Burrow vs. Herbert

[Shake n Blake]

(12-05-2021, 07:42 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Explain...

He statistically played well against the jets, stunk it up against Cleveland

Played game manager with the 2 big wins against Oakland and pittsburgh due to the run game going off

300 yards 2 touchdowns and 2 ints today

I wouldn’t call that stretch “regressing”

The 2-3 record has you thinking Burrow somehow regressed

First 7 weeks:
1956 yards (279.4 per game)
17 TDs (2.43 per game)
8 INTs (2.1 TDs per INT)
108.9 passer rating

Last 5 weeks:
1179 yards (235.8 yards per game)
6 TDs (1.2 per game)
6 INTs (1.0 TDs per INT)
84.9 passer rating

Yards are down. He's throwing half as many TDs while still throwing a bunch of picks. Passer rating and YPA have plummeted to well below average levels.

He basically went from being Aaron Rodgers to a poor man's Andy Dalton.

[Tony]

(12-05-2021, 07:48 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: I still wouldn’t call the last 5 games regression on Burrow’s part

Burrow played bad against Cleveland. That’s the only game I can say he played bad in. He was ok today. I’m not putting that Jamarr int on burrow even though it’ll say that in the stat book

That throw couldn't of been better was the weird part. I'm starting to question Ja'maars mental strength.... It seems like he's a rhythm player and when it's not going good, he checks out mentally..

[Shake n Blake]

(12-05-2021, 07:52 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: This isn’t just a Joe Burrow problem. It’s a Cincinnati Bengals problem writ large. Why do I say this? Andy Dalton and Carson Palmer did the same things. It might be the quarterback coach. It might be the route trees. It might be the horrible pass protection. It might be a combination of all three.

You're right. It's been like this for awhile now.

[Frank Booth]

(12-05-2021, 07:54 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: First 7 weeks:
1956 yards (279.4 per game)
17 TDs (2.43 per game)
8 INTs (2.1 TDs per INT)
108.9 passer rating

Last 5 weeks:
1179 yards (235.8 yards per game)
6 TDs (1.2 per game)
6 INTs (1.0 TDs per INT)
84.9 passer rating

Yards are down. He's throwing half as many TDs while still throwing a bunch of picks. Passer rating and YPA have plummeted to well below average levels.

Hmm... you don’t read well do you? Or do you not have a good memory?

The 2 wins against pitt and Vegas, he wasn’t asked to play great and put up gaudy numbers. When the run game is rolling, and the defense is balling, all you have to do is play like Alex Smith

He played good the jets game, he played well today considering that first interception wasn’t his fault, it’s jamarr and his inconsistent hands’ fault

Cleveland was a bad game by Burrow.

[Tony]

(12-05-2021, 07:54 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: First 7 weeks:
1956 yards (279.4 per game)
17 TDs (2.43 per game)
8 INTs (2.1 TDs per INT)
108.9 passer rating

Last 5 weeks:
1179 yards (235.8 yards per game)
6 TDs (1.2 per game)
6 INTs (1.0 TDs per INT)
84.9 passer rating

Yards are down. He's throwing half as many TDs while still throwing a bunch of picks. Passer rating and YPA have plummeted to well below average levels.

He basically went from being Aaron Rodgers to a poor man's Andy Dalton.

Maybe teams are figuring him out? Something is definitely off since the Jets game though..

[Frank Booth]

(12-05-2021, 07:57 PM)Tony Wrote: Something is definitely off since the Jets game though..

Yea the run game decided it was going to be dominant

[KillerGoose]

(12-05-2021, 07:42 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Explain...

He statistically played well against the jets, stunk it up against Cleveland

Played game manager with the 2 big wins against Oakland and pittsburgh due to the run game going off

300 yards 2 touchdowns and 2 ints today

I wouldn’t call that stretch “regressing”

The 2-3 record has you thinking Burrow somehow regressed

For the first seven weeks, Burrow was putting up...

9 YPA

8.1% TD%

3.7% INT%

108 rating

Over the past five weeks, Burrow has put up...

7 YPA

3.5% TD%

3.5% TD%

86 rating

There is no argument for him not regressing. Even if you take away the wacky interception today, his INT% drops to 2.9% and his rating improves to 88. He hasn't been playing great football. 

[Frank Booth]

(12-05-2021, 08:02 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: For the first seven weeks, Burrow was putting up...

9 YPA

8.1% TD%

3.7% INT%

108 rating

Over the past five weeks, Burrow has put up...

7 YPA

3.5% TD%

3.5% TD%

86 rating

There is no argument for him not regressing. Even if you take away the wacky interception today, his INT% drops to 2.9% and his rating improves to 88. He hasn't been playing great football. 

Lmao Jesus Christ this place can’t read !

Why would he put up amazing numbers when Joe Mixon is running the ball 25+ times and running for 5+ yards a pop?

Use your brain. There’s a word called context.

[Tony]

(12-05-2021, 08:02 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: For the first seven weeks, Burrow was putting up...

9 YPA

8.1% TD%

3.7% INT%

108 rating

Over the past five weeks, Burrow has put up...

7 YPA

3.5% TD%

3.5% TD%

86 rating

There is no argument for him not regressing. Even if you take away the wacky interception today, his INT% drops to 2.9% and his rating improves to 88. He hasn't been playing great football. 

I think all the hits maybe taking a toll.. Physically and mentally.. He got crushed at least 4 times today good..

[Shake n Blake]

(12-05-2021, 07:57 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Hmm... you don’t read well do you? Or do you not have a good memory?

