Issue 3 (For Ohio Residents)

[RoyleRedlegs]

Smoked some pot in college. Wasn't for me. Haven't smoked since.

Started drinking large amounts of caffeine in college, haven't been able to get fully off.

Pot is by far one of the least addicting things I've ever tried.
Hell, a good steak is more addicting than pot.

[WhoDeyWho]

(11-04-2015, 02:28 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Smoked some pot in college. Wasn't for me. Haven't smoked since.

Started drinking large amounts of caffeine in college, haven't been able to get fully off.

Pot is by far one of the least addicting things I've ever tried.
Hell, a good steak is more addicting than pot.

Did you know alcohol is one of the few drugs that can kill you while trying to come off of it?  

[Benton]

(11-04-2015, 02:15 PM)PDub80 Wrote: 1 - Again with the addiction thing... People can become addicted to huffing spray paint form a bag. That doesn't mean that spray paint or bags should be illegal. Why do the weed backers always think it's about addiction?

2 I'm laughing my ass off at "People try caffeine". Ahahahahahaha! Do you live in Amish country?

3 Saying that the effects of ingesting a normal amount of caffeine in a soda or a cup of coffee (again, ANYTHING can be abused) and equating that to weed is absurd. It's a petty, weak argument that doesn't compare in the least. The effects of a normal amount of caffeine compared to weed once ingested is incomparable. To even begin to assert so shows how weak your stance is. That's what you have in your arsenal of relate-able norms in society? A Mountain Dew? A Venti Starbucks?

4 ^ Question? Are you knowingly saying that or is it just what stoners say to make themselves feel better about their drug use? I can see it now: Guy takes a long draw from a bong, "Man, this is no different than a latte at Starbucks. Only, it just relaxes me from my impossible day."  

5 It isn't socially acceptable and widely accepted as normal by most people's standard.

6 - You're pointing to medical conditions and medicine for it. Medicinal weed is a different subject than legalizing recreational marijuana.

1- You're losing me here. You're in favor of people having the ability to huff spray paint, but you're opposed to weed? I think it's probably just a miscommunication. As far as the addiction, that's typically the primary concern, people who can't stop. The guy who drinks a few too many and then drives or the person who takes more than the prescribed amount of pills.

2- There's an Amish community nearby, yes. Caffeine is a socially acceptable psychoactive stimulant. That's a drug. It's a very addictive one and has a variety of negative side effects. Just because you find it more acceptable than pot doesn't make it any less of a drug.

3- One is a drug that alters the mood, appetite, nervous system and effects areas of the brain. The other is a drug that alters the mood, appetite, nervous system and effects areas of the brain.They both effect people differently. I wasn't going to be derogatory, but since you're being aggressive with the "weak" argument label, the weakness of yours is that you fail to realize both drugs (THC and caffiene) effect people differently. Some people smoke pot and feel no effects (negative or positive) because of the way they're wired. Some people drink a caffeniated beverage and become very adversely effected.

You're applying a one-size fits all label to both drugs and that's silly.

4- As said, I don't smoke. And — again, since you're taking this down a confrontational road — to counter, I'd ask, do you look down from your caffeinated high horse and ridicule people have a different proclivity to a drug than you? That they prefr the altering effects of nicotine, THC or whatever to your caffeine?

5- I could have worded that better (sorry, only two cups of coffee this morning). I was referring to caffeine being a socially acceptable psychoactive drug. 

6- And? One is accepted an less regulated, others are less accepted and more regulated?

As a side note, I didn't finish it, but I originally started school to become a substance abuse counselor. One of the first things that surprised me was how much of an effect caffeine has on a person. I realize you do it so you think it's not much, but you should read up on it.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(11-04-2015, 02:30 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Did you know alcohol is one of the few drugs that can kill you while trying to come off of it?  

