The Offense

[fredtoast]

(09-27-2021, 09:51 AM)lone bengal Wrote:  Mixon had a huge long run to midfield and  on 1st and 10 we run Mixon for 1 yard and then run Perine up the middle on 2nd and 9 for no gain. Like what’s the thinking behind that play calling zero creativity and it made no sense to me.

Yeah, right.  We should have immediately abandoned the run as soon as we had a good one.

What could Taylor have been thinking?

[fredtoast]

(09-27-2021, 01:22 PM)lone bengal Wrote: The plan was to bring in Taylor as an offensive guru and then draft all these weapons like Chase so Taylor could exploit matchups with his creative play designs creating a dynamic offensive attack. I feel like the play designs are basic  and when we score it’s because are play makers are so talented they just overcome the coaching. Half are scoring plays are Chase TD’s and he just beats a guy on pure talent. Even the Boyd TD there was nothing elaborate Boyd just made a great play. Even when Higgins plays he just high points and boxes out a DB on a simple route. The playmakers bail out Taylor making him look way better versus Taylor putting them in successful situations.

This is just a case of you seeing what you want to see.

I don't know of any coach who has a receiver wide open every play.  And even the best coaches usually have great playmakers.

Believe me, I am far from jumping on the Taylor train.  Our offense has not been consistent at all.  This "banged up" Steeler defense held us to 3 of 9 on third downs and 268 total yards. But you can't just say "Everything positive is due to the players and everything negative is due to coaching".

[lone bengal]

(09-27-2021, 02:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yeah, right.  We should have immediately abandoned the run as soon as we had a good one.

What could Taylor have been thinking?

Never said abandon the run I was just stating you could use play action pass to your advantage and keep the defense guessing with a variety of play calls. You liked the 2nd and 9 run call to Perine and I didn’t we’ll leave it at.

[Benton]

I think it's an effort to not be one dimensional. And we've got a lot of work to do to accomplish that.

Right now, were good if we can throw the ball a ton and not worry about coverage. But we can't do that against every team.

It's like people calling for more play actions. To sell that, other teams have to worry about your running game. Right now, teams are only worried about where burrow is throwing it.

[KillerGoose]

(09-27-2021, 03:50 PM)Benton Wrote: I think it's an effort to not be one dimensional. And we've got a lot of work to do to accomplish that.

Right now, were good if we can throw the ball a ton and not worry about coverage. But we can't do that against every team.

It's like people calling for more play actions. To sell that, other teams have to worry about your running game. Right now, teams are only worried about where burrow is throwing it.

Not necessarily. There isn't much data that supports that an effective run game increases PA success. Defenses are generally going to react to a PA fake because the general threat of a run exists and an NFL RB is good enough to do damage if you don't cover your gaps. How well your run game is doing doesn't seem to predict PA success. Here is an article that Football Outsider's did on it. This doesn't mean that this logic is just false, but it should be 'questioned', as they put it. 

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/rushing-success-and-play-action-passing

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/further-research-play-action-passing

[fredtoast]

(09-27-2021, 03:44 PM)lone bengal Wrote:  You liked the 2nd and 9 run call to Perine and I didn’t we’ll leave it at.

in '20-'21 NFL teams have ran the ball on 2nd and 9 almost 30% of the time (28.5%).

I get that you don't agree with it, but you can't act like it is unbelievable that he would do it.

The people who question play calling the most have a huge benefit in that it is impossible to prove they are wrong because we will never know what would have happened if they got to call the play.

[WeezyBengal]

(09-27-2021, 04:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: in '20-'21 NFL teams have ran the ball on 2nd and 9 almost 30% of the time (28.5%).

I get that you don't agree with it, but you can't act like it is unbelievable that he would do it.

The people who question play calling the most have a huge benefit in that it is impossible to prove they are wrong because we will never know what would have happened if they got to call the play.

I have an issue with the play calling, but I also have an issue with the schemes as well. Our offense comes across as bland. We have guys that we need to get in space, but we fail to do so. 

The only time Chase touches the ball and makes big plays is on a go route. How about we involve him in more screens and get him the ball in space? Same with Mixon, get him involved more in the pass game. 

The offense is either a quick slant, a bomb to chase, or a Mixon off tackle run. I just worry about how one dimensional/hit or miss it can be. 

[*PhilHos*]

(09-27-2021, 04:11 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: I have an issue with the play calling, but I also have an issue with the schemes as well. Our offense comes across as bland. We have guys that we need to get in space, but we fail to do so. 

