Big Ben's Retiring........

[StrictlyBiz]

(12-07-2021, 01:34 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Gay porn stars making that much in PA these days? 

Good for you, good for you.



oh...

And Ben is a lying, raping POS, not just as a stiller... but he was a lying, raping self centered POS at Miami of Ohio too. Had to keep it smack

Sometimes you have to travel

[Murdock2420]

(12-07-2021, 03:37 PM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: Sometimes you have to travel

Touche'

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

Ben's arm has been retired for 3 years with 6.4 YPA since the start of 2019.

Can't wait until the HoF continues to display it's lowered requirements for Steelers players and we get to see the joke of Ben getting in with 0 All-Pros, 0 OPoY, 0 MVPs, never leading in Comp%, TDs, or QB Rating a single year, and having not been a top-5 QB of even his own generation.

[BFritz21]

(12-13-2021, 02:02 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Ben's arm has been retired for 3 years with 6.4 YPA since the start of 2019.

Can't wait until the HoF continues to display it's lowered requirements for Steelers players and we get to see the joke of Ben getting in with 0 All-Pros, 0 OPoY, 0 MVPs, never leading in Comp%, TDs, or QB Rating a single year, and having not been a top-5 QB of even his own generation.

GREAT POINTS!

I'm going to Tweet and send messages after he retires to every NFL show that claims he should be and you damn well know I won't hear any responses.

[JS-Steelerfan]

(12-13-2021, 02:02 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Ben's arm has been retired for 3 years with 6.4 YPA since the start of 2019.

Can't wait until the HoF continues to display it's lowered requirements for Steelers players and we get to see the joke of Ben getting in with 0 All-Pros, 0 OPoY, 0 MVPs, never leading in Comp%, TDs, or QB Rating a single year, and having not been a top-5 QB of even his own generation.

(12-13-2021, 02:41 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: GREAT POINTS!

I'm going to Tweet and send messages after he retires to every NFL show that claims he should be and you damn well know I won't hear any responses.

I'll begin by saying I don't think he's necessarily a first ballot lock.  He's certainly on the bubble behind several of his contemporaries (Brees, Manning, Brady, and Rodgers especially).  

But ... 

You're cherry picking stats here.  Hall of Famers are chosen based on careers, not on single season highlights, though I will point out that you conveniently forgot that he led the NFL in passing yards twice.  Still, if HoF consideration was based on solely on the existence of standout seasons, there'd be a serious conversation going on about Cam Newton.  And which of you would argue that he's a serious candidate based on his TOTAL body of work?  

However, if you look at Ben's overall career, you'll find that: 

He has a better career completion percentage than several hall of famers, including, but not limited to: Brett Favre, Dan Marino, John Elway, Troy Aikman, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, and Steve Young.  In fact, only two current Hall of Famers had a higher career completion %.    

He has a better career passer rating than several hall of famers, including, but not limited to: Kurt warner, Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Troy Aikman, Warren Moon, John Elway, and Brett Favre.  Again, there are only two current Hall of Famers who had a better career rating.  

He has more career passing TDs than Hall of Famers John Elway and Warren Moon, and is very close to catching Dan Marino.  There are other Hall of famers on the list he has more than as well, but they had shorter careers.  These three had careers of comparable length.  Only two current HoFers had more career TDs.  

He has a higher yards/game average than several Hall of Famers, including but not limited to:  Dan Marino, Brett Favre, Warren Moon, Jim Kelly, John Elway, Troy Aikman and Steve Young.  There are - you guessed it - only two current HoFers who are higher in this category as well.

There are also only two career HoFers with more total passing yards.  

And yes, I know that some of these guys were from different eras, and that the game has become more passer friendly over the years.  I didn't include players whose careers began any earlier than the early to mid-80s for that exact reason.  But even so, Ben is among the top twenty all time career leaders in each of these categories.  

I'm not a big fan of the guy personally, but the assertion that he would get in solely based on some sort of "Steeler discount" is absurd.  His career definitely deserves to be in the conversation on its own.  

So Brad, when you tweet and message those shows, and are wondering why you get no responses, I'd suggest that you reflect on these things.  

[HarleyDog]

(12-05-2021, 09:55 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: I fear we will all be missing Ben when it's Aaron Rodgers taking snaps in Pittsburgh for the next couple years.

Holy shit, let's hope not.

(12-06-2021, 06:30 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: I think we should all just keep it wheel with Brad. It's how i'm gonna roll from now on.

