Elephant in the Room

[Murdock2420]

(11-07-2021, 11:45 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Yeah he had a rough little run there.

And it continues. Stafford looks bad, and his LG is just absolutely useless letting guys walk right past him into the backfield.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-07-2021, 11:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The first post quoted is from today. 

I'm not familiar with any agenda against you. I was just pointing out the fallacy.

But I agree Burrow is not Dalton bad,,,but he's trending that way,

“I never do” was not accurate, so good on you for pointing that out.
I do try to avoid it for the most part though, as it’s boring, and it’s been done to death for a decade+ now.

The agenda is more about Burrow replacing their guy, not about me (although it’s a little of that with one of these individuals). I can dig up some absolute beauties like the thread bashing Burrow for smoking a cigar after the NCG ( ) if you don’t believe me that it existed even before he played a single snap in the NFL.

[*michaelsean*]

Just compare Joe to the more recent 1OA QBs. We have Winston, Goff, Baker, Murray, Joe then Trevor.

[Joelist]

The attacks on Andy were frequently both vicious and personal in nature, which is ridiculous as he was not only a model citizen off the field but did a LOT for the community. They made the old forums unreadable.

Burrow is getting ragged about the poor decision making BECAUSE he came in as a #1OA generational prospect specifically lauded for his instincts, intellect and decision making. We were sold on something different than we are seeing and want the Burrow the scouting reports gushed about.

[Frank Booth]

(11-07-2021, 11:48 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: “I never do” was not accurate, so good on you for pointing that out.
I do try to avoid it for the most part though, as it’s boring, and it’s been done to death for a decade+ now.

The agenda is more about Burrow replacing their guy, not about me (although it’s a little of that with one of these individuals). I can dig up some absolute beauties like the thread bashing Burrow for smoking a cigar after the NCG ( ) if you don’t believe me that it existed even before he played a single snap in the NFL.

Give it a rest, champ

You have school in the morning

[Murdock2420]

(11-07-2021, 11:30 PM)bfine32 Wrote: The first post quoted is from today. 

I'm not familiar with any agenda against you. I was just pointing out the fallacy.

But I agree Burrow is not Dalton bad,,,but he's trending that way,

It's really early to see a trend in his career. 

Are the INTs a concern, sure they have to be but the guy just played game 17 of his career. He could trend to Dalton, but he could also trend to Favre who I loved as a QB. However, that dude was a turnover machine, he was able to overcome them with making more big plays then negative plays. Time will tell which way it goes with Joe but right now it's too early to say anything more than he needs to be more careful with the ball.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(11-07-2021, 11:52 PM)Joelist Wrote: Burrow is getting ragged about the poor decision making BECAUSE he came in as a #1OA generational prospect specifically lauded for his instincts, intellect and decision making. We were sold on something different than we are seeing and want the Burrow the scouting reports gushed about.

^^^THIS!^^^

[Murdock2420]

(11-07-2021, 11:52 PM)Joelist Wrote: The attacks on Andy were frequently both vicious and personal in nature, which is ridiculous as he was not only a model citizen off the field but did a LOT for the community. They made the old forums unreadable.

Burrow is getting ragged about the poor decision making BECAUSE he came in as a #1OA generational prospect specifically lauded for his instincts, intellect and decision making. We were sold on something different than we are seeing and want the Burrow the scouting reports gushed about.

I remember when he was booed at the celebrity softball game. That was such a bad look for Bengals fans, I get booing the guy on the field during a game but that is where that stuff needs to stay. You don't hassle him or his family at a charity event or while they are just out getting groceries. Dude was a stand-up guy.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-07-2021, 11:44 PM)jj22 Wrote: Me? Nico why keep trying to drag me into your mess of a debate with Frank et al. Why turn fire my direction when I really have nothing to do with your side convo. 

I surely ain't about to help you dig yourself out the hole. No disrespect. I did my part trying to warn you to not bang the table so hard as you walked right into the trap. 

Recognize help when it's offered. 

Your “Dalton is better than Burrow” hot take is going to age as well as your Chase thread did…

Both guys are not playing well right now. And guys like you will jump all over it. They’ll be balling out again soon enough though.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-07-2021, 11:42 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I try to forget him.... I really do.

Not sure we have anyone on here that is at that level.

I do remember the later years the debate about the INTs. I thought the question was more about during the same time frame of the careers between Burrow and Dalton. Like you said in your reply and Kettering pointed out as well, the team was winning and Dalton came in with lower expectations and kind of surprised a lot of people with his play.

I think the few guys who seem most critical of Burrow are doing it for one of two reasons, they are just used to the Bengals not having nice things and believe Burrow will struggle being in this system or the other option. There have been some posters on this board the past few years making claims about how this player fixes the team, and this is the way it has to be and etc, etc. Now some posters are pushing back at that small group, at least that is what it reads like (I hope sometimes) when I look at the comments that I think are just trying to get a rise out of the "experts".

Tbh, I think when Dalton hit 0-2 in the playoffs is when the debate really went nuclear, and that was year 2. There was definitely some naysayers way before that though.

[Frank Booth]

(11-07-2021, 11:56 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Your “Dalton is better than Burrow” hot take is going to age as well as your Chase thread did…

Both guys are not playing well right now. And guys like you will jump all over it. They’ll be balling out again soon enough though.

