Rapien and Pike lay it out

[ezekiel23]

(10-14-2021, 05:05 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: So is three wins then because of the playing calling ? or just the 2 losses? just wondering... coaches can't execute.. it is not just coaching, players are accountable also... the bengals have actually done a nice overall job of not playing behind the sticks, i read the article in paper today, they have averaged 3rd and 6 overall on 3rd downs which is a good percentage but we rank like 23rd in 3rd down efficiency... if both coaches and players more the bar 10 to 15 percent on 3rd down.. we are easily sitting at 4-1...

Just the 2 losses.We won the other 3 despite the bad play calling.Zac needs to start believing in,(trusting)his Elite franchise Quarterback,and his trio of elite Wide Receivers.Game is on the line in Overtime.Third and five.Very close to FG range.Desperately need a first down to ice the game.Perine runs for 3 yards.Missed FG.Put the ball,(Game),in Joe Burrows hands.Not Samaje Perine.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-14-2021, 08:57 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: Just the 2 losses.We won the other 3 despite the bad play calling.Zac needs to start believing in,(trusting)his Elite franchise Quarterback,and his trio of elite Wide Receivers.Game is on the line in Overtime.Third and five.Very close to FG range.Desperately need a first down to ice the game.Perine runs for 3 yards.Missed FG.Put the ball,(Game),in Joe Burrows hands.Not Samaje Perine.

Eh.... I'd blame him for GB. We shouldn't have been in the position to have to kick a game winner. Chicago? I gotta go with number 9 on that one. He had a rough game, and Tee fumbled another. I think we easily win that game without the turnovers. 

[Joelist]

Zac deserves some blame for Chicago too - it's his scheme and play calling that had the Bears VERY confident that the Bengals would only throw short and so they had 8+ in the box and sat on the short stuff.

Rapien is right - with the horses we have the offense should be averaging 30 per game - instead we are averaging 23 and that only because of Chase - take out his TD per game and it is pathetic. Everyone (and it is more than Rapien and Pike) has pointed to the same issues. The formations giving the play away, no misdirection, bunches, variations or anything to help the receivers get open and/or get pass rushes to hesitate. Just line up and expect everyone to win their matchups. This overly simple and vanilla offense is what Zac has done since his college days - and it fails everywhere.

[TheFan]

(10-14-2021, 09:14 PM)Wyche Wrote: Eh.... I'd blame him for GB. We shouldn't have been in the position to have to kick a game winner. Chicago? I gotta go with number 9 on that one. He had a rough game, and Tee fumbled another. I think we easily win that game without the turnovers. 

I'm pretty sure both Burrow and Chase called out the play calling in the Bears game telling ZT that they were sitting EVERYTHING yet it took him until the 4th quarter to finally change his play calling. 

Just because we're 3-2 doesn't mean it's because of ZT when we're a top 5 defense and bottom half offense. The defense has kept us in every game and we've been able to win but we should be winning all of these games going away (except maybe GB) with good play calling.

Again, it's not just Pike and Rapien calling out Taylor's play calling. It's not just the Bengals he has failed as a play caller; this is his 3rd attempt with equally bad results. 

I think Fred posted about how he's one of the only coaches ever to come in for a fired OC mid season and put up worse numbers. Miami fired Bill Lazor (a guy who everyone knows sucked here as OC) and then Taylor led the same team to even less ppg. 

In Miami he averaged 17.0 ppg.
2019 with Bengals averaged 17.4
2020 with Bengals averaged 19.4
2021 with Bengals averaged 22.8 and thats with an extra half of play compared to most teams.
That's who we have running our offense and you wonder why people think he might be the problem? 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-14-2021, 09:48 PM)TheFan Wrote: I'm pretty sure both Burrow and Chase called out the play calling in the Bears game telling ZT that they were sitting EVERYTHING yet it took him until the 4th quarter to finally change his play calling. 

Just because we're 3-2 doesn't mean it's because of ZT when we're a top 5 defense and bottom half offense. The defense has kept us in every game and we've been able to win but we should be winning all of these games going away (except maybe GB) with good play calling.

Again, it's not just Pike and Rapien calling out Taylor's play calling. It's not just the Bengals he has failed as a play caller; this is his 3rd attempt with equally bad results. 

