Burrow Proved Himself

[*Nately120*]

(09-20-2021, 10:08 AM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote: The LA Rams literally gave the Bengals the blueprint to beat the Bears (by stretching the field) the week before and it was never even a thought until the end of the 4th quarter.  

The blueprint LA provided for beating the Bears is to take a guy like Stafford out of Detroit and put him on a SB-caliber team with a SB-caliber coach.  Burrow airing it out sounds like fun, but also goes against our "Please don't let ZT get Burrow killed" mantra we had going until the game ended yesterday.

I'm just not sure Chase getting a long TD on a blown coverage once the game was (supposedly) in the bag is evidence Burrow trying to stay alive while long pass plays develop is the key to victory.  Then again, it would be more interesting for sure.

[TecmoBengals]

(09-20-2021, 10:01 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: I’m not denying that, but players play the game. Zac didn’t cause Burrow to throw those interceptions. The coaches certainly share blame, I am no fan of this coaching staff, but what happens on the field is all the players.

Sure, players do play the game. I think we all get understand this simple notion. There is blame aplenty and it isn't just the coaches fault or just the players fault, but I disagree with the sentiment "what happens on the field is all the players." If Zac had the ability to call better plays, Burrow and anyone else on the team might have been able to avoid turnovers and other mistakes. Empty set, the Bears knew a short throw was coming. Mixon in the backfield, the Bears knew a run was coming. Zac's basic game plan was easy to stop and pressure into mistakes by the Bears defense. What happened on the field was a result of Zac being a poor coach.

Although, to your point the OL seemingly lacks talent so I'm not sure if even the best coaches can overcome the deficiencies with the OL. Our window into Zac is limited beyond press conferences, but I fail to see him demonstrate a strong sense of efficacy for when things go badly. He finds a way to make it about the players on the field to absolve himself from blame. Zac is an historically bad NFL coach with his win/loss percentage so I'll place a greater amount of blame on him compared to poor on field player execution.

[ezekiel23]

(09-20-2021, 09:37 AM)RiverRat13 Wrote: I don't think it is all mental.  He looks physically slow in the pocket, not like it is just a mental block.  That part of his game may not come back until 2022.

I was very surprised in the fact that,especially with the pressure he was facing,why didn’t he roll out of the pocket,and throw on the run.That technique is one of his strengths.I think he’s one of the best at rolling out and throwing the ball.

It appears ZT has lost his mind.

[GreenCornBengal]

(09-20-2021, 10:25 AM)Nately120 Wrote: The blueprint LA provided for beating the Bears is to take a guy like Stafford out of Detroit and put him on a SB-caliber team with a SB-caliber coach.  Burrow airing it out sounds like fun, but also goes against our "Please don't let ZT get Burrow killed" mantra we had going until the game ended yesterday.

I'm just not sure Chase getting a long TD on a blown coverage once the game was (supposedly) in the bag is evidence Burrow trying to stay alive while long pass plays develop is the key to victory.  Then again, it would be more interesting for sure.

My thoughts on the “don’t get burrow killed” mantra is that he is getting killed either way so we might as well go down shootin. It’s not like they saved him from a bunch of hits yesterday with the short game. If he’s gonna get killed either way, let’s take some shots while he still can walk.

[Sled21]

(09-20-2021, 10:43 AM)ezekiel23 Wrote: I was very surprised in the fact that,especially with the pressure he was facing,why didn’t he roll out of the pocket,and throw on the run.That technique is one of his strengths.I think he’s one of the best at rolling out and throwing the ball.

It appears ZT has lost his mind.

He did roll out a couple of times, right into the arms of defenders crashing the pocket.

[Big Boss]

I appreciate his moxie, but he's displaying traits this year that are very uncharacteristic of him. He's standing still in the pocket, he's not going through progressions and he's staring down receivers. He just doesn't look like himself. Couple that with conservative play-calling in the passing game and this offense simply isn't working. It's certainly not the "explosive offense" we were promised all off season.

[*Nately120*]

(09-20-2021, 10:57 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: My thoughts on the “don’t get burrow killed” mantra is that he is getting killed either way so we might as well go down shootin. It’s not like they saved him from a bunch of hits yesterday with the short game. If he’s gonna get killed either way, let’s take some shots while he still can walk.

I had to laugh along with this...what can ya do?

National Media in 2020 - Will the Bengals break Burrow?
Bengals fans in 2021 - Burrow is doomed, may as well go down swining.

[GreenCornBengal]

(09-20-2021, 11:08 AM)Big Boss Wrote: I appreciate his moxie, but he's displaying traits this year that are very uncharacteristic of him. He's standing still in the pocket, he's not going through progressions and he's staring down receivers. He just doesn't look like himself. Couple that with conservative play-calling in the passing game and this offense simply isn't working. It's certainly not the "explosive offense" we were promised all off season.

He had a few games last year that were similar with Balt and Pitt… I wouldn’t say it’s completely uncharacteristic… much like how we overreacted positively last week we are overreacting negatively this week. He’ll come out great in the next game or two and all of the sudden it will be same old Joe talk. Rollercoaster season ahead.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-20-2021, 09:52 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: I’ve noticed a lot of Bengals fans like Burrow so much that we are very soft on him sometimes. It’s okay to be critical of Burrow and still believe in his ability going forward. The reason that Cincinnati lost yesterday is because of Burrow. You can blame playcalling but Burrow threw those two awful interceptions. You can blame the coaches all you want but players play the game and Burrow made two backbreaking mistakes. The third interception was a combination of Burrow and OL but I’d say more OL than Burrow.

All of this okay. He is still young and coming off of a tough injury. He will learn and I still believe in the guy. He also almost brought us back yesterday, coupled with the defense. However, they lost because of him.

