How SHOULD Chase be used in the offense?

[jj22]

(09-01-2021, 11:24 PM)Benton Wrote: Can he at least return punts?

Not sure I trust him catching punts right now.

[Shake n Blake]

Find the routes this kid is most comfortable with, and start with those to build some of his confidence back up. Then go from there. Work with the players, rather than forcing them to fit a very specific role. That's always been my stance with pretty much all players.

[Joelist]

(09-02-2021, 02:33 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Find the routes this kid is most comfortable with, and start with those to build some of his confidence back up. Then go from there. Work with the players, rather than forcing them to fit a very specific role. That's always been my stance with pretty much all players.

Makes sense. I'd also like them to actually let both him and Burrow just play - they like to stretch the field so let them. 

[Murdock2420]

(09-02-2021, 02:33 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Find the routes this kid is most comfortable with, and start with those to build some of his confidence back up. Then go from there. Work with the players, rather than forcing them to fit a very specific role. That's always been my stance with pretty much all players.

Seems like the correct answer here.

Have to get him in situations where he is comfortable and let him catch the ball in space, get used to having success and build off of that. 

[*Synric*]

(09-02-2021, 03:16 PM)Joelist Wrote: Makes sense. I'd also like them to actually let both him and Burrow just play - they like to stretch the field so let them. 

If Chase only runs Go's, Posts, and Corners 9,8,7, routes does he come off the field in the redzone? If they want to run a double slant play he comes off the field? What about digs curls outs?

If you limit the routes Ja'Marr Chase runs you limit the plays you can run which limits the offense. It's very simple if he can't run a full route tree as an X receiver he doesn't see the field.

[Au165]

(09-02-2021, 04:07 PM)Synric Wrote: If Chase only runs Go's, Posts, and Corners 9,8,7, routes does he come off the field in the redzone? If they want to run a double slant play he comes off the field? What about digs curls outs?

If you limit the routes Ja'Marr Chase runs you limit the plays you can run which limits the offense. It's very simple if he can't run a full route tree as an X receiver he doesn't see the field.

Dez Bryant couldn’t run a full route tree…

I’m not saying Chase can’t but the notion you have too isn’t really true. I mentioned early on, limit his targets leading him into traffic because he has a mental block right now. Work out breaking or deep posts in MOFO situations.

[*Synric*]

(09-02-2021, 04:08 PM)Au165 Wrote: Dez Bryant couldn’t run a full route tree…

I’m not saying Chase can’t but the notion you have too isn’t really true. I mentioned early on, limit his targets leading him into traffic because he has a mental block right now. Work out breaking or deep posts in MOFO situations.

You don't have to be great at every route but you have to be able to run it.

[Murdock2420]

(09-02-2021, 04:07 PM)Synric Wrote: If Chase only runs Go's, Posts, and Corners 9,8,7, routes does he come off the field in the redzone? If they want to run a double slant play he comes off the field? What about digs curls outs?

If you limit the routes Ja'Marr Chase runs you limit the plays you can run which limits the offense. It's very simple if he can't run a full route tree as an X receiver he doesn't see the field.

Till he is comfortable, yes why not? Tate is a better red zone target then field stretching guy, Higgins and Boyd have shown the ability to succeed in tight spaces, C.J. is back and healthy which makes for another nice big target in the Red zone, then add in Sample or a RB and honestly, until Chase seems comfortable, you can survive without him down there. In a compact area like that, you need guys that win contested catches or go with the extra TE's that can also catch for the play-action advantage.

[Au165]

(09-02-2021, 04:12 PM)Synric Wrote: You don't have to be great at every route but you have to be able to run it.

Dez Bryant could not, and there for was never asked to run a full route tree. Again, kind of aside but no I don’t think Chase has to run a full tree because most offenses don’t ask anyone to run a full tree. You can limit his exposure to in breaking routes for now because of the fact it’ll probably be a drop anyways. If your smart you can make it work via compressed sets and motion. Then as the season progresses you work more in as his comfort level rises.

[*Synric*]

(09-02-2021, 04:25 PM)Au165 Wrote: Dez Bryant could not, and there for was never asked to run a full route tree. Again, kind of aside but no I don’t think Chase has to run a full tree because most offenses don’t ask anyone to run a full tree. You can limit his exposure to in breaking routes for now because of the fact it’ll probably be a drop anyways. If your smart you can make it work via compressed sets and motion. Then as the season progresses you work more in as his comfort level rises.

They are using a ton of compressed sets this pre-season in their new wide zone offense and a ton of slants. 

[Au165]

(09-02-2021, 04:29 PM)Synric Wrote: They are using a ton of compressed sets this pre-season in their new wide zone offense and a ton of slants. 

