Sweet Lou's Greatest Gift

[fredtoast]

(10-27-2021, 12:54 PM)Tomkat Wrote: ...and you know this... HOW?

Remember, you're not an NFL coach or coordinator, so you don't get to decide what "misused" 

Interview with Dunlap father.


As I have said many times here I don't claim to know more than any NFL coach but I can see production and results on the field. Dunlap was more productive than the guys he got benched behind and the defense was worse without him.

[dr tarzan]

(10-27-2021, 11:29 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Dunlap did not care about individual stats. He cared about winning.

Nothing Lou did last year had anything to do with winning.  He benched Dunlap below inferior players and the defense suffered because of it.

I think Carlos got himself benched.   Mainly due to his Jekyll and Hyde play.   Some games he was absolutely dominant game wrecker.....then disappear.    He started giving up on pass rushes to lay back and try to swat down passes, at which he admittedly excelled, but that wasn't his primary function, relentlessly getting to the QB was.

[Clark W Griswold]

This doesn’t mean everyone has the Ravens figured out. Props to Lou but you have to have the players to execute the plan. If your D Line is good enough to apply consistent pressure from the outside while holding up the middle and giving Lamar nowhere to go, then yes you will have success vs them.

The D tackles were the unsung heroes of that game. They got push/leverage up the middle so that the ends could get to Lamar because he had nowhere to go.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-26-2021, 10:37 AM)Sled21 Wrote: https://www.bengals.com/news/quick-hits-bengals-defense-flexing-top-ten-muscle-saturday-night-live-for-inspir

Lou's greatest gift to Bengaldom is he just gave every Defensive Co-0rdinator the blueprint for shutting down the Ravens. Every team going forward that puts an "L" on Baltimore helps us. This article on the home page has some very interesting quotes.


It may have been inadvertent, but this statement by Chido is a direct shot  at you, Carlos Dunlap and WJIII. Lou asked this defense to do things they didn't understand and did not usually do. The difference is that THIS group bought in and did what they were asked, and were rewarded with a resounding beatdown of the Ratbirds.


This is absolutely a direct shot at you Carlos Dunlap. You refused to be a team player and only wanted to chase your individual stats.

Yeah, this is what happens when your players are all in and just want to win. They will get their stats anyways, but you need
to play to the game plan and stay in your gap on the DL and do your job no matter your position. I also saw how we rotated in
big ole Tupou and BJ Hill in there and we didn't miss a beat while resting Reader and Ogunjobi. Same with Cam Sample and Ray.

Cannot wait to see this Defense with just one more pass rushing End in Kareem soon enough.

It is a nice blueprint other Defenses can now try and use to just help us out from here on when Lamar plays no question.

[Sled21]

(10-27-2021, 01:07 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yeah, they had me confused as to what they were doing for sure. They also kinda sorta bottled them up in game one last season, but our offense couldn't get out of its own way. The second game was a MASH unit for the whole 22. 

That's what I personally think happened. Lou had some things he wanted done a certain, albeit unorthodox way, and some older players just didn't want to do it or couldn't do it. Because, let's face it, he doesn't look much like a "stupid coach" this year.

Well one things is the ends were not supposed to push more than a couple of feet past the line of scrimmage, then turn in, instead of going wide and leaving their running lane open.

[Sled21]

(10-27-2021, 12:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Coaches did not want Dunlap after the 2019 season. Front office did not agree. So coaches misused Dunlap to force front office to get rid of him.

Misuses him by asking him to do exactly what Hubbard is doing this year? I believe the word is "use" not misuse.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-27-2021, 05:48 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Misuses him by asking him to do exactly what Hubbard is doing this year? I believe the word is "use" not misuse.

Hubbard just started getting his cause yeah, he was sealing that edge all season, allowing Trey, Ogunjobi and company to get
to the QB over and over. Completely unselfish all about the team play. In the end it is about doing your job, trusting the system 
to work well and that results in winning at least on your side of the ball.