I think Fred posted about how he's one of the only coaches ever to come in for a fired OC mid season and put up worse numbers. Miami fired Bill Lazor (a guy who everyone knows sucked here as OC) and then Taylor led the same team to even less ppg. 

That's who we have running our offense and you wonder why people think he might be the problem? 

I never said we're 3-2 because of Zac....lol. I'm not even saying he's good. However, I'm not inclined to blame a coach when you lose a close game after you turn the ball over 4 times, one of em being a pick six. 

I just try not let my perception be biased anymore. I used to, but now I just try to look at everything objectively. I think it's safe to say even with ol boy wonder, we're 4-1 if not for piss poor execution in the Windy City.

[TheFan]

(10-14-2021, 09:57 PM)Wyche Wrote: I never said we're 3-2 because of Zac....lol. I'm not even saying he's good. However, I'm not inclined to blame a coach when you lose a close game after you turn the ball over 4 times, one of em being a pick six. 

I just try not let my perception be biased anymore. I used to, but now I just try to look at everything objectively. I think it's safe to say even with ol boy wonder, we're 4-1 if not for piss poor execution in the Windy City.

Again though, no one is only basing it on this year. They're basing it on now almost 3 years of calling plays in the NFL and a year of college NCAA plays. He just hasn't shown at any point to be a good innovative offensive mind and a multitude of people are now putting a light on it. 

Burrows interceptions weren't good and he definitely deserves a lot of blame. I said in another thread he's been very average this year but the play calling makes it so much harder on him then it needs to be. Such as the Bears game where it can be argued the poor play calling partially led to some interceptions. This being due to the Bears sitting on every route because they knew what we were doing and then Burrow probably trying to force it. Again, that's on him but everyone who watched the game was appalled at the play calling. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-14-2021, 06:33 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I see an 8 win season there.

3 Already
+Lions
+Jets
+Steelers again
+Raiders
+49ers

Raiders was a bit more iffy a week or so ago, but I don't know how they'll react to their HC being both awful and fired.

If they stay healthy, i wouldn't be surprised to see them approach 10. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-14-2021, 10:06 PM)TheFan Wrote: Again though, no one is only basing it on this year. They're basing it on now almost 3 years of calling plays in the NFL and a year of college NCAA plays. He just hasn't shown at any point to be a good innovative offensive mind and a multitude of people are now putting a light on it. 

Burrows interceptions weren't good and he definitely deserves a lot of blame. I said in another thread he's been very average this year but the play calling makes it so much harder on him then it needs to be. Such as the Bears game where it can be argued the poor play calling partially led to some interceptions. This being due to the Bears sitting on every route because they knew what we were doing and then Burrow probably trying to force it. Again, that's on him but everyone who watched the game was appalled at the play calling. 

I'd agree with that. The play calling is suspect for sure.

There are improvements too, lack of penalties (exception of one game) shows good discipline. They're now at least winning some. I'd say Minny beats them, and maybe the Bears, definitely the Stoolers the last few years. In years past, JAX is probably the only win so far. They do play together and play hard. Pike noted some of that too. I'd personally like to see him relinquish play calling duties and stick to the rest of his responsibilities if he's going to stay. 

They've done pretty well drafting/picking FAs. Now they just need to get the most out of those assets. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(10-14-2021, 06:58 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: Man people here must think really highly of our players if they think Zac and Co are this bad. I mean we’re 3-2 with two losses by 3 points each. And had several chances to beat GB if the players execute. This team is so good they can blow countless chances against the packers, burrow can gift the packers the ball AND overcome the worst coaches ever to still barely lose by 3 at the end of OT. Must be the greatest collection of talent of ALL TIME! What a job done by Mike and Duke?!?! If it weren’t for the bum coaches we’d be 20-0 and Super Bowl champs this year

I'm sensing...sarcasm?

[TheFan]

(10-14-2021, 10:16 PM)Wyche Wrote: I'd agree with that. The play calling is suspect for sure.

There are improvements too, lack of penalties (exception of one game) shows good discipline. They're now at least winning some. I'd say Minny beats them, and maybe the Bears, definitely the Stoolers the last few years. In years past, JAX is probably the only win so far. They do play together and play hard. Pike noted some of that too. I'd personally like to see him relinquish play calling duties and stick to the rest of his responsibilities if he's going to stay. 

