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(01-03-2022, 08:35 PM)Wyche Wrote: "Y'all"?
Anyway, that LSU line wasn't that good either. We all know it needs improvement, but you haven't been around it seems. Peep those oline rankings over the last three seasons, then compare them to this season. Poor Andy Dalton, and Joe last year would've KILLED to have the line play the Bengals have this season. Dalton was sacked eight times one game against Pitt in 2019.
Our OL isnt horrible, but they're not good either. I think if it wasn't for Burrow's pocket presence, it could be a lot worse. I think that was Andy's problem too. I just don't think he had it. Plus, if you compare the two, Burrow extends plays and Andy chucked it out of bounds too quickly. Andy wasn't bad but he had a ceiling that was a little low.
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(01-03-2022, 08:45 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Our OL isnt horrible, but they're not good either. I think if it wasn't for Burrow's pocket presence, it could be a lot worse. I think that was Andy's problem too. I just don't think he had it. Plus, if you compare the two, Burrow extends plays and Andy chucked it out of bounds too quickly. Andy wasn't bad but he had a ceiling that was a little low.
Yessir, I'd say you're spot on there. By the time 2019 rolled around, 14 was completely shell shocked behind this line, and I really don't blame him. Remember, we STARTED Ced Ole' at T. That was borderline criminal negligence.
There were MANY times last year Burrow didn't have time to even get to his first read. That at least has improved. I really think you said it best with your first sentence Dog.
"Better send those refunds..."
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(01-03-2022, 08:45 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Our OL isnt horrible, but they're not good either. I think if it wasn't for Burrow's pocket presence, it could be a lot worse. I think that was Andy's problem too. I just don't think he had it. Plus, if you compare the two, Burrow extends plays and Andy chucked it out of bounds too quickly. Andy wasn't bad but he had a ceiling that was a little low.
(01-03-2022, 09:02 PM)Wyche Wrote: Yessir, I'd say you're spot on there. By the time 2019 rolled around, 14 was completely shell shocked behind this line, and I really don't blame him. Remember, we STARTED Ced Ole' at T. That was borderline criminal negligence.
There were MANY times last year Burrow didn't have time to even get to his first read. That at least has improved. I really think you said it best with your first sentence Dog.
Can you guys remember when we were all just hoping, begging for just an "average" OL? We now have an average OL, and look what a franchise QB has been able to accomplish behind them. People can say that "coaching doesn't matter much" or whatever, but the truth is that most of the faces on the OL are the same, the difference is that Coach Pollack has been able to get a little development and production out of them.
I'm going to be the first to go out on a limb here and say that the OL will be as better next year compared to this year, as they are this year compared to last, with Frank Pollack leading the group.
Volson is meh, but I like him, and he has far exceeded my expectations
-Frank Booth 1/9/23
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(01-03-2022, 09:09 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Can you guys remember when we were all just hoping, begging for just an "average" OL? We now have an average OL, and look what a franchise QB has been able to accomplish behind them. People can say that "coaching doesn't matter much" or whatever, but the truth is that most of the faces on the OL are the same, the difference is that Coach Pollack has been able to get a little development and production out of them.
I'm going to be the first to go out on a limb here and say that the OL will be as better next year compared to this year, as they are this year compared to last, with Frank Pollack leading the group.
Hell yes I remember BEGGING for an average oline....lol.
You're not wrong about anything you said, IMO, I'd still like to see a little upgrade to personnel to go along with the better coaching.
"Better send those refunds..."
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(11-08-2021, 01:27 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Short yardage runs on big downs? Nah.
No, this OL isn't good enough for a playoff run. It will get exposed by a top notch defensive scheme and talent.
Agree. Though Burrow is so good he could win us a game or two. If we get favorable matchups we might have a shot (avoid the best DLs).
Mahomes running for his life in last year's Super Bowl made all his weapons moot. Brady had all day. Bucs win.
