Where is the Improvement with giving up Sacks

[fredtoast]

(12-08-2021, 12:10 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote:  I was just pointing out the obvious is all 

(12-08-2021, 01:33 AM)NotBigzo Wrote: Some of you are too much of a Homer to look at facts. 

And some of you are too big of trolls to look at facts or have a clue what is "obvious".  Burrow is top ten in time to throw.  When he was sacked 10 times in the first two games he had at least 3 seconds to throw the ball every single time.

Our O-line still needs work.  If you can find someone who disagrees with that then give me their name.  But at the same time everyone who isn't a troll agrees that the o-line is better than last year

[Gdale_Bengal]

The line has been good enough this year. I’m positive it will be better next year.

Will Burrow continue to hold onto the football too long all the time and take terrible sacks? That’s my real question going into next year. Still too many bad mistakes on Burrow to hitch tge blame on the offensive line.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

I recall a lot of talk about "if the line would just play about average, we'd be in good shape". Well, it's been doing that, and improving as the season wears on. Now, we need it to be elite?

As has been mentioned, Burrow needs to help his guys out a bit more. This team is rather young, there will be growing pains and lessons learned. The QB is young, he's learning every week. Hopkins is getting his legs back under him, Adeniji has been an improvement at RG, Jonah hasn't reached his potential, and these guys really just started to gel about week 6. 

[*ochocincos*]

Play calling and the QB himself can factor into sacks, not just the OL performance.
If the Bengals called more of a WCO, it could result in Burrow getting the ball out quicker and therefore sacked less.
Burrow also has had a tendency at times to hold onto the ball too long waiting for receivers to get open or waiting for the bigger play when a shorter route is there or run the ball.
As a whole though, I see this OL better than last year. There might be up to 4 spots in the offseason that need addressed though, depending on:
- Will Hopkins return to form?
- Is Adeniji good enough?
- Will Spain and/or Reiff re-sign?

[Sled21]

(12-08-2021, 02:07 AM)NotBigzo Wrote: Jonah isn’t a long term solution. He gets clapped by elite pass rushers and after watching big whit growing up I want more.

You get reception under that bridge?

[Sled21]

(12-08-2021, 10:51 AM)Wyche Wrote: I recall a lot of talk about "if the line would just play about average, we'd be in good shape". Well, it's been doing that, and improving as the season wears on. Now, we need it to be elite?

As has been mentioned, Burrow needs to help his guys out a bit more. This team is rather young, there will be growing pains and lessons learned. The QB is young, he's learning every week. Hopkins is getting his legs back under him, Adeniji has been an improvement at RG, Jonah hasn't reached his potential, and these guys really just started to gel about week 6. 

I was really looking forward to watch the incarnation of Jonah, Big Spain, Hopkins, Adeniji and Reiff play their 3rd straight game together. After what they did to Pittsburgh, I was expecting a huge run game against the Chargers, who are last in the league against the run. Unfortunately, 2 of the 5 were unable to go and replaced by rookies (Yes, I realize Prince isn't a rookie, but he hasn't seen extended playing time)

[Big_Ern]

(12-08-2021, 02:07 AM)NotBigzo Wrote: Jonah isn’t a long term solution. He gets clapped by elite pass rushers and after watching big whit growing up I want more.

Big Whit said it takes 5 years for a left tackle to develop. In his second year whit was getting clapped by freeny 

[grampahol]

(12-08-2021, 01:33 AM)NotBigzo Wrote: In terms of sack total we’re on pace to have more, not less, despite having a more balanced offense this year compared to last.

Some of you are too much of a Homer to look at facts. You’re all a bunch of pseudo Denny’s.

Maybe I'm missing something, but wouldn't they have to go back in time to have less than more? The two missing starters were the reason he was gotten to so often this last game..period. There were other reasons, but missing starters was the overwhelmingly major reason..

[*ochocincos*]

(12-08-2021, 09:45 AM)samhain Wrote: I see zero chance they take a guard unless they just don't extend Spain, which would be absolutely criminal.  Adeniji has played well enough to keep the job and Carman showed some promise and was a high pick.  They've stuck with worse players for longer than either of the guys.  Smith looms as well, and it looked like he was going to be a guard to begin his career.  

Totally agree about getting a center.  If they shell out money for another big FA, I'd love it to be on a center.  No draft crapshoot, just pay a proven commodity.  Allen, Jensen, Jones, IDC.  I like Kelce but he's got some mileage and an injury history.  Incredible intangibles and leadership qualities, though.  James Daniels is another option, as Mikey loves his local kids, but he seems to be excelling at RG moreso than he did at center, so paying a guy big money to play a position he hasn't proven himself at seems risky.  

I'm all for drafting another T.  I like Reiff, but there needs to be a long-term answer and I'm not sure it's here right now.  Ideally, I'd like to see one drafted early to play RT and then be a possible hedge vs Jonah leaving in a worst case scenario next year.  I'm a biased Lexingtonian, But Darian Kinnard is a mountain of a human being with good feet that's been getting it done in the SEC for a long time.  Should be available when we pick....  Also played for OC Liam Cohen at UK, who came from the Rams, who you'd think runs a system somewhat similar to Zac's, but that might be a stretch.