The only time Chase touches the ball and makes big plays is on a go route. How about we involve him in more screens and get him the ball in space? Same with Mixon, get him involved more in the pass game. 

The offense is either a quick slant, a bomb to chase, or a Mixon off tackle run. I just worry about how one dimensional/hit or miss it can be. 

I can remember Chase had 2 catches on crossing routes with one of them his 2nd TD catch.

[Essex Johnson]

(09-27-2021, 09:23 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Look, I'm happier than hell just like all of you that we won Sunday...but let's talk about the offense.

I'm still concerned. We are lucky that our defense turned over the Steelers and gave the offense really good field positioning Sunday because we couldn't move the ball for shit otherwise.

Is it just me, or does this offense perform BETTER when they are up against the clock and playing more up tempo? You saw it at the end of the Bears game and you saw it this week right before halftime with a minute left. I truly think we need to open it up and just cut them loose. Now I know there are a lot of variables to this (trying to protect Joe, trying to be a "running team", etc) but airing it out IS our identity. It's like we keep running away from it and trying to make it something it's not (being a running team).

I hope I'm not coming off as a downer after a big/fun win but I just think this offense still leaves a lot to be desired of and I think it can be taken to a whole new level with the skill players we have.

So let's think about Bears game on bears thinking they were up 20 to 3  middle 4th quarter they played soft plus one of TDs was like 30 yrd drive. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-27-2021, 09:23 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Look, I'm happier than hell just like all of you that we won Sunday...but let's talk about the offense.

I'm still concerned. We are lucky that our defense turned over the Steelers and gave the offense really good field positioning Sunday because we couldn't move the ball for shit otherwise.

Is it just me, or does this offense perform BETTER when they are up against the clock and playing more up tempo? You saw it at the end of the Bears game and you saw it this week right before halftime with a minute left. I truly think we need to open it up and just cut them loose. Now I know there are a lot of variables to this (trying to protect Joe, trying to be a "running team", etc) but airing it out IS our identity. It's like we keep running away from it and trying to make it something it's not (being a running team).

I hope I'm not coming off as a downer after a big/fun win but I just think this offense still leaves a lot to be desired of and I think it can be taken to a whole new level with the skill players we have.

Definitely a valid concern. I like what's going on but we cannot just put everything on our D like this.

Zac needs to either hand over the play calling to Brian or open it up himself. I love the run first attitude though.

It is a fine line.

[ezekiel23]

I saw an improved Joe Burrow in the game against the Steelers.He just looked more confident,and was showing signs that he is fully trusting his left knee.I don’t think he was 85% to start the season as he had claimed.This Offense is going to be better because of this.Of course getting Higgins back with the Offense is surely going to help as well.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-27-2021, 08:23 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: I saw an improved Joe Burrow in the game against the Steelers.He just looked more confident,and was showing signs that he is fully trusting his left knee.I don’t think he was 85% to start the season as he had claimed.This Offense is going to be better because of this.Of course getting Higgins back with the Offense is surely going to help as well.

That was a great run he had and it was a designed run you could tell.

Looking elusive something I wasn't sure I would see this year. Great to see this.

[ezekiel23]

(09-27-2021, 07:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Definitely a valid concern. I like what's going on but we cannot just put everything on our D like this.

Zac needs to either hand over the play calling to Brian or open it up himself. I love the run first attitude though.

It is a fine line.

You asked the question,Does this Offense perform BETTER when they are up against the clock and playing up tempo?You bet it does.That’s why I was so frustrated when this Offense played so vanilla and conservative against the Bears.Definitely a game we should have won.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-27-2021, 08:32 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: You asked the question,Does this Offense perform BETTER when they are up against the clock and playing up tempo?You bet it does.That’s why I was so frustrated when this Offense played so vanilla and conservative against the Bears.Definitely a game we should have won.

We are definitely better when playing up tempo on Offense.

Our Defense should of won us the Bears game for sure. We should be 3-0 but it was a good game to learn from.

The thing holding this Offense back certainly looks like play calling, we have the players. 

Zac needs to step aside and hand the calling over to Brian Callahan.

[Nicomo Cosca]

All I know is Burrow is actually hitting deep balls every game now, and that is very encouraging to me. The lack of explosive plays was really all that was missing from his game last season. Obviously a lot of it is Chase, but he’s throwing a much better long ball this year. And it feels like we’re a danger to score on any given play now.