(12-07-2021, 03:36 PM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: What was Chris Henry doing drinking with underage girls in a hotel room? Im sure it was purely innocent. Yeah, they were probably just playing euchre, that's all. Nothing suspicious about that. I'm sure that if the 15 year old had thrown herself at him, he would've resisted because he was a moral man. And he would never take advantage of a 15 year old because he was such a high character individual.

15? Wait.... Something is adding up.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-13-2021, 05:37 PM)JS-Steelerfan Wrote: I'll begin by saying I don't think he's necessarily a first ballot lock.  He's certainly on the bubble behind several of his contemporaries (Brees, Manning, Brady, and Rodgers especially).  

But ... 

You're cherry picking stats here.  Hall of Famers are chosen based on careers, not on single season highlights, though I will point out that you conveniently forgot that he led the NFL in passing yards twice.  Still, if HoF consideration was based on solely on the existence of standout seasons, there'd be a serious conversation going on about Cam Newton.  And which of you would argue that he's a serious candidate based on his TOTAL body of work?  

However, if you look at Ben's overall career, you'll find that: 

He has a better career completion percentage than several hall of famers, including, but not limited to: Brett Favre, Dan Marino, John Elway, Troy Aikman, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, and Steve Young.  In fact, only two current Hall of Famers had a higher career completion %.    

He has a better career passer rating than several hall of famers, including, but not limited to: Kurt warner, Joe Montana, Dan Marino, Jim Kelly, Troy Aikman, Warren Moon, John Elway, and Brett Favre.  Again, there are only two current Hall of Famers who had a better career rating.  

He has more career passing TDs than Hall of Famers John Elway and Warren Moon, and is very close to catching Dan Marino.  There are other Hall of famers on the list he has more than as well, but they had shorter careers.  These three had careers of comparable length.  Only two current HoFers had more career TDs.  

He has a higher yards/game average than several Hall of Famers, including but not limited to:  Dan Marino, Brett Favre, Warren Moon, Jim Kelly, John Elway, Troy Aikman and Steve Young.  There are - you guessed it - only two current HoFers who are higher in this category as well.  

There are also only two career HoFers with more total passing yards.  

And yes, I know that some of these guys were from different eras, and that the game has become more passer friendly over the years.  I didn't include players whose careers began any earlier than the early to mid-80s for that exact reason.  But even so, Ben is among the top twenty all time career leaders in each of these categories.  

I'm not a big fan of the guy personally, but the assertion that he would get in solely based on some sort of "Steeler discount" is absurd.  His career definitely deserves to be in the conversation on its own.  

So Brad, when you tweet and message those shows, and are wondering why you get no responses, I'd suggest that you reflect on these things.  

That's an awfully large post for a point that is trying to be made poorly. Cool, Ben has better stats than guys who played decades ago. You know who else does? Everyone. Even if you didn't include anyone who started playing before the 80s there's still huge incomparable differences.

When Dan Marino played, the highest average Comp% in a year for the NFL was only 58.2%.
While Ben Roethlisberger played, the highest average Comp% in a year for the NFL was 65.2%.

In '83 when Marino came into the league, the team with the most passing TDs had 33. In '04 when Ben came into the league, the team with the most passing TDs had 51. Last year there were more teams with 40+ passing TDs than there were with 30+ in '83.

In '83 the average QB Rating was 75.9, in '99 for Marino's last year it was 77.1.... By '04 the average QB Rating was 82.8, and by last year it rose to 93.6

You can go straight down the list for all those stats you mentioned. You could compare Kirk Cousins and Matthew Stafford to old Hall of Famers and it would look silly statistically, because the times have changed. 

Andy Dalton has a higher Comp% than Jim Kelly, only 14 less TDs, only 700 less yards, and a higher QB Rating. By the end of his career he'll have more TDs and more yards. Doesn't mean Andy Dalton should ever be sniffing the HoF. It just means passing became way easier.

All of your post doesn't change the fact that Ben wasn't even a Top-5 QB of his own time (Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Rivers) with 0 All-Pros and 0 MVPs and doesn't deserve to be a HoFer, but will get in anyway because of a lowered barrier for entry for Steelers, doubly so if he goes into the media as there's an even further lowered barrier for entry for media members.

[BFritz21]

(12-13-2021, 05:37 PM)JS-Steelerfan Wrote: Blah, blah, blah, I'm about to get owned.........

