Carman Injury

[Sled21]

(11-04-2021, 11:08 AM)mikey6866 Wrote: Id love to get Tyler but I do expect him to be gone when we pick.  The name to look out for is Dohnovan West.  He is a guard/center out of ASU.  Hes going to be a center at the NFL level and like linderbaum hes a great athlete but slightly undersized and they both have wresting backgrounds.

That said if i had to guess our pick right now id say sauce gardner is gonna be high on bengals wishlist.

After the Jets game, it's obvious one thing we do not need is another underrsized Center. We need to go massive.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-04-2021, 12:45 PM)Garrus Wrote: That would be amazing, but I doubt he makes it to us, unless we completely fall apart the rest of the season. 

There also isn't really another C I'd consider in Rd 1 at this point either, so I'd probably lean toward a versatile OT/OG, CB, or DL if they can't get Linderbaum. Probably to be safe, it'd be good to try to upgrade C in FA.

[HarleyDog]

(11-04-2021, 01:04 PM)Sled21 Wrote: After the Jets game, it's obvious one thing we do not need is another underrsized Center. We need to go massive.

Shelvin 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-04-2021, 01:04 PM)Sled21 Wrote: After the Jets game, it's obvious one thing we do not need is another underrsized Center. We need to go massive.

False.

We need someone strong-enough and with enough anchor.

Doesn't have to be someone, "massive."

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(11-04-2021, 01:04 PM)Sled21 Wrote: After the Jets game, it's obvious one thing we do not need is another underrsized Center. We need to go massive.

Trey Hopkins is heavier than Corey Linsley, Frank Ragnow, Jason Kelce, Ryan Kelly, or Alex Mack. 

[mikey6866]

(11-04-2021, 01:04 PM)Sled21 Wrote: After the Jets game, it's obvious one thing we do not need is another underrsized Center. We need to go massive.

Not sure why you think this.  I've seen a million cases of a 300 lb c with better anchor than counterparts who are much bigger.  It's not all about size. It's all about technique and being able to use leverage and power.   Very few "massive centers" would be able to play at a high level in a wide zone scheme.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-01-2021, 10:32 AM)ochocincos Wrote: With the potential injury concern with Carman, the Bengals might want to try to make a move before Tuesday's trade deadline for an IOL.

Yeah, this sucks if it is serious. Have to make a move for depth anyways behind Trey Hill at RG.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-04-2021, 01:52 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: False.

We need someone strong-enough and with enough anchor.

Doesn't have to be someone, "massive."

Lindenbaum is undersized and is the best OL prospect in the Nation at Center IMO.

Agree, size doesn't matter that much as long as the player has great technique and knows how to use leverage which Lindenbaum
has. Doubt he lasts until our pick but he was my hope in the 1st in the Draft. With Hopkins he is clearly not 100% and he has never
been much of a mauler in the run game. He is usually a good pass protector when healthy and that is it.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-04-2021, 02:11 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Lindenbaum is undersized and is the best OL prospect in the Nation at Center IMO.

Agree, size doesn't matter that much as long as the player has great technique and knows how to use leverage which Lindenbaum
has. Doubt he lasts until our pick but he was my hope in the 1st in the Draft. With Hopkins he is clearly not 100% and he has never
been much of a mauler in the run game. He is usually a good pass protector when healthy and that is it.

Hopkins, pre-injury, had the identical skill set for what I would picture an old school LG in a pass-heavy scheme.
I always pictured the right side to be more about road grading maulers running the ball and the left side being about pass protecting the blind side of the QB.

The game has shifted though where you need people who are good both in pass protection and the run game in all positions.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

Those huge Cowboy lines in the 90s had Mark Stepnoski at 6-2, 270 playing Center.

Those awesome, yet undersized lines of the late 90s Broncos had Tom Nalen, 6-3 , 286. Anyone that remembers this line knows that technique was the quality that those coaches were looking for over anything else. They ran over everybody.

As already addressed above, a good anchor, balance and technique are the trademarks of a great Center. Size and strength are great but meaningless if you don't have any of the other three.

[iowahwky4cincy]

(11-04-2021, 01:04 PM)Sled21 Wrote: After the Jets game, it's obvious one thing we do not need is another underrsized Center. We need to go massive.

If the Bengals were fortunate enough to be in a position to draft Linderbaum, they should do it without hesitation. He is an absolute animal, and would be an instant upgrade at center. He's played guard at times during his Iowa career, so there's versatility. Iowa has been known as an NFL o-line factory since Kirk Ferentz became head coach, so he'll be well prepared.

[Sled21]

(11-04-2021, 02:02 PM)mikey6866 Wrote: Not sure why you think this.  I've seen a million cases of a 300 lb c with better anchor than counterparts who are much bigger.  It's not all about size. It's all about technique and being able to use leverage and power.   Very few "massive centers" would be able to play at a high level in a wide zone scheme.

Anchor in pass pro is one thing, being able to push Defensive tackles down the field in the run game is something else. A smaller guy has to be wicked strong to make up for the lack of mass. Yes, leverage and technique help, but the other guy is taught leverage and technique and is a pro as well.

[mikey6866]

(11-05-2021, 08:28 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Anchor in pass pro is one thing, being able to push Defensive tackles down the field in the run game is something else. A smaller guy has to be wicked strong to make up for the lack of mass. Yes, leverage and technique help, but the other guy is taught leverage and technique and is a pro as well.

Huh? I can show you 50 dudes that all weigh 300 LBS and have 50 different body compositions and varying levels of strength.   Size is not nearly as important as you are saying.  Each player should be graded as an individual.  There are tons and tons of guys that weigh 290 that are better people movers / better anchor than others that may weigh 320.  That being said most "massiive" olineman will not have the necessary movement skills to fit within our scheme.   West is 6'3.5" and about 300 lbs.  Its not like hes a tiny center or something.  Also everybody will be taught technique at every level of football, Id assume this is a given but some are going to be naturally better than others at applying said technique and leverage.  A 290 lb center with great athleticism can get up on defender quicker and get the positioning needed and then if they are using outstanding technique and leverage he will generally be a much better people mover than a 320 lb center that has lazy feet and bad technique.  Our scheme is not meant to be a people mover man power gap scheme.  We run a wide zone which ideally would have strong olineman that are very athletic.  Its more about beating defenders to a spot and walling them off to create big gaps or lanes, if your massive guy that cant get to spot in time the play is usually dead in water from jump.  In every scheme your going to have variations of plays where you can run some power gap stuff but in a wide zone massive olineman usually suck because they cant beat their man to the spot and rushing lanes dont even get the chance to develop.  If you can find a massive guy that has unreal athletic ability obvi that would be ideal but theres very few guys that fit this description.  Drafting olineman is hard...you are always looking for guys that have a great blend of athleticism and strength but it boils down to technique and leverage at the end of the day.  Those will be the guys that win consistantly on game day.