The 2 wins against pitt and Vegas, he wasn’t asked to play great and put up gaudy numbers. When the run game is rolling, and the defense is balling, all you have to do is play like Alex Smith

He played good the jets game, he played well today considering that first interception wasn’t his fault, it’s jamarr and his inconsistent hands’ fault

Cleveland was a bad game by Burrow.

Always a sign someone's losing a debate when they resort to personal attacks.

Here's a recap of this convo:

Me: "Chase has struggled over the last 5 weeks, and so has Burrow"
You: Prove it.
Me: Proves it.
You: You don't read very well, do ya?

[Frank Booth]

(12-05-2021, 08:05 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Always a sign someone's losing a debate when they resort to personal attacks.

Here's a recap of this convo:

Me: "Chase has struggled over the last 5 weeks, and so has Burrow"
You: Prove it.
Me: Proves it.
You: You don't read very well, do ya?

Typical. Ignore the actual argument and key in on my “insults”

Respond to my actual point. You wont

[Shake n Blake]

(12-05-2021, 08:05 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Lmao Jesus Christ this place can’t read !

Why would he put up amazing numbers when Joe Mixon is running the ball 25+ times and running for 5+ yards a pop?

Use your brain. There’s a word called context.

He's thrown more over the last 5 weeks (33.4 attempts/game) than he did in the first 7 (30.3).

[KillerGoose]

(12-05-2021, 08:05 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Lmao Jesus Christ this place can’t read !

Why would he put up amazing numbers when Joe Mixon is running the ball 25+ times and running for 5+ yards a pop?

Use your brain. There’s a word called context.

What? Lol, he could put up better numbers by playing better. Running the ball a lot doesn't affect per pass metrics, which is what all of those are. I'm not telling you that he was just throwing for less yards. I'm telling you that he is throwing less TDs per attempt, roughly the same amount of picks per attempt, less yards per attempt and has a worse passer rating. 

You're essentially saying "Yeah, he's playing worse but it has been because the run game has been doing well." That makes absolutely no sense. Our entire point is that he is playing worse than he was on per pass metrics and this shows up across the board. He regressed. 

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(12-05-2021, 08:02 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: For the first seven weeks, Burrow was putting up...

9 YPA

8.1% TD%

3.7% INT%

108 rating

Over the past five weeks, Burrow has put up...

7 YPA

3.5% TD%

3.5% TD%

86 rating

There is no argument for him not regressing. Even if you take away the wacky interception today, his INT% drops to 2.9% and his rating improves to 88. He hasn't been playing great football. 

This is due to defensive coordinators having film on Joe Burrow along with performing data analysis. Statistical tendencies can be calculated and predicted and the best teams do this. Opposing defensive coordinators now know what happens when Joe throws left, right, on third down, or whatever. They can see when he forces throws and how he responds to blitz packages or pressure from the front four.

The key Brian Callahan and Zac Taylor need to embrace and internalize is the need for stellar pass protection. These guys need to be on Frank Pollack’s case.

[*Nately120*]

(12-05-2021, 08:05 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Lmao Jesus Christ this place can’t read !

Why would he put up amazing numbers when Joe Mixon is running the ball 25+ times and running for 5+ yards a pop?

Use your brain. There’s a word called context.

If Mixon is running like Jim Brown shouldn't an elite QB have like 6 TDs and 0 INTs during that span?  A great run game should open up our stacked WR group for major gains, not turn the QB into Mitch Trubisky.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-05-2021, 08:05 PM)Tony Wrote: I think all the hits maybe taking a toll.. Physically and mentally.. He got crushed at least 4 times today good..

19 sacks in the last 5 weeks, on 167 pass attempts.

A sack per every 8.8 throws, which is not good, for anyone unfamiliar with how those ratios usually look.

[KillerGoose]

(12-05-2021, 08:09 PM)Nately120 Wrote: If Mixon is running like Jim Brown shouldn't an elite QB have like 6 TDs and 0 INTs during that span?  A great run game should open up our stacked WR group for major gains, not turn the QB into Mitch Trubisky.

The success of a running game and passing game are pretty independent. A great running game doesn't improve your passing game, surprisingly. 

[Frank Booth]

(12-05-2021, 08:08 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: What? Lol, he could put up better numbers by playing better. Running the ball a lot doesn't affect per pass metrics, which is what all of those are. I'm not telling you that he was just throwing for less yards. I'm telling you that he is throwing less TDs per attempt, roughly the same amount of picks per attempt, less yards per attempt and has a worse passer rating. 

You're essentially saying "Yeah, he's playing worse but it has been because the run game has been doing well." That makes absolutely no sense. Our entire point is that he is playing worse than he was on per pass metrics and this shows up across the board. He regressed. 

It makes plenty of sense. You’re essentially saying his 20-24 performance against Pitt was bad. You’re saying his performance against Vegas was bad. Why would he throw anything else but short high% passes those games? The defense and running game were both dominant.

With the low td%, why does he have to throw touchdowns when Mixon is scoring them all? Also burrow running for touchdowns himself?

Use. Your. Brain.

[*bfine32*]

What are we arguing about? I lost track and I want to argue too.

[*Nately120*]

(12-05-2021, 08:11 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: The success of a running game and passing game are pretty independent. A great running game doesn't improve your passing game, surprisingly. 

It's all a bit odd because Joe Mixon and Joe Burrow both being on the field at the same time this late into the season is pretty damn new and....I won't say unexpected, but I'll say surprising.