See below............

(12-15-2021, 12:36 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That's an awfully large post for a point that is trying to be made poorly. Cool, Ben has better stats than guys who played decades ago. You know who else does? Everyone. Even if you didn't include anyone who started playing before the 80s there's still huge incomparable differences.

When Dan Marino played, the highest average Comp% in a year for the NFL was only 58.2%.
While Ben Roethlisberger played, the highest average Comp% in a year for the NFL was 65.2%.

In '83 when Marino came into the league, the team with the most passing TDs had 33. In '04 when Ben came into the league, the team with the most passing TDs had 51. Last year there were more teams with 40+ passing TDs than there were with 30+ in '83.

In '83 the average QB Rating was 75.9, in '99 for Marino's last year it was 77.1.... By '04 the average QB Rating was 82.8, and by last year it rose to 93.6

You can go straight down the list for all those stats you mentioned. You could compare Kirk Cousins and Matthew Stafford to old Hall of Famers and it would look silly statistically, because the times have changed. 

Andy Dalton has a higher Comp% than Jim Kelly, only 14 less TDs, only 700 less yards, and a higher QB Rating. By the end of his career he'll have more TDs and more yards. Doesn't mean Andy Dalton should ever be sniffing the HoF. It just means passing became way easier.

All of your post doesn't change the fact that Ben wasn't even a Top-5 QB of his own time (Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Rivers) with 0 All-Pros and 0 MVPs and doesn't deserve to be a HoFer, but will get in anyway because of a lowered barrier for entry for Steelers, doubly so if he goes into the media as there's an even further lowered barrier for entry for media members.

[Murdock2420]

(12-15-2021, 12:36 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That's an awfully large post for a point that is trying to be made poorly. Cool, Ben has better stats than guys who played decades ago. You know who else does? Everyone. Even if you didn't include anyone who started playing before the 80s there's still huge incomparable differences.

When Dan Marino played, the highest average Comp% in a year for the NFL was only 58.2%.
While Ben Roethlisberger played, the highest average Comp% in a year for the NFL was 65.2%.

In '83 when Marino came into the league, the team with the most passing TDs had 33. In '04 when Ben came into the league, the team with the most passing TDs had 51. Last year there were more teams with 40+ passing TDs than there were with 30+ in '83.

In '83 the average QB Rating was 75.9, in '99 for Marino's last year it was 77.1.... By '04 the average QB Rating was 82.8, and by last year it rose to 93.6

You can go straight down the list for all those stats you mentioned. You could compare Kirk Cousins and Matthew Stafford to old Hall of Famers and it would look silly statistically, because the times have changed. 

Andy Dalton has a higher Comp% than Jim Kelly, only 14 less TDs, only 700 less yards, and a higher QB Rating. By the end of his career he'll have more TDs and more yards. Doesn't mean Andy Dalton should ever be sniffing the HoF. It just means passing became way easier.

All of your post doesn't change the fact that Ben wasn't even a Top-5 QB of his own time (Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Rivers) with 0 All-Pros and 0 MVPs and doesn't deserve to be a HoFer, but will get in anyway because of a lowered barrier for entry for Steelers, doubly so if he goes into the media as there's an even further lowered barrier for entry for media members.

This can't be stressed enough.

I've never understood the "future HoF Big Ben" talk from the media talking heads. If it was about beating up teams from Ohio, sure he's in but when it comes to the HoF, you should have to be one of if not the best guys at your position from your era without question and in that regard Ben falls short.

[XenoMorph]

(12-15-2021, 02:26 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: This can't be stressed enough.

I've never understood the "future HoF Big Ben" talk from the media talking heads. If it was about beating up teams from Ohio, sure he's in but when it comes to the HoF, you should have to be one of if not the best guys at your position from your era without question and in that regard Ben falls short.

A big factor is Championships too... And he has as many as any of them not named brady.

[Sled21]

(12-06-2021, 08:50 AM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: It's smack talk, ya numb nuts.
We're all aware of Brads situation, and I've given him props in the past for what he's done and handled his situation. It's all in fun, ya buzz kill and I honestly don't hate the guy unlike some who post here who actually do and have sent me PMs expressing their true dislike for him. 

This place is lame and it's no wonder why. Try to spice it up and be true to the purpose of the room and you immediately kill it. I'd say the cliche "I'll bet you're fun at parties," but I doubt you ever get invited. 