We are OK at tackle if Reiff is playing. He is not. Prince is below average. Prince + Adeniji/Carman is a poor right side. If Spain cannot go the left side becomes a provlem, too. Hopkins is improving as the season goes on and his knee improves. But even healthy, he's an average C.
Burrow is the most sacked in the league. And we throw a lot less than some teams.
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(01-03-2022, 08:35 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: "Y'all"?
Anyway, that LSU line wasn't that good either. We all know it needs improvement, but you haven't been around it seems. Peep those oline rankings over the last three seasons, then compare them to this season. Poor Andy Dalton, and Joe last year would've KILLED to have the line play the Bengals have this season. Dalton was sacked eight times one game against Pitt in 2019.
Yep. There’s been some improvement. There’s just no denying that. Especially by merely throwing out sack totals (51 is obviously still WAY, WAY too high though). Tobin has work to do to bring in some top FA’s now. Not guys like XSF. We have the cap space to do it. You have a QB on his rookie contract who’s currently 3rd in MVP odds. You have to go all in. Give Pollack the right pieces and he’ll coach them up.
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(01-03-2022, 09:28 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Yep. There’s been someimprovement. There’s just no denying that. Especially by merely throwing out sack totals (51 is obviously still WAY, WAY too high though). Tobin has work to do to bring in some top FA’s now. Not guys like XSF. We have the cap space to do it. You have a QB on his rookie contract who’s currently 3rd in MVP odds. You have to go all in. Give Pollack the right pieces and he’ll coach them up.
XSF isn't necessarily a bad player, he just can't stay on the field enough to be relied on. Regardless, it seemed he was brought in to be a stop gap player, much like Reif. Time to make a decision on if we are going to put our eggs in Jonah's basket and stay with him and Spain as long as possible while being aggressive to fix the right side, or go hard after securing a pair of elite tackles and hoping we can shore up the interior with the guys we have and any leftover we might have after extending key guys up for contract. While Jonah hasn't really impressed me, I'm all for sticking with him and Spain so we have more resources to throw at the remainder of the line.
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I think Harley noted the big fact - Burrow on the VAST majority of dropbacks has time to scan and time to throw (last I researched it the time between snap and contact on the sacks averages a touch over 3 seconds). This was not the case with Turner. The line itself blocking is better but not where it needs to be. The blocking by backs and TEs IS a real issue and needs to be corrected. But some of the sacks we just have to grin and accept because they come from the way Burrow plays - he is unafraid of contact and holds the ball to let big plays develop.
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(01-03-2022, 09:43 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: XSF isn't necessarily a bad player, he just can't stay on the field enough to be relied on. Regardless, it seemed he was brought in to be a stop gap player, much like Reif. Time to make a decision on if we are going to put our eggs in Jonah's basket and stay with him and Spain as long as possible while being aggressive to fix the right side, or go hard after securing a pair of elite tackles and hoping we can shore up the interior with the guys we have and any leftover we might have after extending key guys up for contract. While Jonah hasn't really impressed me, I'm all for sticking with him and Spain so we have more resources to throw at the remainder of the line.
Jonah has been good enough to buy him some more time to develop. He might not be a top LT (yet), but he’s also not a liability. Reiff was a fine signing. XSF is ok for depth, but they signed him with the intention of starting him. We’ve got to get away from those types of moves. Go get Scherff and make a huge splash.
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(11-23-2021, 12:36 AM)Forever Spinning Vinyl Wrote: Hopkins is this era's Vinnie Rey. A guy that, on almost every other team, would have been cut in their first camp, BUT, since they went to Cincinnati in a neglected position group, they stick around. They improve JUST enough to fend off new competition mainly due to knowing the play book and almost all of the incoming competition are 5th round picks or later. They actually have an NFL career that will get them a pension and NFL retiree benefits. Only in Cincinnati.
Sorry man, a bad take.
Vinnie Rey was a GREAT and core STs player his entire career, who had a small percentage of snaps on D; he wasn't a starter at a very important position for many years, like Hopkins is.
