Issue 3 (For Ohio Residents)

[WhoDeyWho]

(11-04-2015, 03:29 PM)Au165 Wrote: We can come back to why your brain associate caffeine laden products with being good, even though you don't directly think of the obvious benefits when choosing it. It's obvious you don't understand the chemical addiction within your brain that makes you want caffeine and through association products that usually contain them. The reason caffeine was added to soft drinks long ago was because of this association. The producers recognized the addictive properties of caffeine and how it would keep people coming back to their products.

Let's talk about this for a second. Please explain to me these effects of weed (by the way you set a dosage for caffeine but not weed) that makes weed so bad that it is laughable to compare.

Go drink 3 cups of Starbucks while I take a couple puffs of a vaporizer and tell me who is more intoxicated.  He seems to make the assumption that there is only one dosage for pot that gets you extremely ****** up, whereas other drugs can be taken in moderation.  

[Wes Mantooth]

(11-04-2015, 09:49 AM)PDub80 Wrote: 1.) I have a serious fundamental problem with people's growing desire to chemically change the way they feel. I look at drug use (and alcohol abuse) as a selfish act that removes someone from their real world responsibilities and life. We as a society have enough forms of recreation to be distracted or waste time. To add another that physically/chemically impairs is just ludicrous to me.

I have seen so many friends and people I grew up with become infatuated with getting high that it dominates a lot of their thoughts or activities and, in some cases, it has limited their life's potential. One of my life long best friends started smoking occasionally a few years ago. Now, at 35, he can't go anywhere other than work without being bored or wanting to smoke. He is habitually/mentally addicted. I can't, in good conscience, vote to give that the go ahead as a way of regular life for upcoming generations.

Side note: I find it funny that people even need to have weed legalized at this point. 2.) CLEARLY... CLEARLY people who want it have very little problem getting their hands on weed. Legalizing seems more like validation or confirmation of the psyche of drug users more than it is about health, wellness, taxes, or availability. Almost as if users need society to tell them it's ok to get F'd up or that we all feel the same pain or struggle with boredom and the desire to feel different.

1.) Obviously you have your opinion and are certainly entitled to it.  But so is everyone else.  Just because you have a problem with people's desire to chemically change the way they feel doesn't necessarily give you the right to control their choice to do so.

The last I checked alcohol is legal, right?  Throughout most parts of the world.  People use it in a variety of ways.  Some use it to relax or unwind, responsibly.  Some use to socially.  Some use it with dinner.  Some abuse it. Etc, etc, etc.  What exactly would be the fundamental difference between allowing people the same options and choices with marijuana?  Afterall, we're talking about a much, much less harmful drug. (See alcohol vs marijuana abuse in physical impact, social impact, relation to violence, etc.)

I mean, you can say "I don't like alcohol either".  That's all well and good, and you're entitled to think that way.  But it is legal.  And it will remain so. 

2.) Ding, ding, ding.  We have a winner.  GREAT point.  Anyone who currently wants to smoke week can smoke weed.  It's not hard to get.  So why not regulate and tax it.  If you're not preventing anyone from doing it then why not a.) make money on it, b.) keep money out of the hands of both drug dealers and cartels, c.) regulate, so that it is as safe as possible?

You know how marijuana can be a gateway drug?  Because some shady ass dealer sells that and about 10 other things.  And he says, "hey, try some of this" and bam, you know how are giving someone access to not only weed, but a number of other things.  That would not be the case in a retail store.

People should be allowed to make their own decisions, especially with something as harmless as marijuana.  Our time and resources would be better spent attacking the heroin epidemic, which was largely driven by prescription drug use.  Many people who are against "altering your mind" don't even bat an eye and the abundance of opiate prescriptions (vicodin, percocet, oxycotin) that lead to sever heroin epidemic.  One that causes death after death, breaks up families, violence, theft, millions in tax dollars and tons of resources to house and rehabilitate criminals.

It makes no sense to not regulate and tax something that you're preventing zero people from doing.  And if people recall how alcohol prohibition went then they should remember that it paved much of the way for organized crime.  (See: Capone, Al.)