As for your questions BMI is 24/one marriage/no alimony....and to get ahead of your next post.....I have all of my teeth, not married to my sister, college educated, don't live in a trailer, and income in the top 20%. 

Anything else? 

She turned you down huh?

[Murdock2420]

(12-15-2021, 12:38 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: A big factor is Championships too... And he has as many as any of them not named brady.

But why should a team achievement have any impact on the merit of a player going to the HoF.

There have been QBs that won a Super Bowl that certainly don't belong in the hall. Eli Manning has just as many rings as Ben and was also a 2 time Super Bowl MVP, but no one says future Hall of Famer Eli Manning.

Ben is closer to being Eli Manning then he is to being Brady, Rodgers, Brees or Peyton Manning. So if you are putting Ben in because of two rings, then you absolutely have to put Eli in based on his 2 rings and 2 Super Bowl MVPs.

Total Yards       TDs     Comp Percent

57,023             366        60.3                Eli

63,414             415        64.5                 Ben

80,358             571        67.7                 Brees



Ben just doesn't belong.

[JS-Steelerfan]

(12-15-2021, 12:36 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That's an awfully large post for a point that is trying to be made poorly. Cool, Ben has better stats than guys who played decades ago. You know who else does? Everyone. Even if you didn't include anyone who started playing before the 80s there's still huge incomparable differences.

When Dan Marino played, the highest average Comp% in a year for the NFL was only 58.2%.
While Ben Roethlisberger played, the highest average Comp% in a year for the NFL was 65.2%.

In '83 when Marino came into the league, the team with the most passing TDs had 33. In '04 when Ben came into the league, the team with the most passing TDs had 51. Last year there were more teams with 40+ passing TDs than there were with 30+ in '83.

In '83 the average QB Rating was 75.9, in '99 for Marino's last year it was 77.1.... By '04 the average QB Rating was 82.8, and by last year it rose to 93.6

You can go straight down the list for all those stats you mentioned. You could compare Kirk Cousins and Matthew Stafford to old Hall of Famers and it would look silly statistically, because the times have changed. 

Andy Dalton has a higher Comp% than Jim Kelly, only 14 less TDs, only 700 less yards, and a higher QB Rating. By the end of his career he'll have more TDs and more yards. Doesn't mean Andy Dalton should ever be sniffing the HoF. It just means passing became way easier.

All of your post doesn't change the fact that Ben wasn't even a Top-5 QB of his own time (Brady, Manning, Rodgers, Brees, Rivers) with 0 All-Pros and 0 MVPs and doesn't deserve to be a HoFer, but will get in anyway because of a lowered barrier for entry for Steelers, doubly so if he goes into the media as there's an even further lowered barrier for entry for media members.

You’re cherry picking again.  I already acknowledged the era differences, but you chose to emphasize the oldest (Marino) and the statistically worst (Kelly) of the HoFers I referenced.  I notice you stayed away from Kurt Warner, whose career intersected Ben’s for five years, and whose stats are very similar.  

You also ignored that Ben is in the top fifteen all time in just about every category mentioned here.  

Look, I’ll make it simple this time: Ben isn’t even close to being an all time great like Brady or Manning, but neither are most HoF QBs.  He’d definitely be near the bottom of the group if he got in.  But if guys like Aikman, Kelly, and Warner belong, so does Ben.  

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(12-16-2021, 07:29 AM)JS-Steelerfan Wrote: You’re cherry picking again.  I already acknowledged the era differences, but you chose to emphasize the oldest (Marino) and the statistically worst (Kelly) of the HoFers I referenced.  I notice you stayed away from Kurt Warner, whose career intersected Ben’s for five years, and whose stats are very similar.  

You also ignored that Ben is in the top fifteen all time in just about every category mentioned here.  

Look, I’ll make it simple this time: Ben isn’t even close to being an all time great like Brady or Manning, but neither are most HoF QBs.  He’d definitely be near the bottom of the group if he got in.  But if guys like Aikman, Kelly, and Warner belong, so does Ben.  

You acknowledged it, but then made paragraph after paragraph ignoring it.

As for Kurt Warner, I said... 

Quote:...doubly so if he goes into the media as there's an even further lowered barrier for entry for media members.

...because Kurt only got in due to being on NFL Network. He was the only former player on their crew at the time who wasn't a Hall of Famer. He probably wouldn't have gotten in without that and the whole bagging groceries story. Even then he still had a better resume than Ben. You're looking at counting stats rather than the fact that Kurt Warner had 2 MVPs and 2 All-Pros to Ben's 0 and 0. There was at least a period in time when Kurt was the best QB in the league. Ben never had that.