He played 46% of defensive snaps, from 2012 on (and if snap counts were done for 2010-2011, it would be even lower) and started 50 of 128 games.
Not an apt comparison at all.
(01-03-2022, 07:45 PM)LSUfaninTN Wrote: OL for you guys is horrible. I honestly wouldn’t mind losing in the first game because yall cannot protect Burrow, as I don’t see yall making it to the super bowl anyway. Need several changes and JB is the franchise. Don’t ruin him.
Yall are now seeing how good Joe is at evading the rush. Not sure if they weren’t letting him run before, but he’s doing a good job of it now. But yall are going to get him killed if this OL play continues.
Why are you posting in JN if you aren't a Bengal fan?
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Take this how you want, but he’s been spot on with things in the past (including being the first to confirm Chase was the pick).
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Offensive line will be a priority but not targeting the top tier guys.
So... not exactly a major priority...
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I’ve been extremely disappointed with Carman for the most part, but man - - the flashes are there.
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Btw Jonah was excellent against KC.
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(01-03-2022, 08:35 PM)Wyche Wrote: "Y'all"?
Anyway, that LSU line wasn't that good either. We all know it needs improvement, but you haven't been around it seems. Peep those oline rankings over the last three seasons, then compare them to this season. Poor Andy Dalton, and Joe last year would've KILLED to have the line play the Bengals have this season. Dalton was sacked eight times one game against Pitt in 2019.
Wasn't that good? Forget the random LSU fan, but it doesn't mean we have to ignore this.... It produced 3 guys on NFL rosters (2 starters), 1 guy still on practice squads, 1 guy with a cup of coffee in the NFL, and 1 pending this coming draft. All playing on one OL in college. That's an absurd amount of talent to have on one college roster.
(01-03-2022, 09:09 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Can you guys remember when we were all just hoping, begging for just an "average" OL? We now have an average OL, and look what a franchise QB has been able to accomplish behind them. People can say that "coaching doesn't matter much" or whatever, but the truth is that most of the faces on the OL are the same, the difference is that Coach Pollack has been able to get a little development and production out of them.
I'm going to be the first to go out on a limb here and say that the OL will be as better next year compared to this year, as they are this year compared to last, with Frank Pollack leading the group.
We do? By what measure?
Our QB is leading the league in sacks.
The rushing offense is 26th in YPC.
Hopkins is the 34th rated C.
Prince is the 60th rated T.
Carman is the 63rd rated G.
Adeniji is the 83rd rated G.
Reiff was the 50th rated T.
Spain has had a good year, and Jonah is pretty alright. Two guys doesn't make an average OL.
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Sometimes we forget there’s a run game too and the Bengals need serious improvement in run blocking. Yes, it’s better than last year and the year before that and ... and ...
...but we still lack the punch we need up front to dominate the line of scrimmage, open creases, and enable huge amounts of yardage on the ground.
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(01-03-2022, 11:18 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Btw Jonah was excellent against KC.
Jonah is a very solid LT. He’s good and I don’t think he will break the bank, so a good player to have on a team loaded with skill position talent. I think they will be able to keep him long term.
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I think a deep, competent OL at all positions > 2 studs + mediocrity
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(01-03-2022, 11:47 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Our QB is leading the league in sacks.
The rushing offense is 26th in YPC.
Hopkins is the 34th rated C.
Prince is the 60th rated T.
Carman is the 63rd rated G.
Adeniji is the 83rd rated G.
Reiff was the 50th rated T.
Spain has had a good year, and Jonah is pretty alright. Two guys doesn't make an average OL.
We see improvement in offensive line play in Cincinnati and we forget they had nowhere to go but up. Those ratings are unacceptable especially given the quality we have at quarterback, running back, tight end, and wide receiver. I don’t think people understand how unstoppable the Bengals would be on offense with a top tier offensive line.
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