Someone in the game thread yesterday actually wondered if Burrow was a bust. 

You're right, btw. Just wanted to bring that up.

[740Bengal]

Too bad Zac Taylor is calling the plays. I almost have no hope at this point as long as this man is in charge.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-20-2021, 10:08 AM)Southpaw Frerotte Wrote: The LA Rams literally gave the Bengals the blueprint to beat the Bears (by stretching the field) the week before and it was never even a thought until the end of the 4th quarter.  

So you don't think the Bears were aware of what beat them and figured Cincy might try to do that too and so Chicago would do what they could to stop it?

[*Nately120*]

(09-20-2021, 11:13 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Someone in the game thread yesterday actually wondered if Burrow was a bust. 

You're right, btw. Just wanted to bring that up.

That's clearly an overreaction, but it's possible to see Burrow being on a path of being David Carr or that Browns guy....damn it, I'm not going to look it up....1st overall pick for the expansion Browns.  Damn it!

The point is, we are already speaking of Burrow with the same sort of "he was set up to fail" arguments that certain other not bust, but underachieving QBs are discussed with.  If we get Burrow hurt this year that'll be two for two and the ugly narrative is going to get savage.

[muskiesfan]

Burrow is going to have bad games. Even the great ones have/had bad games. He responded well though. However, Zac is not helping him at all. I understand he has the ability to audible, but he would need to audible damn near every play. Zac tips his hand. When Mixon is on the field, chances are good we are going to run. Empty sets take away play action and obviously Burrow isn't going to tuck and run right now. Zac is making all of the players jobs more difficult with his playcalling.

Add in that we didn't even attempt a pass over 11 yards until well into the 3rd quarter and you can't help but scratch your head. We have a very talented young QB. Say what you want about how good his arm is, but we surrounded him with weapons that can help push the ball down the field. Throw some screens to Mixon, make a couple of deep attempts each quarter to Chase and/or Higgins. Try to open things up. Waiting until late in the game is problematic. The defense was sitting on the short game.

[*PhilHos*]

(09-20-2021, 10:57 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: My thoughts on the “don’t get burrow killed” mantra is that he is getting killed either way so we might as well go down shootin. It’s not like they saved him from a bunch of hits yesterday with the short game. If he’s gonna get killed either way, let’s take some shots while he still can walk.

My thoughts exactly. 

[*PhilHos*]

(09-20-2021, 11:18 AM)Nately120 Wrote: That's clearly an overreaction, but it's possible to see Burrow being on a path of being David Carr or that Browns guy....damn it, I'm not going to look it up....1st overall pick for the expansion Browns.  Damn it!

The point is, we are already speaking of Burrow with the same sort of "he was set up to fail" arguments that certain other not bust, but underachieving QBs are discussed with.  If we get Burrow hurt this year that'll be two for two and the ugly narrative is going to get savage.

Call me a homer, but I think Burrow is capable of learning to overcome bad coaching. It's kinda already started with his ability to audible into great plays.

[Sled21]

(09-20-2021, 11:19 AM)muskiesfan Wrote: Add in that we didn't even attempt a pass over 11 yards until well into the 3rd quarter and you can't help but scratch your head. We have a very talented young QB. Say what you want about how good his arm is, but we surrounded him with weapons that can help push the ball down the field. Throw some screens to Mixon, make a couple of deep attempts each quarter to Chase and/or Higgins. Try to open things up. Waiting until late in the game is problematic. The defense was sitting on the short game.

If we are going to win this year, we are going to do it on the backs of Higgins, Boyd and Chase. Like I said in the other thread, I think last week scared Taylor when he saw Burrow limping off the field and is afraid to call the long ball.

[XenoMorph]

(09-20-2021, 11:21 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Call me a homer, but I think Burrow is capable of learning to overcome bad coaching. It's kinda already started with his ability to audible into great plays.

but just think if he didnt have to overcome such bad coaching...

[Southpaw Frerotte]

(09-20-2021, 10:25 AM)Nately120 Wrote: The blueprint LA provided for beating the Bears is to take a guy like Stafford out of Detroit and put him on a SB-caliber team with a SB-caliber coach.  Burrow airing it out sounds like fun, but also goes against our "Please don't let ZT get Burrow killed" mantra we had going until the game ended yesterday.

I'm just not sure Chase getting a long TD on a blown coverage once the game was (supposedly) in the bag is evidence Burrow trying to stay alive while long pass plays develop is the key to victory.  Then again, it would be more interesting for sure.

I'm confused.  Wasn't the point of using the 5th overall pick on a WR was to allow us to stretch the field?  Additionally, adding such a playmaker would protect Burrow (indirectly?) since he could release the ball earlier since someone would be open?  If it's not, the Bengals are even dumber than I thought and should have traded back and went interior line all day long.  

[Southpaw Frerotte]

(09-20-2021, 11:17 AM)PhilHos Wrote: So you don't think the Bears were aware of what beat them and figured Cincy might try to do that too and so Chicago would do what they could to stop it?

Who knows since the Bengals didn't even attempt it until the end of the 4th quarter.  

[*Nately120*]

(09-20-2021, 11:21 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Call me a homer, but I think Burrow is capable of learning to overcome bad coaching. It's kinda already started with his ability to audible into great plays.

Oh, I'm sure he can but that doesn't exactly bode well for the prospects of us locking him up for the next 10+ years if he is behind the eight ball here and watching other QBs enjoy the benefits of friendlier systems and organizations.

We're just falling right into that hater national media narrative that we're going to limit and/or break Burrow.  Unless the guy is insane he's going to get sick of trying to drag a franchise that doesn't want to help him or itself to win to glory.