They've done pretty well drafting/picking FAs. Now they just need to get the most out of those assets. 

I agree with most of that as well. I think he and the team would be better off with him being more of a traditional head coach like Marvin Lewis. I don't think he's a terrible HC given, like you stated, the players he has brought in, the effort the team gives, more disciplined, etc. 

Unfortunately his unwillingness to give up the playcalling is a big indictment on him though. 

[*Go Cards*]

(10-14-2021, 10:16 PM)Wyche Wrote: I'd agree with that. The play calling is suspect for sure.

There are improvements too, lack of penalties (exception of one game) shows good discipline. They're now at least winning some. I'd say Minny beats them, and maybe the Bears, definitely the Stoolers the last few years. In years past, JAX is probably the only win so far. They do play together and play hard. Pike noted some of that too. I'd personally like to see him relinquish play calling duties and stick to the rest of his responsibilities if he's going to stay. 

They've done pretty well drafting/picking FAs. Now they just need to get the most out of those assets. 

Agree with this post and just about everything Pike had to say in video as well. 

[fredtoast]

It has been a weird season for the offense. We have a lot more talent than we did last year, but Burrow has also played a couple of games that looked worse than last year. Burrow could have easily had 4 picks against Green Bay, and opening day he bounced a pass off a defenders hands that Boyd caught.

Our Offensive line is better, but still not good. We still have holes in the middle at RG an OC, but our OTs and Spain are playing MUCH better than last year. Run blocking is okay, but it stinks in short yardage situations. We are 31st in the league in converting third-and-short (1-2 yds) I think we just need to start throwing on those short yardage situations. Pass blocking is a little better than it looked early on. On Burrow's first 10 sacks this year he had at least 3 seconds to throw the ball. But Green Bay was getting way too much pressure. I really like the potential of both Carman and Smith, but I don't think we will get anything really impressive from either of them this year. Hopefully it will work out like '11 when Boling was forced to start as a rookie and struggled.

At TE Uzomah is a HUGE upgrade over Sample.

Last year A J Green put up some of the worst numbers in history for a WR with at least 100 targets. We replaced one of the worst with one of the very best in Chase. Boyd and Higgins are good enough to give us one of the best trios in the league.

Mixon is running well except in the crucial short yardage.

Burrow is one of the most talented QBs in the league. He just needs to be more consistent.

I am not saying we are a 30 point a game team. That is top 5 in the league. But we we should be doing a lot better than we are. Despite playing 2 overtime periods we are still just 18th in points and 25th in yards. That is LAME for the talent we have.

And finally, just because I criticize the coaches the most that does not mean the players don't have to step it up also. Against the Packers there were big drops by Chase, Higgins, and Sample. The holding penalty of Spain killed a drive. Burrow makes some terrible throws. if we had beaten the Packers this board would be sparkling like a new diamond and the media would be all over us. It is strange to think that any one of those minor mistakes might have made the difference in an overtime game.

[*jason*]

(10-14-2021, 10:16 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: I'd agree with that. The play calling is suspect for sure.

There are improvements too, lack of penalties (exception of one game) shows good discipline. They're now at least winning some. I'd say Minny beats them, and maybe the Bears, definitely the Stoolers the last few years. In years past, JAX is probably the only win so far. They do play together and play hard. Pike noted some of that too. I'd personally like to see him relinquish play calling duties and stick to the rest of his responsibilities if he's going to stay. 

They've done pretty well drafting/picking FAs. Now they just need to get the most out of those assets. 

For sure... Green Bay blows this team out last year. All of the really good teams we played did. Tennessee was the exception, and I honestly still don't know how we beat them. I figured they'd slaughter us because they got hammered by Buffalo the previous week.

[Murdock2420]

Do I think Taylor is the best option for coach? No.

Do I think Taylor is a better option and knows more about football than Tony Pike, Rapien and every single poster on this board? Yes, 100% certain.

[TheFan]

(10-15-2021, 02:04 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Do I think Taylor is the best option for coach? No.