Watch out for that REEFER MADNESS! tho

[WhoDeyWho]

(11-04-2015, 02:36 PM)Benton Wrote: 1- You're losing me here. You're in favor of people having the ability to huff spray paint, but you're opposed to weed? I think it's probably just a miscommunication. As far as the addiction, that's typically the primary concern, people who can't stop. The guy who drinks a few too many and then drives or the person who takes more than the prescribed amount of pills.

2- There's an Amish community nearby, yes. Caffeine is a socially acceptable psychoactive stimulant. That's a drug. It's a very addictive one and has a variety of negative side effects. Just because you find it more acceptable than pot doesn't make it any less of a drug.

3- One is a drug that alters the mood, appetite, nervous system and effects areas of the brain. The other is a drug that alters the mood, appetite, nervous system and effects areas of the brain.They both effect people differently. I wasn't going to be derogatory, but since you're being aggressive with the "weak" argument label, the weakness of yours is that you fail to realize both drugs (THC and caffiene) effect people differently. Some people smoke pot and feel no effects (negative or positive) because of the way they're wired. Some people drink a caffeniated beverage and become very adversely effected.

You're applying a one-size fits all label to both drugs and that's silly.

4- As said, I don't smoke. And — again, since you're taking this down a confrontational road — to counter, I'd ask, do you look down from your caffeinated high horse and ridicule people have a different proclivity to a drug than you? That they prefr the altering effects of nicotine, THC or whatever to your caffeine?

5- I could have worded that better (sorry, only two cups of coffee this morning). I was referring to caffeine being a socially acceptable psychoactive drug. 

6- And? One is accepted an less regulated, others are less accepted and more regulated?

As a side note, I didn't finish it, but I originally started school to become a substance abuse counselor. One of the first things that surprised me was how much of an effect caffeine has on a person. I realize you do it so you think it's not much, but you should read up on it.

Drink a couple of cups of Starbucks and tell me it doesn't get your heart racing.  It does mine.  

[PDub80]

(11-04-2015, 02:12 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: If this makes society a "victim" so does people who don't get an education.  I mean I have to pay for all these social services on account that some people just suck at life.  We don't arrest people for that so I don't see any reason why we should arbitrarily arrest people who use pot.  Moreover, not all users of pot are "losers".  That's just propaganda.  




If you didn't care, you wouldn't be OK with making them criminals for their choices.  Especially choices that don't directly affect other individuals.  



And alcohol is LEGAL.  And a celebrated part of our culture.  Which makes you wonder why pot is arbitrarily singled out.


Studies overwhelmingly suggest their is a direct correlation with income and education.  There are outliers of course, but on the whole educated people make over a million dollars in their lifetime over uneducated people.  


It isn't dumb.  Pot hasn't always been illegal.  Alcohol wasn't illegal.  Then it became illegal.  And then it became legal once again.  Did the intoxicating effects of the drug change?  Or was it simply people's attitudes towards it?

- 2nd time I am posting this: I did NOT say to put people in jail for smoking weed. That is a different subject. PLEASE STOP GOING TO YOUR PRO-WEED ROLODEX AND THROWING OUT ALL OF THE STEREOTYPICAL ANSWERS AND DEFENSES.

- Again with the school argument.... That's just propaganda.

- All people who smoke weed aren't losers. Neither are all alcoholics. Why does it have to be all or nothing from your perspective?

- Again, if you think that drug use only effects the user.... That's just stoner propaganda.

- I don't judge people on their income and did not bring income into it. Side note, $1,000,000 isn't a lot of money over a typical work span. It's roughly $20,000 per year at the very end and AFTER compound interest rolls the actual yearly amount into the million. Also, studies show that the amount of money someone makes over $70,000 does not directly contribute to overall happiness.

- Again comparing weed to alcohol.... Almost ANYTHING can be abused and have negative effects. You can not abuse alcohol and be still be sober and of sound mind. You use weed to get F'd up. No comparison there.

[Brownshoe]

(11-04-2015, 02:42 PM)PDub80 Wrote: - 2nd time I am posting this: I did NOT say to put people in jail for smoking weed. That is a different subject. PLEASE STOP GOING TO YOUR PRO-WEED ROLODEX AND THROWING OUT ALL OF THE STEREOTYPICAL ANSWERS AND DEFENSES.