One thing I wouldn’t mind seeing on offense though is getting Chris Evans more involved in the passing game.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-27-2021, 08:37 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: All I know is Burrow is actually hitting deep balls every game now, and that is very encouraging to me. The lack of explosive plays was really all that was missing from his game last season. Obviously a lot of it is Chase, but he’s throwing a much better long ball this year. And it feels like we’re a danger to score on any given play now.

One thing I wouldn’t mind seeing on offense though is getting Chris Evans more involved in the passing game.

Truth, we have the big plays now in the passing game and we need to see more of Evans. Screens please?

Saw the Browns beat the Bears with screens something we didn't try.

[NUGDUKWE]

The offense does seem to hit its spurts in games where we look borderline unstoppable then they seem to disappear. Usually end of 1st half beginning of 2nd some of this may be due to the fact 2 of our games we got up by a couple scores. In this game I just didn't like going empty at the end and felt it made the game a little scarier than it needed to be at the end. I just hope we keep learning things as an offense and continue to grow. I liked bringing in an extra lineman and that seemed to be a positive. I like spreading the ball around and targeting more players I know guys like Thomas and Tate aren't usually going to light the stat sheet up but a few 1st downs does alot. Also i think Carman has earned the right to keep getting start and the job is his to lose. Also Chris Evans looked good and should continue to get more targets. Again I think we should continue to target Mixon in the passing game.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-27-2021, 09:15 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: The offense does seem to hit its spurts in games where we look borderline unstoppable then they seem to disappear. Usually end of 1st half beginning of 2nd some of this may be due to the fact 2 of our games we got up by a couple scores. In this game I just didn't like going empty at the end and felt it made the game a little scarier than it needed to be at the end. I just hope we keep learning things as an offense and continue to grow. I liked bringing in an extra lineman and that seemed to be a positive. I like spreading the ball around and targeting more players I know guys like Thomas and Tate aren't usually going to light the stat sheet up but a few 1st downs does alot. Also i think Carman has earned the right to keep getting start and the job is his to lose. Also Chris Evans looked good and should continue to get more targets. Again I think we should continue to target Mixon in the passing game.

Still feels like we are just feeling what we might be able to do on Offense. It is a bit strange.

These games matter and only one phase of the team of the three is acting like it right now and that is the Defense.

Even Brandon Wilson isn't playing well right now on Kick Returns. Doesn't seem the same yet.

Darius Phillips has been looking like he might spring a Punt for a TD any moment though.

Think we are in for a show as the year goes on.

[samhain]

(09-27-2021, 09:35 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Still feels like we are just feeling what we might be able to do on Offense. It is a bit strange.

These games matter and only one phase of the team of the three is acting like it right now and that is the Defense.

Even Brandon Wilson isn't playing well right now on Kick Returns. Doesn't seem the same yet.

Darius Phillips has been looking like he might spring a Punt for a TD any moment though.

Think we are in for a show as the year goes on.

I agree with the first sentence.  

I think they're just starting to scratch the surface of what they can do once they grow into their own.  Burrow seemed like he was starting to settle in vs Pittsburgh.  

Chase has done enough at this point to make defenses legitimately fear what he capable of downfield.  Mixon started to gash Pittsburgh for big gains after that long touchdown pass.  Idk if that was coincidence or a result of the defense not being able to stack the box against him for fear of Chase.  it seems like it happened that way.  

Once defenses get a healthy fear of the offensive weaponry, it will just be a matter of taking what teams give.  This makes Chase's early success a major positive, not just for him, but for the entire direction of the offense.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-27-2021, 09:48 PM)samhain Wrote: I agree with the first sentence.  

I think they're just starting to scratch the surface of what they can do once they grow into their own.  Burrow seemed like he was starting to settle in vs Pittsburgh.  

Chase has done enough at this point to make defenses legitimately fear what he capable of downfield.  Mixon started to gash Pittsburgh for big gains after that long touchdown pass.  Idk if that was coincidence or a result of the defense not being able to stack the box against him for fear of Chase.  it seems like it happened that way.  

Once defenses get a healthy fear of the offensive weaponry, it will just be a matter of taking what teams give.  This makes Chase's early success a major positive, not just for him, but for the entire direction of the offense.

Seeing the the same, just have to say that I didn't expect Burrow to have a run like that against the Steelers.

That designed run was pretty wild after that injury he had last year. 

That could be the play that gives him the confidence he needs. Burrow looked elusive again.