Over pursuing is the worst thing an End can do in the NFL. You might be able to get away with it in college by being just a 
superior athlete but not in the NFL. You over pursue and QB's and RB's make the entire Defense pay as you left your gap.

This is exactly what Lou is saying. We were going to maintain our gaps and close the pocket while sealing the edge.

Worked beautifully.

[Sled21]

(10-27-2021, 01:37 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Interview with Dunlap father.


As I have said many times here I don't claim to know more than any NFL coach but I can see production and results on the field. Dunlap was more productive than the guys he got benched behind and the defense was worse without him.

I remember him, he's the guy that told Zimmer to keep his boot in Carlos' butt to keep him from being lazy and taking plays off.

And it appears Zimmer also told Dunlap to play the way he wanted to or he wouldn't play. Of course, this was before Dunlap was ultra rich.
Dig deep and Zimmer still at heart of Bengals defense

Quote:Carlos Dunlap won't pick up the phone to call Zimmer. But he'll still sing his praises.

"Not a very friendly guy," Dunlap recalled this week. "I feel like he helped me as a young player. Very blunt. He told me what I needed to work on. There was no gray area. Very adamant. You won't play until you fix it. There's your motivation."

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-27-2021, 01:13 PM)Au165 Wrote: That off sticks look was new this year and I think it was because when they sent a +1 rush they knew Lamar was going to have to get it out hot or run and this allowed the secondary to play run support while watching their guys in the 1st 10 yards. It was brilliant, like seriously not trying to be to hyperbolic here but that was an innovative approach to a scrambling QB that I think is going to really catch on. 

Agreed. It takes a lot of discipline to execute I'd wager. So hat's off to the players as well. With all of Zac's shortcomings as a play caller, his choices in personnel on the field are pretty damn good.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-27-2021, 02:45 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: This doesn’t mean everyone has the Ravens figured out. Props to Lou but you have to have the players to execute the plan.  If your D Line is good enough to apply consistent pressure from the outside while holding up the middle and giving Lamar nowhere to go, then yes you will have success vs them.

The D tackles were the unsung heroes of that game. They got push/leverage up the middle so that the ends could get to Lamar because he had nowhere to go.

Gap integrity, but remember, at least three of those sacks were due to coverage as well. That was one of the best *team* defensive games I've seen. Great discipline, and execution.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-27-2021, 04:27 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Yeah, this is what happens when your players are all in and just want to win. They will get their stats anyways, but you need
to play to the game plan and stay in your gap on the DL and do your job no matter your position. I also saw how we rotated in
big ole Tupou and BJ Hill in there and we didn't miss a beat while resting Reader and Ogunjobi. Same with Cam Sample and Ray.

Cannot wait to see this Defense with just one more pass rushing End in Kareem soon enough.

It is a nice blueprint other Defenses can now try and use to just help us out from here on when Lamar plays no question.

Imagine when Ossai returns....

[Benton]

(10-27-2021, 11:29 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Dunlap did not care about individual stats. He cared about winning.

Nothing Lou did last year had anything to do with winning.  He benched Dunlap below inferior players and the defense suffered because of it.

I'm not really following the second graf.

Lou tried to change up what folks were doing. Some folks (like Dunlap) didn't agree with the changes, and we didn't gain much ground. 

Now we're playing guys doing what the coach is asking and we've got a much improved defense.

I think Dunlap was a solid player last year, but if the game is an instruction manual and one guy is on Page 37 while everyone else is on page 15, then it's not going to work. Dunlap wanted to pick his page, and that hurt the team. I was good with the trade then and I'm better with it now considering the nonfactor he's become. 

[Tony]

1 thing I've noticed about Lou's defense against Lamar.. He would bring Logan and Gaither on a blitz but only for like a second or 2 and they would drop back out and it was confusing the hell out of Lamar. He never knew when they were coming or backing out. Lamar also threw a pick on the first 4th down they went for it in the 4th quarter. I have loved and I mean loved Lous scheme and calls this year...

