Weird things to ponder about the design of the offense...

[Joelist]

1) Why do they constantly fail to adjust to target the weak spot on opposing defenses?

2) Why do we never use scheme to put our players into position to succeed? For example moving Chase around to get better matchups? How about running plays to get our playmakers the ball in space - they don't have to be bombs just short pass plays.

3) Why claim you are a wide zone running team then turn around and run inside zone instead? Especially after back to back effective running games using wide zone?

4) Why are plays designed to burn the pass rush so incredibly rare from the Bengals? It basically means there is no downside to the opposing DL pinning its ears back.

5) Why are they so unbelievably bad at simple screens?

6) Why run empty set against a defense obviously blitzing? It is a recipe for disaster no matter what OL you have.

There are more...

[TheFan]

Poor play calling by Zac Taylor, poor play design/game planning by Zac Taylor and Bill Callahan, and poor Oline play by our Oline. Sprinkle in Chase killing drives with drops and Burrow throwing I'll advised interceptions and you have an inconsistent underachieving offense.

[Joelist]

(12-13-2021, 12:55 AM)TheFan Wrote: Poor play calling by Zac Taylor, poor play design/game planning by Zac Taylor and Bill Callahan, and poor Oline play by our Oline. Sprinkle in Chase killing drives with drops and Burrow throwing I'll advised interceptions and you have an inconsistent underachieving offense.

I'm talking about the design of the offense - drops and other play factors are unrelated.

[thompson19osu]

Agree with all. Really wonder why we seemingly have no answer to negate a blitz or line with its ears linned back as you say. With the line rushing straight up the field into Burrro’s face you would think there should be some simple check downs in behind the rush.

[Joelist]

(12-13-2021, 12:58 AM)thompson19osu Wrote: Agree with all. Really wonder why we seemingly have no answer to negate a blitz or line with its ears linned back as you say. With the line rushing straight up the field into Burrro’s face you would think there should be some simple check downs in behind the rush.

It IS weird. I don't think I have EVER seen another football team either in college or pros that does literally nothing to burn blitzes and negate pass rushes. 

[fredtoast]

(12-13-2021, 01:02 AM)Joelist Wrote: It IS weird. I don't think I have EVER seen another football team either in college or pros that does literally nothing to burn blitzes and negate pass rushes. 

You don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Bengals have been one of the best passing teams in the league against the blitz.

[fredtoast]

(12-13-2021, 12:58 AM)Joelist Wrote: I'm talking about the design of the offense - drops and other play factors are unrelated.

Despite all the drops and screw ups the "design" of our offense has us #7 in scoring and pass efficiency and above average in yards (14th), yards/play (13th), 3rd down conversion % (15th), Red zone TD % (8th), points per drive (10th).

Don't see how that is possible if every other team has such a better "design" than the Bengals offense.

[ezekiel23]

This Offense is still fun to watch,most of the time,even with the mishaps.I also think this Offense has loads of potential,especially with our current Quarterback.Their are a variety of things holding this Offense back at times.Some of those,you have already listed,of course,which is in your opinion.But,if you were only allowed to choose just one thing that is holding this Offense back the most,what would it be?

[Joelist]

(12-15-2021, 02:32 PM)ezekiel23 Wrote: This Offense is still fun to watch,most of the time,even with the mishaps.I also think this Offense has loads of potential,especially with our current Quarterback.Their are a variety of things holding this Offense back at times.Some of those,you have already listed,of course,which is in your opinion.But,if you were only allowed to choose just one thing that is holding this Offense back the most,what would it be?

Doing almost nothing to burn aggressive pass rushing. Just because Burrow is effective versus blitzes and such does not mean we should let opposing DLs pin their ears back. We need to become a lot more effective at screens, traps and draws. Even just a few such plays will cause defenders to pause. 

[fredtoast]

(12-15-2021, 02:36 PM)Joelist Wrote: Doing almost nothing to burn aggressive pass rushing. Just because Burrow is effective versus blitzes and such does not mean we should let opposing DLs pin their ears back. We need to become a lot more effective at screens, traps and draws. Even just a few such plays will cause defenders to pause. 

Why run screens traps and draws when we are more efficient just throwing the ball against the blitz?

"Blitz" in no way equals "good pass defense".  In fact many of the teams that blitz the most also have some of the worst pass defenses.

Winning football games is about moving the ball and scoring points, not eliminating blitzes.  As long as the defense is having to pay for blitzing it does not matter how t is done.

[fredtoast]

(12-13-2021, 12:50 AM)Joelist Wrote: 1) Why do they constantly fail to adjust to target the weak spot on opposing defenses?

They don't.

The fact that our offense looks better in the second half proves you are 100% wrong about this.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-13-2021, 12:50 AM)Joelist Wrote: 1) Why do they constantly fail to adjust to target the weak spot on opposing defenses?

