason.  Setback by injuries as a rookie, but still got some valuable time next to a turd storm of DTs. 

Hakeem Adeniji-  Could have pushed to start this year and did start at OT a couple games in 2020.  Bad luck injury this year, but is certainly in the mix at OT and even G moving forward. 

Marcus Bailey- A lottery ticket that barely played his rookie season, but has worked his ass off and has made plays all of preseason and training camp.  Solid depth in the LB corps.

That is 7 for 7 that are all still on the roster, and show potential to be in the long term plans.  This draft looks to be outstanding.  And although it is VERY early, ALL 10 DRAFT PICKS in the 2021 draft made the 53 man roster, with Ossai and Hubert sadly on IR.  

Sure, 2019 wasn't all WOW, but 2020 sure looks to be and 2021 is trending in the right direction.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-31-2021, 07:33 PM)Awful Llama Wrote: If there were any justice at all in this cruel world, that's exactly who I'd mean.  Sadly, a lame nickname seems his destiny.  

Dude, you can use whatever nickname you want!  I give players MULTIPLE nicknames...that seems to be my gift....giving nicknames.  I always loved doing it to kids on whatever team I was coaching, friends, etc.

David Dunn, a WR for the Bengals in "the dark years" was a solid "move the chains" guy that always seemed to come up on third down.  He wouldn't have a massive stat line after a game (who did back then?) but he was a solid guy that simply did his job.

I would call him David "Third" Dunn.  Or sometimes:  David "well" Dunn.  Or other times "Snoop Doggy Dunn", as he had some braids.  

Use whatever nickname you want for McPherson.  I actually like McFearsome, but Legs Benedict is pretty damn funny too.  

[Wes Mantooth]

(09-01-2021, 12:11 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: looks like the 'phins are getting cold feet about Tua, with rumor of Watson wanted over there.

I don't get teams that do this.  They just drafted the guy last year #5 overall.  He was coming off injury and didn't even get to play the whole season.  Not only that, he wasn't even that bad.  While he was far from great and didn't always look the part, he still finished with an 87 QB rating, he had a decent 64% completetion rate, and he had a little over a 2 to 1 TD to INT's.  Plus he was 6-3 as a starter!

Now it seems like they couldn't be less enthused about him.  It's like his career there is over, or at least it's temporary until they can get who they really want.  Well, why the hell did they even bother taking him then?  They can't even give the guy a chance with a full season before mortgaging a bunch of picks on another QB?
 
I don't know, if I were the Dolphins I would think it's insane to give up on this guy so soon.

[TJ528]

(09-01-2021, 09:26 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I get what you are saying here.  Whenever I think of draft evaluations, I always think of what Jimmy Johnson would say with respect to acquiring players.  It was something to the effect of this:

I don't care if they aren't the biggest, strongest, or fastest, but I want PLAYMAKERS.  He emphasized that some guys just had a knack for making plays and always seemed to find a way to get their hands on the ball. 

I am not saying that I 100% agree with that philosophy, but I get where he is coming.   I think some of that is coaching.  Players need to play like their hair is on fire, not tentative and over-thinking.  

Back to your point about ZT's first draft:  I understand a team needs WOW players, but it also needs "nuts and bolts" or "glue" players.  Yes, Jonah and Sample both had injuries their first year, and Jonah did his second year as well, but I see these guys as solid "nuts and bolts" players.  Both have worked extremely hard since being here.  Look at pictures of either one before and after a couple years here.  Jonah survived an idiot offensive line coach, and Sample's projected role changed last year when Uzo went down.  He did a pretty damn good job filling in as more of the receiving TE for Uzo.  

Fast forward to ZTs 2nd draft:  

Burrow-  I think we can all agree that he is exactly as advertised and what he did in year 1, coming off COVID, with that roster, was nothing short of impressive.  

Tee Higgins-  I admit, I wanted a burner and thought Tee was too much like other WRs we had.  Dead wrong.  Playmaker.  Stud.  Arrow pointing straight up.  

Logan Wilson- Performance was a mixed bag, but started as a rookie and behind one of the worst defensive lines in history.