Oh my god, you’re still mentioning the old quarterback LMAO

[*bfine32*]

(11-07-2021, 11:53 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote:
It's really early to see a trend in his career. 

Are the INTs a concern, sure they have to be but the guy just played game 17 of his career. He could trend to Dalton, but he could also trend to Favre who I loved as a QB. However, that dude was a turnover machine, he was able to overcome them with making more big plays then negative plays. Time will tell which way it goes with Joe but right now it's too early to say anything more than he needs to be more careful with the ball.

So do you think he's going to be a good NFL QB or is it too early?

Personally I think he's going to be great, but he needs some help and it's not the oline. I'd LOVE to see the QB folks are arguing about come back here and help him.

Of course I also wanted us to keep him last year to help out the kid, but folks said it was "a waste of Mike Brown's money" 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-07-2021, 11:49 PM)michaelsean Wrote: Just compare Joe to the more recent 1OA QBs. We have Winston, Goff, Baker, Murray, Joe then Trevor.

Super early for Trevor, but Burrow and Murray definitely look like the cream of the crop so far. Murray wasn’t great their last game either (0 TD 2 INT’s), but I doubt Arizona fans are longing for his predecessor…

[jj22]

(11-07-2021, 11:56 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Your “Dalton is better than Burrow” hot take is going to age as well as your Chase thread did…

Both guys are not playing well right now. And guys like you will jump all over it. They’ll be balling out again soon enough though.

Dalton was already headed to his second post season and winning season by this time. My "hot take" isn't as hot as you may hope. Burrow actually has a pretty long way to go to reach Dalton's heights, and he's already 2 years behind schedule. Dalton's legacy is not in jeopardy of being challenged. And may not be.

[Murdock2420]

(11-07-2021, 11:57 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Tbh, I think when Dalton hit 0-2 in the playoffs is when the debate really went nuclear, and that was year 2. There was definitely some naysayers way before that though.

I think I tuned the noise out because I still had hope lol. Wasn't there a poster who was down on Andy every week because they wanted Kaepernick?

I Really thought A.J. and Andy were going to get the team over the hump, especially with the talent around them and it just never happened. This franchise has a way of sucking the hope right out of you.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-07-2021, 11:52 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Give it a rest, champ

You have school in the morning

[Fan_in_Kettering]

The defense is my primary concern, not Joe Burrow. For seven weeks Lou Anarumo had his men allowing only 17 points per game and for two straight games the Bengals have allowed 34 points. That’s Teryl Austin territory.

Is Burrow’s recent penchant for throwing interceptions a concern? Yes. But the lack of defense is throwing the offensive game plan off by a light year. Against the Steelers and Ravens the Bengals ran way more than they threw and won big. That’s the benefit of playing with a lead. Today Burrow threw over 40 passes against only 23 run plays because he had to — but both Cincinnati touchdowns were scored on the ground.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-08-2021, 12:02 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: I think I tuned the noise out because I still had hope lol. Wasn't there a poster who was down on Andy every week because they wanted Kaepernick?

I Really thought A.J. and Andy were going to get the team over the hump, especially with the talent around them and it just never happened. This franchise has a way of sucking the hope right out of you.

No doubt about that. I thought after 2015 I'd never let my expectations get too high, but after that Ravens win I thought we had a good chance to sweep the table. Now look. We're arguing about Andy Dalton and whether or not Nico brought him up first. Le sigh...

[Murdock2420]

(11-08-2021, 12:01 AM)bfine32 Wrote: So do you think he's going to be a good NFL QB or is it too early?

Personally I think he's going to be great, but he needs some help and it's not the oline. I'd LOVE to see the QB folks are arguing about come back here and help him.

Of course I also wanted us to keep him last year to help out the kid, but folks said it was "a waste of Mike Brown's money" 

I think he has the tools to be a good to great NFL quarterback, but most guys drafted in the first two rounds you can say the same thing about.

Honestly, my belief and what I've learned from years of talking to really smart football people (nope, no one on here) is that all these guys coming in have the talent to be great NFL players. What it takes at the next level is a combination of determination, work ethic and luck. Determination to keep pushing through and being able to overcome the bad moments. Work ethic to study and constantly improve your game (Brady is a great example of this, the guy is not top 10 in athletic QB or arm strength but his mind and drive to be great is unmatched). Then there is luck. Luck includes staying healthy and getting to a team that has a system and coaches that bring out the best in you and really allow you to reach your potential. 

I think Joe has the determination and I think he has the work ethic, just have to see if the rest of the puzzle gets completed.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-08-2021, 12:06 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The defense is my primary concern, not Joe Burrow. For seven weeks Lou Anarumo had his men allowing only 17 points per game and for two straight games the Bengals have allowed 34 points. That’s Teryl Austin territory.

Is Burrow’s recent penchant for throwing interceptions a concern? Yes. But the lack of defense is throwing the offensive game plan off by a light year. Against the Steelers and Ravens the Bengals ran way more than they threw and won big. That’s the benefit of playing with a lead. Today Burrow threw over 40 passes against only 23 run plays because he had to — but both Cincinnati touchdowns were scored on the ground.

In fairness, Burrow directly scored 10 points for the Browns with those 2 picks.

The defense was bad though, no doubt.