[fredtoast]

(10-27-2021, 08:53 PM)Sled21 Wrote: And it appears Zimmer also told Dunlap to play the way he wanted to or he wouldn't play. Of course, this was before Dunlap was ultra rich.
Dig deep and Zimmer still at heart of Bengals defense

Perfect example of what I was talking about.  Zimmer treated players fairly and they responded with great play.  Clearly if Dunlap was the problem then he would have quit on Zimmer.

Don't know what you consider "ultra-rich" or what that even has to do with anything, but Dunlap had earned over $40 million by the time Zimmer made these comments to him.

BTW I want to move on from discussing Dunlap.  I am hoping that Lou has learned something about coaching.  Bates said that Lou has learned from some of his mistakes regarding communicating with his players.  It is a shame the Bengals had to suffer while he learned, but I am hoping that he will be a better coach moving forward.  I would rather look forward hoping for success than keep bashing him for his previous mistakes.

[Sled21]

(10-28-2021, 08:29 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Perfect example of what I was talking about.  Zimmer treated players fairly and they responded with great play.  Clearly if Dunlap was the problem then he would have quit on Zimmer.

Don't know what you consider "ultra-rich" or what that even has to do with anything, but Dunlap had earned over $40 million by the time Zimmer made these comments to him.

BTW I want to move on from discussing Dunlap.  I am hoping that Lou has learned something about coaching.  Bates said that Lou has learned from some of his mistakes regarding communicating with his players.  It is a shame the Bengals had to suffer while he learned, but I am hoping that he will be a better coach moving forward.  I would rather look forward hoping for success than keep bashing him for his previous mistakes.

Zimmer told Dunlap play the way you're supposed to or you don't play= Great Defensive coach.
Lou tells Dunlap play the way you're supposed to or you don't play= horrible coach.

Yeah, I bet you do....

[fredtoast]

(10-28-2021, 08:33 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Zimmer told Dunlap play the way you're supposed to or you don't play= Great Defensive coach.
Lou tells Dunlap play the way you're supposed to or you don't play= horrible coach.

Yeah, I bet you do....

Zimmer knew what he was talking about.  Lou did not.

Zimmer knew how to communicate with players.  Lou did not.

Zimmer played the best, most productive players to help the team win.  Lou did not.

Zimmer would have had the #1 defense in the league every year if he got half of the free agent talent that Lou has been given.

Like I said, Lou seems to have fixed the problems Bates said he had.  I want to go forward with more positive hopes on his coaching ability.  But as long as you try to compare Lou's coaching ability last year to Mike Zimmer I will mock your opinion.

[Sled21]

Ok....

[SunsetBengal]

(10-27-2021, 11:29 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Dunlap did not care about individual stats. He cared about winning.

Nothing Lou did last year had anything to do with winning.  He benched Dunlap below inferior players and the defense suffered because of it.

(10-27-2021, 12:27 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Coaches did not want Dunlap after the 2019 season. Front office did not agree. So coaches misused Dunlap to force front office to get rid of him.

Hey Magic 8 Ball, can you also give me the winning lottery numbers for tomorrow night's drawing?  

[fredtoast]

(10-28-2021, 09:06 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Hey Magic 8 Ball, can you also give me the winning lottery numbers for tomorrow night's drawing?  

Don't know what this is supposed to even mean.

The comments I made were based on an interview with Dunlap's father and the facts of how our defense performed last year.

[Sled21]

(10-28-2021, 09:17 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Don't know what this is supposed to even mean.

The comments I made were based on an interview with Dunlap's father and the facts of how our defense performed last year.

Serious question... Did you expect Dunlap's father to take Lou's side in any part of that discussion, or would you expect him to say what Carlos told him?