2) Why do we never use scheme to put our players into position to succeed? For example moving Chase around to get better matchups? How about running plays to get our playmakers the ball in space - they don't have to be bombs just short pass plays.

3) Why claim you are a wide zone running team then turn around and run inside zone instead? Especially after back to back effective running games using wide zone?

4) Why are plays designed to burn the pass rush so incredibly rare from the Bengals? It basically means there is no downside to the opposing DL pinning its ears back.

5) Why are they so unbelievably bad at simple screens?

6) Why run empty set against a defense obviously blitzing? It is a recipe for disaster no matter what OL you have.

There are more...

Remember - Taylor was very limited in play calling experience before coming to the Bengals.
He was only interim OC when Lazor was fired from the Dolphins, and he was not good.
He was not good with his only season as UC OC either.
With that said, he is better this year than any other year he's been an offensive playcaller before, so he seems to be learning over time.

As for the empty set vs blitzing, he could be taking the philosophy that if the opponent is going to blitz, get the ball out quickly and exploit the fewer number of defenders in coverage. That can be a gamble though if the receivers don't get open quick enough. They don't really have any guys fast or shifty enough to get open quickly other than Chase. 

[fredtoast]

(12-13-2021, 12:50 AM)Joelist Wrote: 2) Why do we never use scheme to put our players into position to succeed? For example moving Chase around to get better matchups? How about running plays to get our playmakers the ball in space - they don't have to be bombs just short pass plays.

Chase is having one of the best seasons of any WR in the league.  Who is to say that moving him around would improve his game.  Most elite WR line up on the outside all of the time, or at least as ofetn as Chase does.  Chase also has 7 carries this year.

[Essex Johnson]

I do agree that we need to run less empty, I would hope ZT would tell Burrow just can't run as much as he wants... i do think we actually do well adjusting, it is starting out games where we are not doing well,

I would add why don't we audible more...

[Tony]

(12-13-2021, 12:50 AM)Joelist Wrote: 1) Why do they constantly fail to adjust to target the weak spot on opposing defenses?

2) Why do we never use scheme to put our players into position to succeed? For example moving Chase around to get better matchups? How about running plays to get our playmakers the ball in space - they don't have to be bombs just short pass plays.

3) Why claim you are a wide zone running team then turn around and run inside zone instead? Especially after back to back effective running games using wide zone?

4) Why are plays designed to burn the pass rush so incredibly rare from the Bengals? It basically means there is no downside to the opposing DL pinning its ears back.

5) Why are they so unbelievably bad at simple screens?

6) Why run empty set against a defense obviously blitzing? It is a recipe for disaster no matter what OL you have.

There are more...

1 answer.. Zac

[Tony]

(12-15-2021, 02:41 PM)fredtoast Wrote: They don't.

The fact that our offense looks better in the second half proves you are 100% wrong about this.

Ya, that's why it took till the 4th qtr to attack the niners weak DBs, when they knew this going into the game..

[Tony]

(12-15-2021, 02:40 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why run screens traps and draws when we are more efficient just throwing the ball against the blitz?

"Blitz" in no way equals "good pass defense".  In fact many of the teams that blitz the most also have some of the worst pass defenses.

Winning football games is about moving the ball and scoring points, not eliminating blitzes.  As long as the defense is having to pay for blitzing it does not matter how t is done.

Have you seen all the Sacks and hits Burrow has took? They kill drives..

[Whatever]

(12-15-2021, 02:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Chase is having one of the best seasons of any WR in the league.  Who is to say that moving him around would improve his game.  Most elite WR line up on the outside all of the time, or at least as ofetn as Chase does.  Chase also has 7 carries this year.

Actually out of the top ten in receiving this year, only Diontae Johnson has lined up in the slot less than Chase.  Guys like Kupp, Hill, and Godwin are in the slot more than half the time.  Guys like Samuel, Lockett, Adams, and Jefferson are in the slot around 1/3 of the time.  Chase is in the slot 16% of the time.  

There is more productiion that we can get out of Chase.  Problem is, we're paying Boyd $11 mil a year to be a slot WR and he's not very effective on the outside.  Lack of deep threats would seem to indicate that this would be a rob Peter to pay Paul type move.

[fredtoast]

(12-15-2021, 03:56 PM)Tony Wrote: Ya, that's why it took till the 4th qtr to attack the niners weak DBs, when they knew this going into the game..

You should not comment on games you did not watch.  Burrow was throwing to our WRs all game.

[fredtoast]

(12-15-2021, 04:29 PM)Whatever Wrote: There is more production that we can get out of Chase.  

Using Chase as a short "check down" receiver is a waste of his talent.

Boyd is better in the slot than Chase is and Chase is better outside than Boyd is