Help me understand how ….

[leonardfan40]

(11-06-2021, 12:16 PM)Whacked Wrote: How is recognizing talent and expecting to see more productivity labeled as “miserable”? WTH. Lol

Also - this is not about Joe’s completion %.

The inquiry is based on something entirely different; specifically, trying to learn why the potentially high-powered O, is not putting up 35+ per game.

We are stacked at QB, RB, 3 WR’s and T.E.

Joe is having a very good season. Chase is already breaking records and on pace for a ridiculous season for ANY wr but especially for a rookie. Uzomah is far from an all star, he’s a solid piece, but let’s not overrate him. Higgins is young, he’s had some bad moments this year and I think most of us expected him to take a step forward in year two but he hasn’t so far. It does seem like he might be getting it straightened out the last few weeks though. Joe has one or two head scratching plays each week which needs to get fixed, but overall complaining about the passing game seems a little ridiculous. This isn’t madden, it’s the NFL. You won’t complete 100% of your passes for 20 yards each.

Fred is right, if you want to complain about offense complain about the running game. How many times has our oline and RB’s or QB sneak been unable to get one yard when needed. Even when the defense knows it’s coming you should still be able to get one yard at worst half the time. Didn’t work last week.

Then you have our defense which has played great all year then sat back and watched Mike White shred them.

[leonardfan40]

(11-06-2021, 12:42 PM)Whacked Wrote: So you feel Boyd and Higgins have been as productive as they have the potential to be?

Especially w Chase killing it and as a direct result getting lots attn; thus freeing them up?

Boyd and Higgins could arguably be #1 Receivers on at least a handful of teams. They have the potential to produce much more than they are.

Maybe I’m giving these guys too much credit OR maybe I’m just being greedy expectations-wise; but I think this O is often times, still only operating in 3rd gear.

May be overrating them a little but they are definitely capable of better numbers. That said you can have the 3 best WR’s in the league on one offense, they won’t put up the 3 best receiving seasons in the league if they’re on the same offense. Chase is our number 1, he’s going to put up #1 WR numbers. You can’t expect all 3 to put up insane numbers in the same offense. There is a limited number of touches no matter how good an offense is.

[Frank Booth]

Now nfl fans are turning into stat nerds like baseball? Those are the kind of dorks that say batting average doesn’t matter, but then the team who hits for higher averages win the World Series.

Of course the run game opens up the passing game. Take the advanced analytic stuff with a grain of salt. If you take it as gospel, you’re just gonna look like a fool

[KillerGoose]

(11-06-2021, 12:52 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Now nfl fans are turning into stat nerds like baseball? Those are the kind of dorks that say batting average doesn’t matter, but then the team who hits for higher averages win the World Series.

Of course the run game opens up the passing game. Take the advanced analytic stuff with a grain of salt. If you take it as gospel, you’re just gonna look like a fool

This is a pretty easily measured thing. There isn’t any correlation, I’m not sure what else to say. You take a teams running metrics (you can use YPC, success rate, WPA, adds, whatever you want to use) and try to find if there is a correlation to passing game metrics. There isn’t.

There is a lot of ‘conventional logic’ that isn’t true.

EDIT - Also, out of curiosity, I went and looked. The team with the highest batting average has won two World Series in the last 10 years.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

Time of possession and plays per drive. We improve these 2 things with maintaining efficiency. We could be SB Champs this season. If this trend of feast or famine continues then we may miss playoffs

[grampahol]

(11-06-2021, 12:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Last year everyone was squealing about how stupid Zac was for making Burrow throw too much and how we had to run the ball more to protect him.  Now this year everyone is squealing about how Zac is stupid for not having Burrow throw all the time.

I have learned fans every where are always like this.  No matter what the team does if they play does not work then it was a bad call.  Some times in the same thread some fans will be saying we run too much and other fans say we pass too much.

Unless every play is a 100% success soem fan is going to complain about the call and insist his play call would have worked better.

A lot of fans would complain if you hung them with a new rope. After all, a used rope is softer on the skin I guess..

[Murdock2420]

(11-06-2021, 12:16 PM)Whacked Wrote: How is recognizing talent and expecting to see more productivity labeled as “miserable”? WTH. Lol

Also - this is not about Joe’s completion %.

The inquiry is based on something entirely different; specifically, trying to learn why the potentially high-powered O, is not putting up 35+ per game.

We are stacked at QB, RB, 3 WR’s and T.E.

Have you looked at the depth on a team like Tampa Bay?

That group is better across the board, yet they only scored 19 against New England and lost to the Rams and just lost to the Trevor Siemian led Saints. 

It is the NFL, some weeks you have a bad week. Some weeks the defense has a good scheme and it slows you down. Some weeks you play a defense that has the depth to stop you. And some weeks, the bad breaks all seem to go against your team. 

The team is winning and is undefeated in divisional play. And people are still unhappy.... 

[Murdock2420]

(11-06-2021, 01:24 PM)grampahol Wrote: A lot of fans would complain if you hung them with a new rope. After all, a used rope is softer on the skin I guess..