One thing about Jason Kelce to contradict the bolded...
Kelce has played in every game since 2015.
He's only missed a total of 18 games in his 11-year career.
I would not be worried about injuries with him.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-08-2021, 11:13 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I was really looking forward to watch the incarnation of Jonah, Big Spain, Hopkins, Adeniji and Reiff play their 3rd straight game together. After what they did to Pittsburgh, I was expecting a huge run game against the Chargers, who are last in the league against the run. Unfortunately, 2 of the 5 were unable to go and replaced by rookies (Yes, I realize Prince isn't a rookie, but he hasn't seen extended playing time)

I really hope Spain gets re-signed. He's proven himself.
I'm fine with keeping Reiff, but I'd also be happy with someone like Morgan Moses if Reiff leaves.
If not a vet, ya gotta get a new RT in the first or second round of the draft.
This offseason, I'd love to see a vet C signed to solidify the OL, or go get Linderbaum in Rd 1. They might have to trade up for Linderbaum though, depending on where they get slotted.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-08-2021, 11:13 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I was really looking forward to watch the incarnation of Jonah, Big Spain, Hopkins, Adeniji and Reiff play their 3rd straight game together. After what they did to Pittsburgh, I was expecting a huge run game against the Chargers, who are last in the league against the run. Unfortunately, 2 of the 5 were unable to go and replaced by rookies (Yes, I realize Prince isn't a rookie, but he hasn't seen extended playing time)

Same here, I hope they're back this week.

[impactplaya]

The sack increase is tied into partially
Defenses are making Jamar Chase priority one to shut down
Thus JB is bringing the ball down and not going to secondary reads
Fast enough. If you notice defenses are sending more delayed
Blitzes and they are getting home.
When Chase was going off, the sack.numbers werent as drastic.
Its on the shoulders of ZT, BC and JB to makes defenses pay
For using cloud or bracket coverages on Chase.
It's not Pollacks fault the sack totals are up

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(12-08-2021, 10:00 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Our O-line still needs work.  If you can find someone who disagrees with that then give me their name.  But at the same time everyone who isn't a troll agrees that the o-line is better than last year

The offensive line IS better than last year but that’s an extremely low bar. They had nowhere to go but up.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-08-2021, 12:53 PM)impactplaya Wrote: The sack increase is tied into partially
Defenses are making Jamar Chase priority one to shut down
Thus JB is bringing the ball down and not going to secondary reads
Fast enough. If you notice defenses are sending more delayed
Blitzes and they are getting home.
When Chase was going off, the sack.numbers werent as drastic.
Its on the shoulders of ZT, BC and JB to makes defenses pay
For using cloud or bracket coverages on Chase.
It's not Pollacks fault the sack totals are up

There are several times I've seen guys open underneath as JB looks for the home run. He's gotta get better at taking the hot read, and lesser gains. I'm sure he will. 

[kalibengal]

(12-08-2021, 11:21 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: Big Whit said it takes 5 years for a left tackle to develop. In his second year whit was getting clapped by freeny 

dont forget Elvis "Pressly" Dumervill had Whits number too.  Whit had trouble with those shorter quick DEs

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(12-08-2021, 11:21 AM)Big_Ern Wrote: Big Whit said it takes 5 years for a left tackle to develop. In his second year whit was getting clapped by freeny 

1. Don't believe he ever said that.
2. Whitworth was playing LG (3 games at LT, 13 at LG) in 2007 and they didn't play the Colts. You're thinking '06 when Levi got hurt.
3. '06 was Whitworth's first year.

[impactplaya]

(12-08-2021, 02:13 PM)Wyche Wrote: There are several times I've seen guys open underneath as JB looks for the home run. He's gotta get better at taking the hot read, and lesser gains. I'm sure he will. 

Higgins Boyd And Uzomah and any of the RBs 
Are very capable of YAC and getting big time yardage
A simple 6 yd completion to a RB that sits underneath
Is better than a 34 yd pass that falls incomplete. 
Take what the defenses gives you
Manning and Brady have HOF busts based on that

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(12-08-2021, 02:33 PM)kalibengal Wrote: dont forget Elvis "Pressly" Dumervill had Whits number too.  Whit had trouble with those shorter quick DEs

Beyond false.

In 12 games, he had 8 sacks, 3 coming in one game (in '15) and in that '15 game, only 1 was against Whitworth. So the worst that could be is 6 sacks in 12 games (of which 3 he was shut out), but I cannot confirm who each of the sacks was against, outside of that '15 game, as Dumervil lined up all over the line.

Just like, "Leon Hall can't cover speed guys," the notion that Whitworth couldn't handle small guys is bogus.

Only 1 player gave Whitworth trouble over his whole career and that was Dwight Freeney: in 4 career games against Whitworth, he got 6 sacks.

[Joelist]

This would be a good time for Burrow to play the quick passing game - hit the quick slants and such as the primary read and once the defense is forced to back off because of giving up all the short plays then you can look for the deeper balls.

[Big_Ern]

(12-08-2021, 02:40 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: 1. Don't believe he ever said that.
2. Whitworth was playing LG (3 games at LT, 13 at LG) in 2007 and they didn't play the Colts. You're thinking '06 when Levi got hurt.
3. '06 was Whitworth's first year.

He did say it. And here is him against greenery https://www.bengals.com/news/matchup-of-the-game-6061568