- Again with the school argument.... That's just propaganda.

- All people who smoke weed aren't losers. Neither are all alcoholics. Why does it have to be all or nothing from your perspective?

- Again, if you think that drug use only effects the user.... That's just stoner propaganda.

- I don't judge people on their income and did not bring income into it. Side note, $1,000,000 isn't a lot of money over a typical work span. It's roughly $20,000 per year at the very end and AFTER compound interest rolls the actual yearly amount into the million. Also, studies show that the amount of money someone makes over $70,000 does not directly contribute to overall happiness.

- Again comparing weed to alcohol.... Almost ANYTHING can be abused and have negative effects. You can not abuse alcohol and be still be sober and of sound mind. You use weed to get F'd up. No comparison there.

Why do you keep saying that? Why do you think when you smoke weed you always abuse it? You don't always smoke weed to get ****** up. That's a huge assumption that you get wrong

[RoyleRedlegs]

(11-04-2015, 02:41 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Drink a couple of cups of Starbucks and tell me it doesn't get your heart racing.  It does mine.  

[*bfine32*]

What standardized test is there for a LEO to determine if someone is driving under the influence of Marijuana?

[Brownshoe]

(11-04-2015, 02:48 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What standardized test is there for a LEO to determine if someone is driving under the influence of Marijuana?

There is a breathalyzer test that does.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(11-04-2015, 02:48 PM)bfine32 Wrote: What standardized test is there for a LEO to determine if someone is driving under the influence of Marijuana?

Say the word "pudding" if they giggle, you have probable cause. 
Or offer them some Taco Bell and White Castle. They say yes, they're either drunk or stoned. 

[*bfine32*]

(11-04-2015, 02:50 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: There is a breathilizer test that does.

...and this would be the only thing that would cause me pause to legalize it. I must admit I've never heard of such a device.

The opportunity to enter and exit the production market is often limited in the early statges of an endeavor.

[WhoDeyWho]

(11-04-2015, 02:42 PM)PDub80 Wrote: - 2nd time I am posting this: I did NOT say to put people in jail for smoking weed. That is a different subject. PLEASE STOP GOING TO YOUR PRO-WEED ROLODEX AND THROWING OUT ALL OF THE STEREOTYPICAL ANSWERS AND DEFENSES.

- Again with the school argument.... That's just propaganda.

Quote:Those with bachelor's degrees, no matter the field, earn vastly more than counterparts with some college ($1.55 million in lifetime earnings) or a high school diploma ($1.30 million lifetime), indicating that no matter the level of attainment or the field of study, simply earning a four-year degree is often integral to financial success later in life. 


http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2011/08/05/how-higher-education-affects-lifetime-salary

Quote:- All people who smoke weed aren't losers. Neither are all alcoholics. Why does it have to be all or nothing from your perspective?

That seems to be your perspective:  we shouldn't allow for legal use of pot because it makes some people losers.

Quote:- Again, if you think that drug use only effects the user.... That's just stoner propaganda.

My dad is a recovering alcoholic who use to get drunk and beat my mom and us.  So obviously in some cases there are victims.  Nonetheless alcohol is legal and I would prefer it stay that way.  It is silly to say me getting high after a day at the office impacts you in any meaningful way.  Just like it is silly to say that someone drinking a beer or getting hammered at a bar affects me if they called a cab to take them home.  

Quote:- I don't judge people on their income and did not bring income into it. Side note, $1,000,000 isn't a lot of money over a typical work span. It's roughly $20,000 per year at the very end and AFTER compound interest rolls the actual yearly amount into the million. Also, studies show that the amount of money someone makes over $70,000 does not directly contribute to overall happiness.

What exactly are you making your judgments based on then?  Other than your prejudice against people who choose to get high?  

Quote:- Again comparing weed to alcohol.... Almost ANYTHING can be abused and have negative effects. You can not abuse alcohol and be still be sober and of sound mind. You use weed to get F'd up. No comparison there.