I'm waiting for the complaints to be "The team is winning, so now they won't fire Zac Taylor"

It's coming... and you know it.

[Frank Booth]

(11-06-2021, 12:58 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: This is a pretty easily measured thing. There isn’t any correlation, I’m not sure what else to say. You take a teams running metrics (you can use YPC, success rate, WPA, adds, whatever you want to use) and try to find if there is a correlation to passing game metrics. There isn’t.

There is a lot of ‘conventional logic’ that isn’t true.

EDIT - Also, out of curiosity, I went and looked. The team with the highest batting average has won two World Series in the last 10 years.

Did I say the team with the highest batting average in the league has won the World Series? No. I said the team with the higher average usually wins the World Series.

[Frank Booth]

(11-06-2021, 02:27 PM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Have you looked at the depth on a team like Tampa Bay?

That group is better across the board, yet they only scored 19 against New England and lost to the Rams and just lost to the Trevor Siemian led Saints. 

It is the NFL, some weeks you have a bad week. Some weeks the defense has a good scheme and it slows you down. Some weeks you play a defense that has the depth to stop you. And some weeks, the bad breaks all seem to go against your team. 

The team is winning and is undefeated in divisional play. And people are still unhappy.... 

New England is a good defense headed by Belichik

[Murdock2420]

(11-06-2021, 02:35 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: New England is a good defense headed by Belichik

I understand that and even said as much in my reply, the some weeks you play a good defense part.

And it goes along with what I said, the only position from Tampa that you could say the Bengals have the slight edge would be RB, as I'd take Mixon over Fournette but you certainly would take their three WRs over the Bengals and Brady is... well Brady. Yet, they still have two losses and played a close game with New England.

With that in mind, there is no reason to be all up in arms and complaining that the Bengals aren't doing well when they actually are.

[Whacked]

(11-06-2021, 12:49 PM)leonardfan40 Wrote: May be overrating them a little but they are definitely capable of better numbers. That said you can have the 3 best WR’s in the league on one offense, they won’t put up the 3 best receiving seasons in the league if they’re on the same offense. Chase is our number 1, he’s going to put up #1 WR numbers. You can’t expect all 3 to put up insane numbers in the same offense. There is a limited number of touches no matter how good an offense is.

I hear ya. Good / fair points.

[Au165]

I thought the “Telegraph play” take was bad…then I opened this thread.

[KillerGoose]

(11-06-2021, 02:35 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Did I say the team with the highest batting average in the league has won the World Series? No. I said the team with the higher average usually wins the World Series.

I see what you’re saying now, within the series itself. It makes sense to me, but I’m not a Sabermetrics guy. I only keep track of football, and what I can say is that rushing success has very little correlation to passing success. Running doesn’t open the passing game up in any measurable way, and this would be an easy thing to see.

[BengalsRocker]

(11-06-2021, 11:38 AM)Whacked Wrote: 3 very talented receivers and a T.E. …..

Are all adequately covered 70% of the time?

No team is that deep talent-wise on D to blanket all 4.

Especially when they have to respect Mixon being a running and catching threat too!

Drives me nuts. /End rant

All I'm gonna say to answer this...  is if the offensive line was even just a little bit better, then Burrow and the WRs/TE would be torching the opposition.

If you re-watch some of the past games those routes aren't fully developed because of a lack of time.

The O-line is not terrible but not optimal either.

[Tony]

(11-06-2021, 12:25 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Jets game was over 6 days ago.

Cleveland tomorrow.

Time to let it go and move on.

Its hard to do Rfaulk... Hopefully a good ole Cleveland ass kicking will fix everything..

[Big_Ern]

(11-06-2021, 12:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Last year everyone was squealing about how stupid Zac was for making Burrow throw too much and how we had to run the ball more to protect him.  Now this year everyone is squealing about how Zac is stupid for not having Burrow throw all the time.

I have learned fans every where are always like this.  No matter what the team does if they play does not work then it was a bad call.  Some times in the same thread some fans will be saying we run too much and other fans say we pass too much.

Unless every play is a 100% success soem fan is going to complain about the call and insist his play call would have worked better.

I don't see everyone squealing about about not throwing all the time this year. Too absolute of a statement just to fit your narrative

[ezekiel23]

Against the Browns,abandon the run,and throw on first down.And could we please have some no huddle offense on the menu? I think Uzomah could make the pro bowl this year if they would just give him more targets.He’s earned it.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-06-2021, 12:19 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: There have been four offenses in NFL history that have put up 35+ points per game. That's an insanely high benchmark, you're probably overrating the actual talent on this offense at the moment. 

....and the young age/experience of a few out there. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-06-2021, 06:02 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: All I'm gonna say to answer this...  is if the offensive line was even just a little bit better, then Burrow and the WRs/TE would be torching the opposition.

If you re-watch some of the past games those routes aren't fully developed because of a lack of time.

The O-line is not terrible but not optimal either.

Exactly. It's been piss poor the last few years, and the offense just doesn't work when you can't win the point of attack. It sank one staff, and had a terrible start for the next.