So let him run the clear out, not that hard and still fits in the scheme. Just saying forcing him across the middle gains us nothing if he drops it and if he does keep dropping it the issues will keep getting worse. The out route has been the one thing this camp that has looked almost automatic. Off coverage he and Burrow will check to that often I’m guessing. When a team starts jumping it you’ll get the out and up.

[*Synric*]

(09-02-2021, 04:35 PM)Au165 Wrote: So let him run the clear out, not that hard and still fits in the scheme. Just saying forcing him across the middle gains us nothing if he drops it and if he does keep dropping it the issues will keep getting worse. The out route has been the one thing this camp that has looked almost automatic. Off coverage he and Burrow will check to that often I’m guessing. When a team starts jumping it you’ll get the out and up.

Out is another one he has to be able to run. Out Curl and Slant are the 3 most efficient routes in football with Slant being the most efficient. 

[Shake n Blake]

(09-02-2021, 03:16 PM)Joelist Wrote: Makes sense. I'd also like them to actually let both him and Burrow just play - they like to stretch the field so let them. 

Agreed. Don't be afraid to let them fail. Give them room to grow. This ain't a playoff team anyway. I just want to see growth and improvement.

(09-02-2021, 04:25 PM)Au165 Wrote: Dez Bryant could not, and there for was never asked to run a full route tree. Again, kind of aside but no I don’t think Chase has to run a full tree because most offenses don’t ask anyone to run a full tree. You can limit his exposure to in breaking routes for now because of the fact it’ll probably be a drop anyways. If your smart you can make it work via compressed sets and motion. Then as the season progresses you work more in as his comfort level rises.

Exactly, and it's not like it has to stay that way forever. Just build the guys confidence, then let him fly. Like a peacock.

[EatonFan]

First, put lots and lots of glue on his hands...

[Joelist]

(09-03-2021, 01:21 AM)EatonFan Wrote: First, put lots and lots of glue on his hands...

Which has nothing to do with a thread regarding offensive scheming.

[EatonFan]

(09-03-2021, 01:49 AM)Joelist Wrote: Which has nothing to do with a thread regarding offensive scheming.

I wasn't finished.  That was just the first step.

[fredtoast]

Chris Henry only had 12 receptions over the first 8 games of 2009. But when he was lost to injury our entire passing game collapsed.

Pass game rankings with Henry
18th in yards (only 25 from being in top half of league)
12th in passer rating
9th in tds

Ranking in 8 games without Henry
30th in yards
21st in rating
27th in tds

And the Bengals played against much tougher defenses the first 8 games than they did the second half of the season. So the difference is actually even greater than it appears.

Just the presence of a deep threat can open up the passing game for other receivers.

[jj22]

(09-03-2021, 01:49 AM)Joelist Wrote: Which has nothing to do with a thread regarding offensive scheming.

I mean it is a scheme. A pretty scandalous one but a scheme nevertheless. 

[Whatever]

(09-02-2021, 04:40 PM)Synric Wrote: Out is another one he has to be able to run. Out Curl and Slant are the 3 most efficient routes in football with Slant being the most efficient. 

Honestly, I think you just have him run the offense and work through his issues.  Maybe you limit his inside targets on 3rd down and throw him a slant when you're ahead of the chains to build confidence.  If you're in playoff contention and the problems persist, maybe you make a big change.

Something people overlook is Higgins was tied for the 5th most drops in the league last year and was top 20 in drop %.  Taylor and company allowed him to work through the issues and he still had a good year despite them.  Conversely, John Ross had drop issues and Marvin would put him in the doghouse and it destroyed his confidence and crippled his productivity.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-01-2021, 06:23 PM)Joelist Wrote: A better (and less antagonistic to other forum posters) question than the "regret" or "bust" stuff is how should he be used in the offense?

My understanding of why we took him was he has the tools to stretch a defense vertically, leading to more running room and less defenses sitting on the run and the short routes. So they should be playing him at X and calling the appropriate posts and other deeper routes to leverage his strong points.

For some strange reason, in preseason games they constantly sent him on shallow routes that were frequently in the middle. The only time they actually let him get into space (albeit in the backfield) he gained 16 yards - all the others were in traffic. That and pulling not only him but the first team offense way too fast in all three game means they are still rusty going into games that count.

Deep outs, fades, post routes. Then throw in a Slant and a WR screen once in awhile. Vanilla preseason just to get his feet wet and 
feel what its like to about to get his was all this Preseason was for him. Been awhile since he heard footsteps, he will get it down.

What is so nice about Chase is you can use him in so many ways, Sluggos, Seam routes and contrary to what some believe he is a 
very good Slant runner, he just needs to get the stuff out of his head. It will come, immense talent is Ja'Marr Chase.