I was a bartender at Kilroy's Sports Bar in college and tended bar for about 10 years following as a part-time job.  My anecdotal observations suggest the overwhelming majority of my customers used alcohol for the purposes of obtaining a buzz.  Newsflash.  Miller lite and Bud light doesn't taste all that good.  And I can take a couple puffs of a vaporizer and be less intoxicated than drinking an IPA.  Regardless it is irrelevant.  As long as people aren't hurting someone else, why is it any of your business whether they choose to get intoxicated or not.  

[RoyleRedlegs]

(11-04-2015, 02:53 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ...and this would be the only thing that would cause me pause to legalize it.

The opportunity to enter and exit the production market is often limited in the early statges of an endeavor.

Usually with a new product. 
Pot isn't new. It's not a "trade secret" on how to grow and cultivate pot. 
People do it in their basements. 

[PDub80]

(11-04-2015, 02:36 PM)Benton Wrote: 1- You're losing me here. You're in favor of people having the ability to huff spray paint, but you're opposed to weed? I think it's probably just a miscommunication. As far as the addiction, that's typically the primary concern, people who can't stop. The guy who drinks a few too many and then drives or the person who takes more than the prescribed amount of pills.

2- There's an Amish community nearby, yes. Caffeine is a socially acceptable psychoactive stimulant. That's a drug. It's a very addictive one and has a variety of negative side effects. Just because you find it more acceptable than pot doesn't make it any less of a drug.

3- One is a drug that alters the mood, appetite, nervous system and effects areas of the brain. The other is a drug that alters the mood, appetite, nervous system and effects areas of the brain.They both effect people differently. I wasn't going to be derogatory, but since you're being aggressive with the "weak" argument label, the weakness of yours is that you fail to realize both drugs (THC and caffiene) effect people differently. Some people smoke pot and feel no effects (negative or positive) because of the way they're wired. Some people drink a caffeniated beverage and become very adversely effected.

You're applying a one-size fits all label to both drugs and that's silly.

4- As said, I don't smoke. And — again, since you're taking this down a confrontational road — to counter, I'd ask, do you look down from your caffeinated high horse and ridicule people have a different proclivity to a drug than you? That they prefr the altering effects of nicotine, THC or whatever to your caffeine?

5- I could have worded that better (sorry, only two cups of coffee this morning). I was referring to caffeine being a socially acceptable psychoactive drug. 

6- And? One is accepted an less regulated, others are less accepted and more regulated?

As a side note, I didn't finish it, but I originally started school to become a substance abuse counselor. One of the first things that surprised me was how much of an effect caffeine has on a person. I realize you do it so you think it's not much, but you should read up on it.

No, I was saying that there are other legal things that when abused can get someone screwed up. This was in retort to people continually pointing to coffee or soda or beer in this argument. The paint and bag was just there to demonstrate other normal things in society that people choose to abuse, but that doesn't mean they are =  to an actual recreational drug for the purpose of the conversation.

- There are 1,000s of stimulants in this world. 1,000s and some are legal and not particularly strong and some aren't. To equate the effects of caffeine as used in food products to the effects of weed does not work. Then, to point to minute exceptions to caffeine and weed is to skirt the point. Sorry for seeming rude.... if we were in normal conversation it would not have sounded that way in tone.

- I am not arguing that drugs in any way shape or form do not belong in society. I am arguing that weed is the lowest strength drug that should NOT be allowed and that I have a fundamental problem with allowing/sanctioning recreational drug use to become a societal norm. The line has to be drawn somewhere and it has to stay there. If we begin to move it, where do we stop?

-  I have actually cut caffeine out of my diet this year. The purpose of me drinking a pop was because I was thirsty or wanted a drink besides water. I have never had coffee or a drink of any kind for the purpose of altering my mood.

Guys, I realize I'm the strange one here... I have never drank, or smoked, or taken drugs. I try at all costs to avoid even Advil or something if I have a headache, aches, pains, or an injury from sports. Caffeine is the worst thing I have ever put in my body chemically. Not even energy drinks, etc.