In fact, now that I am looking at it, Ben has a worse resume than Matt Ryan. Matt Ryan is definitely not a HoFer, but at least he's been an All-Pro before and he has an MVP to his name.


Matt Ryan avg season: 65.5% completion, 4,205 passing yards (7.5 YPA), 26 TD/12 INT, 94.2 QB Rating
Big Ben avg season: 64.5% completion, 3,523 passing yards (7.6 YPA), 23 TD/12 INT, 93.9 QB Rating




- - - - - - -
I don't think Aikman belongs. He got to ride the whole America's Team hype and success. Aikman is just Terry Bradshaw, but with better hair.

[StrictlyBiz]

(12-15-2021, 03:16 PM)Sled21 Wrote: She turned you down huh?

For the best. Her tits are too small anyway. I wouldn't have been happy. 

[StrictlyBiz]

And for anyone arguing that Ben doesn't belong in the HOF, just stop. It's weak smack. Or worse, you actually believe it. The debate was settled a decade ago.

[JS-Steelerfan]

(12-16-2021, 10:40 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: You acknowledged it, but then made paragraph after paragraph ignoring it.

As for Kurt Warner, I said... 
...because Kurt only got in due to being on NFL Network. He was the only former player on their crew at the time who wasn't a Hall of Famer. He probably wouldn't have gotten in without that and the whole bagging groceries story. Even then he still had a better resume than Ben. You're looking at counting stats rather than the fact that Kurt Warner had 2 MVPs and 2 All-Pros to Ben's 0 and 0. There was at least a period in time when Kurt was the best QB in the league. Ben never had that.


In fact, now that I am looking at it, Ben has a worse resume than Matt Ryan. Matt Ryan is definitely not a HoFer, but at least he's been an All-Pro before and he has an MVP to his name.


Matt Ryan avg season: 65.5% completion, 4,205 passing yards (7.5 YPA), 26 TD/12 INT, 94.2 QB Rating
Big Ben avg season: 64.5% completion, 3,523 passing yards (7.6 YPA), 23 TD/12 INT, 93.9 QB Rating




- - - - - - -
I don't think Aikman belongs. He got to ride the whole America's Team hype and success. Aikman is just Terry Bradshaw, but with better hair.

Pro-football-reference.com has developed a Football HoF predictive model that incorporates honors like Pro Bowl and All Pro recognition and also considers statistical thresholds that are adjusted per era to account for differences.  Their assessment disagrees with you on both Roethlisberger and Ryan.  Both are ranked as just below the average HoFer, but hopefully I don't have to explain  how bell curves work.  

Please note that using this scale, a model that - again - adjusts for differences in era, Ben is still rated higher than some of the HoFers I referenced, as well as many of the contemporary players you mentioned (with the lone exception of Ryan, whom I believe you are underestimating). 

This predictive model agrees with my assertion: that Ben is not on the same level of the cream of the crop of the HoF, but he definitely belongs in the lower tier of existing HoFers, and quite securely at that.  

Their results:
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/hof/hofm_QB.htm

Their method:
https://www.sports-reference.com/blog/2019/12/introducing-the-pfr-hof-monitor/

Edit: and by the way, your theory that Warner is in because he's an NFL Network analyst is ludicrous.  Are you unaware that the Pro Football HoF is a separate entity that works collaboratively with, but is neither run nor owned by the NFL?

[Murdock2420]

(12-16-2021, 11:42 AM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: And for anyone arguing that Ben doesn't belong in the HOF, just stop. It's weak smack. Or worse, you actually believe it. The debate was settled a decade ago.

For Bengal fans I think it is just a simple case of seeing a better candidate like Kenny Anderson get passed over time and time again, while some guy who is the 6th, or 7th maybe 8th best QB of his own era being looked at as a lock because of the jersey on his back.

He is Eli Manning in a different jersey.

[yellowxdiscipline]

lol according to Steelers fans on Twitter, Ben has one more Super Bowl run in him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JS-Steelerfan]

(12-20-2021, 10:13 AM)yellowxdiscipline Wrote: lol according to Steelers fans on Twitter, Ben has one more Super Bowl run in him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He does, but only with a much stronger supporting cast than what he currently has.  He ain't carrying the team any more.