ADG- The guy who lives  life on here as an abbreviation.  Inconsistent, but looks to be improving.  Also played a lot as a rookie and a solid special teams guy.

Khalid Kareem-  Rotational player at DE that seems to have worked his ass off this offseason.  Setback by injuries as a rookie, but still got some valuable time next to a turd storm of DTs. 

Hakeem Adeniji-  Could have pushed to start this year and did start at OT a couple games in 2020.  Bad luck injury this year, but is certainly in the mix at OT and even G moving forward. 

Marcus Bailey- A lottery ticket that barely played his rookie season, but has worked his ass off and has made plays all of preseason and training camp.  Solid depth in the LB corps.

That is 7 for 7 that are all still on the roster, and show potential to be in the long term plans.  This draft looks to be outstanding.  And although it is VERY early, ALL 10 DRAFT PICKS in the 2021 draft made the 53 man roster, with Ossai and Hubert sadly on IR.  

Sure, 2019 wasn't all WOW, but 2020 sure looks to be and 2021 is trending in the right direction.  

SHRacer, while i agree with the first half of you above, the 2nd half I just can't quite agree with yet.  

I think you can say Burrow and Higgins were big hits in the 2020 draft class.  

Wilson may be something but he wasn't Ray Lewis nor Burffect his first season.  Kid can be a solid contributor but i don't think a difference maker personally.  

Kareem, I liked what i seen in the first few plays i seen against the Dolphins and was stoked, and then i realized he got hurt....again.  If you can't stay on the field your of no value to a football team.  You may  have all the potential in the world but that's all it is until you display it on the field in a game, of which he's not played but what 3 snaps?  

Same can be said of Adeniji, and Bailey.  Both are still here because the staff sees talent not because they've put something on tape and stood out.  

So next season we could be look at this and saying well the Bengals drafted 3 LB, more OL, because Wilson, Bailey and Adeniji didnt pan out because they couldn't stay healthy. 

I mean hell we aren't even touching on the 2019 draft and Jonah's ability to stay healthy.  So we'll see in 2021 if he can stay on the field.  

Notice a reoccurring theme with theme with this team?  I'm wondering if Katie and Troy need to change up the medical team because i can swear is the same song and dance every year. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(09-01-2021, 09:45 AM)TJ528 Wrote: SHRacer, while i agree with the first half of you above, the 2nd half I just can't quite agree with yet.  

I think you can say Burrow and Higgins were big hits in the 2020 draft class.  

Wilson may be something but he wasn't Ray Lewis nor Burffect his first season.  Kid can be a solid contributor but i don't think a difference maker personally.  

Kareem, I liked what i seen in the first few plays i seen against the Dolphins and was stoked, and then i realized he got hurt....again.  If you can't stay on the field your of no value to a football team.  You may  have all the potential in the world but that's all it is until you display it on the field in a game, of which he's not played but what 3 snaps?  

Same can be said of Adeniji, and Bailey.  Both are still here because the staff sees talent not because they've put something on tape and stood out.  

So next season we could be look at this and saying well the Bengals drafted 3 LB, more OL, because Wilson, Bailey and Adeniji didnt pan out because they couldn't stay healthy. 

I mean hell we aren't even touching on the 2019 draft and Jonah's ability to stay healthy.  So we'll see in 2021 if he can stay on the field.  

Notice a reoccurring theme with theme with this team?  I'm wondering if Katie and Troy need to change up the medical team because i can swear is the same song and dance every year. 

I know it feels that way, and for some time it has been first round picks that couldn't stay healthy, but this has been refuted over and over again.  The Bengals % of injuries to starters is the same as almost every other team in the NFL.  There are yearly fluctuations, but by and large, they are right on average.  It is the NFL and injuries happen A LOT.  The point is the guys I highlighted are starters or backups on the NFL roster and that is rarely 100% in any draft for any team.  

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(08-31-2021, 10:15 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Nothing will ever he worse than 2015. I like Uzomah, but when he’s your best pick from an entire draft that’s pretty terrible.