[WhoDeyWho]

(11-04-2015, 02:55 PM)PDub80 Wrote: - I am not arguing that drugs in any way shape or form do not belong in society. I am arguing that weed is the lowest strength drug that should NOT be allowed and that I have a fundamental problem with allowing/sanctioning recreational drug use to become a societal norm. The line has to be drawn somewhere and it has to stay there. If we begin to move it, where do we stop?

This seems arbitrary when you consider that you can actually drink yourself to death in a sitting.  I've actually had friends that have died from drinking too much alcohol.  

Quote:-  I have actually cut caffeine out of my diet this year. The purpose of me drinking a pop was because I was thirsty or wanted a drink besides water. I have never had coffee or a drink of any kind for the purpose of altering my mood.

Awesome.  

Quote:Guys, I realize I'm the strange one here... I have never drank, or smoked, or taken drugs. I try at all costs to avoid even Advil or something if I have a headache, aches, pains, or an injury from sports. Caffeine is the worst thing I have ever put in my body chemically. Not even energy drinks, etc.

Consequently, we should all be forced by law to do as you do.  

[*bfine32*]

(11-04-2015, 02:54 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Usually with a new product. 
Pot isn't new. It's not a "trade secret" on how to grow and cultivate pot. 
People do it in their basements. 

...and from what I understand the passge of #3 would have allowed folks to do this legally.

We recently legalized Alcohol sales in my county; however, that did not mean every mom and pop could sell liquor out of their store. The number of licsense were limited.

To me the "it alters your mood' point is moot.

[Brownshoe]

(11-04-2015, 02:55 PM)PDub80 Wrote: No, I was saying that there are other legal things that when abused can get someone screwed up. This was in retort to people continually pointing to coffee or soda or beer in this argument. The paint and bag was just there to demonstrate other normal things in society that people choose to abuse, but that doesn't mean they are =  to an actual recreational drug for the purpose of the conversation.

- There are 1,000s of stimulants in this world. 1,000s and some are legal and not particularly strong and some aren't. To equate the effects of caffeine as used in food products to the effects of weed does not work. Then, to point to minute exceptions to caffeine and weed is to skirt the point. Sorry for seeming rude.... if we were in normal conversation it would not have sounded that way in tone.

- I am not arguing that drugs in any way shape or form do not belong in society. I am arguing that weed is the lowest strength drug that should NOT be allowed and that I have a fundamental problem with allowing/sanctioning recreational drug use to become a societal norm. The line has to be drawn somewhere and it has to stay there. If we begin to move it, where do we stop?

-  I have actually cut caffeine out of my diet this year. The purpose of me drinking a pop was because I was thirsty or wanted a drink besides water. I have never had coffee or a drink of any kind for the purpose of altering my mood.

Guys, I realize I'm the strange one here... I have never drank, or smoked, or taken drugs. I try at all costs to avoid even Advil or something if I have a headache, aches, pains, or an injury from sports. Caffeine is the worst thing I have ever put in my body chemically. Not even energy drinks, etc.

Why do you keep acting like you know that marijuana is just so much more potent than stuff like beer? You never had either, so you don't know what your talking about. You might have seen other people on both of them, but you still don't know for sure.

[Brownshoe]

(11-04-2015, 03:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: ...and from what I understand the passge of #3 would have allowed folks to do this legally.

We recently legalized Alcohol sales in my county; however, that did not mean every mom and pop could sell liquor out of their store. The number of licsense were limited.

To me the "it alters your mood' point is moot.

Anyone would have been able to sell if they had a license. They just couldn't commercially grow it for a few years.

[WhoDeyWho]

(11-04-2015, 03:01 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Why do you keep acting like you know that marijuana is just so much more potent than stuff like beer? You never had either, so you don't know what your talking about. You might have seen other people on both of them, but you still don't know for sure.

He's been fed enough propaganda to be an expert on the topic of drugs and their impact on the body.