Do I think Taylor is a better option and knows more about football than Tony Pike, Rapien and every single poster on this board? Yes, 100% certain.

Looking at his terrible offensive numbers and overall record I would say he doesn't know as much as he thinks he does. 

Again, it's not just forum posters, Tony Pike, or Rapien that are calling him out. Also, since when does a former NFL QB not have the credibility needed to be able to make comments about the offense?

[grampahol]

(10-14-2021, 06:58 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: Man people here must think really highly of our players if they think Zac and Co are this bad. I mean we’re 3-2 with two losses by 3 points each. And had several chances to beat GB if the players execute. This team is so good they can blow countless chances against the packers, burrow can gift the packers the ball AND overcome the worst coaches ever to still barely lose by 3 at the end of OT. Must be the greatest collection of talent of ALL TIME! What a job done by Mike and Duke?!?! If it weren’t for the bum coaches we’d be 20-0 and Super Bowl champs this year

That's what I'm thinking.. The entire team minus the coaches are all going to be in the probowl this year..

[t3r3e3]

(10-14-2021, 09:48 PM)TheFan Wrote: I'm pretty sure both Burrow and Chase called out the play calling in the Bears game telling ZT that they were sitting EVERYTHING yet it took him until the 4th quarter to finally change his play calling. 

Just because we're 3-2 doesn't mean it's because of ZT when we're a top 5 defense and bottom half offense. The defense has kept us in every game and we've been able to win but we should be winning all of these games going away (except maybe GB) with good play calling.

Again, it's not just Pike and Rapien calling out Taylor's play calling. It's not just the Bengals he has failed as a play caller; this is his 3rd attempt with equally bad results. 

I think Fred posted about how he's one of the only coaches ever to come in for a fired OC mid season and put up worse numbers. Miami fired Bill Lazor (a guy who everyone knows sucked here as OC) and then Taylor led the same team to even less ppg. 

In Miami he averaged 17.0 ppg.
2019 with Bengals averaged 17.4
2020 with Bengals averaged 19.4
2021 with Bengals averaged 22.8 and thats with an extra half of play compared to most teams.
That's who we have running our offense and you wonder why people think he might be the problem? 

He sucked as UC’s OC too. Zac’s track record of offensive production is poor, just like his win/loss record. Dude says all the right things, but fails to produce.

[*SHRacerX*]

(10-14-2021, 04:28 PM)Joelist Wrote: https://youtu.be/zV1XAfTbFL4

And...they agree almost to the letter with what some of us have been saying - the issue with the offense is not the players it is the coaching and the game planning and situational football.

Tony Pike doesn't know anything about football, blah, blah, blah...

He probably only read something on "Football for Dummies", blah, blah, blah....

He only watches youtube videos, blah, blah, blah...

I have been patient, and called this the "no excuses" season.  ZT either gets points going this week or he should be done with playcalling.  If he won't pass it off and struggles the rest of the year, he should be gone.  End of story.  

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-14-2021, 10:22 PM)TheFan Wrote: I agree with most of that as well. I think he and the team would be better off with him being more of a traditional head coach like Marvin Lewis. I don't think he's a terrible HC given, like you stated, the players he has brought in, the effort the team gives, more disciplined, etc. 

Unfortunately his unwillingness to give up the playcalling is a big indictment on him though. 

Yes, exactly my view.

[impactplaya]

(10-15-2021, 02:04 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Do I think Taylor is the best option for coach? No.

Do I think Taylor is a better option and knows more about football than Tony Pike, Rapien and every single poster on this board? Yes, 100% certain.

Zac Taylor comes from a football family.every day of his life since he was knee high football was
The idenity of his surroundings
He spends 16-hrs a day breaking down film etc etc
But he still looks like he is in over his head 
Do you see growth as a HC..I dont 
But in 3-years I have yet to see all this football
Knowledge and acumen translate accordingly
to innovation and success. 
Just because you are a NFL HC doesnt make you 
The smartest guy in the room regarding football.

In fact Zac Taylor is not as advertised. The Bengals 
F.O got.caught up in.the moment with Zac.
No other team needing a HC at that time had Zac 
As " we gotta get this guy!"

When Zac gets fired it will be his first and last
NFL HC gig.