1999 I am pretty sure wants that belt.

Akili Smith
Charles Fisher
Cory Hall
Craig Yeast
Nick Luchey
Kelly Gregg
Tony Coats
Scott Covington
Donald Broomfield


2008 says hello from a solid 3rd.

Keith Rivers
Jerome Simpson
Pat Sims
Andre Caldwell
Anthony Collins
Jason Shirley
Corey Lynch
Matt Sherry
Angelo Craig
Mario Urrutia

(09-01-2021, 12:11 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: We almost got Tua, we were starting to win at the end...  looks like the 'phins are getting cold feet about Tua, with rumor of Watson wanted over there.

I don't know if it's cold feet... if you take the off-the-field issues away (a big ask, but for the sake of hypotheticals lets do so), Watson is the 5th best QB in the NFL right now. It's Mahomes, Brady, Rodgers, Wilson.... and then Watson at 5th. If you can get the 5th best QB in the NFL (and are confident in his off-the-field issues being solved) then there's no reason not to.

DeShaun Watson's career average 16 game season so far: 67.8% completion, 4,308 yards (8.3 YPA), 33 TD/11 INT, 104.5 QB Rating

And he's still getting better because his 2020 was better in every single one of those stats and he's heading into just his age 26 season, just 1 year older than Burrow. (He also adds on an extra 500 yards/5 TDs rushing per 16 games, too.)

[Bengalitis]

(09-01-2021, 10:52 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: 1999 I am pretty sure wants that belt.

Akili Smith
Charles Fisher
Cory Hall
Craig Yeast
Nick Luchey
Kelly Gregg
Tony Coats
Scott Covington
Donald Broomfield


2008 says hello from a solid 3rd.

Keith Rivers
Jerome Simpson
Pat Sims
Andre Caldwell
Anthony Collins
Jason Shirley
Corey Lynch
Matt Sherry
Angelo Craig
Mario Urrutia


I don't know if it's cold feet... if you take the off-the-field issues away (a big ask, but for the sake of hypotheticals lets do so), Watson is the 5th best QB in the NFL right now. It's Mahomes, Brady, Rodgers, Wilson.... and then Watson at 5th. If you can get the 5th best QB in the NFL (and are confident in his off-the-field issues being solved) then there's no reason not to.

DeShaun Watson's career average 16 game season so far: 67.8% completion, 4,308 yards (8.3 YPA), 33 TD/11 INT, 104.5 QB Rating

And he's still getting better because his 2020 was better in every single one of those stats and he's heading into just his age 26 season, just 1 year older than Burrow. (He also adds on an extra 500 yards/5 TDs rushing per 16 games, too.)

Wait a minit! We should be going after him.. I like what you put on the table there.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(09-01-2021, 10:59 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: Wait a minit! We should be going after him.. I like what you put on the table there.

I actually pounded the table a little for going after him early in the offseason, but that was before his legal troubles surfaced. Not sure I would want to touch him now.

Watson's on-field production is what you hope Burrow can become. So I wasn't opposed to the idea (again, before legal troubles) of getting the guy who is already there even if it cost Burrow and some picks. 

Moot point now.

[BengalChris]

(09-01-2021, 12:11 AM)Bengalitis Wrote: We almost got Tua, we were starting to win at the end...  looks like the 'phins are getting cold feet about Tua, with rumor of Watson wanted over there.

Tua would not have been the Bengals pick at #2. It would have been Herbert.

 

[*ochocincos*]

Picks I remember being happy about from the 2019 draft:
- Jonah Williams
- Germaine Pratt
- Trayveon Williams

So out of the ones I liked, only one is no longer with the team.
I still think Jonah will turn out to be an above average OT. He's been plagued with some injuries that have wiped out over half of his career games. Hopefully he gets to play 14+ games this season and really take that next step.
Pratt isn't where I thought he'd be, but I'll give him through this season to flip the switch. Usually a mid-round pick will take 2-3 years to develop if they ever become something.
I felt like Trayveon never really got much opportunity with all the veterans in front of him, and I guess he didn't show enough to justify keeping a 4th RB over a 7th WR.