[PDub80]

(11-04-2015, 03:35 PM)Au165 Wrote: No one goes to Starbucks and says "I got to have this to function today"?

I'm sure they do. But that is not the purpose of the drink. The purpose of weed is to get high.

Caffeine is found in lots of food and drinks that people consume. It does not affect the body the same way weed does or to the same level when ingested. Not even close.

[Brownshoe]

(11-04-2015, 03:39 PM)PDub80 Wrote:
I'm sure they do. But that is not the purpose of the drink. The purpose of weed is to get high.

Caffeine is found in lots of food and drinks that people consume. It does not affect the body the same way weed does or to the same level when ingested. Not even close.

Why do you keep saying that. Why do you think that's true? Its obviously not true.

[PDub80]

(11-04-2015, 03:35 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Go drink 3 cups of Starbucks while I take a couple puffs of a vaporizer and tell me who is more intoxicated.  He seems to make the assumption that there is only one dosage for pot that gets you extremely ***** up, whereas other drugs can be taken in moderation.  

3 cups of starbucks... You smoke three joints.

Dude, cocaine can be taken in moderation, too. I'm sure every drug can. Is that next on the list to make legal? Where does it stop?

[WhoDeyWho]

(11-04-2015, 03:39 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I'm sure they do. But that is not the purpose of the drink. The purpose of weed is to get high.

Caffeine is found in lots of food and drinks that people consume. It does not affect the body the same way weed does or to the same level when ingested. Not even close.

So it does not depend on the dosage?  I've gotten heart palpitations  from drinking too much coffee.

[PDub80]

(11-04-2015, 03:41 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Why do you keep saying that. Why do you think that's true? Its obviously not true.

It's not, dude. To say that is insane.

[Au165]

(11-04-2015, 03:39 PM)PDub80 Wrote: I'm sure they do. But that is not the purpose of the drink. The purpose of weed is to get high.

Caffeine is found in lots of food and drinks that people consume. It does not affect the body the same way weed does or to the same level when ingested. Not even close.

The purpose of a MORNING COFFEE is not to wake up? Okay...

Here is an article on caffeine from John Hopkins Medical. I suggest you read it before making any more ridiculous claims about it not being a "serious" drug.

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/psychiatry/research/BPRU/docs/Caffeine_Dependence_Fact_Sheet.pdf

Your right it is found in lots of foods and drinks. Which is one of the reason it is so hard to kick because of it's reinforcing effects. It doesn't effect it the same way because it is a stimulant not a sedative. Your complete lack of understanding differences in drugs  and effects does not equate to one being more or less dangerous is laughable.

[PDub80]

(11-04-2015, 03:42 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: So it does not depend on the dosage?  I've gotten heart palpitations  from drinking too much coffee.

Cool story?

[WhoDeyWho]

(11-04-2015, 03:42 PM)PDub80 Wrote: 3 cups of starbucks... You smoke three joints.

Dude, cocaine can be taken in moderation, too. I'm sure every drug can. Is that next on the list to make legal? Where does it stop?

Who in the hell smokes 3 joints?  Do beer drinkers automatically drink 3 cases?  I don't even smoke pot.  I use a vaporizer and puff off of it.  Depending on how I'm feeling, I might just take one puff and call it a day.    

You probably don't even know what a vaporizer is though.  

[Benton]

(11-04-2015, 03:13 PM)PDub80 Wrote:  
 But you're also talking to someone who thinks we as a society treat things with drugs or substances (prescribed or not) at an incredibly alarming rate.
 

I agree. I think there's an interesting mix. Part of it is the cultural push — the overstressed, overworked guy with a coffee cup, the friends relaxing with a beer, ADD kids getting medicated.

But I think there's another aspect. Our lifespans are longer now and we don't know how to adjust. Through most of history the lifespan was 30-40. In the last century it's pushing 70 for our part of the world. That's a huge jump that we haven't had time biologically to adjust to. If nothing changes, I think people will, over time, start to see the body producing more hormones and chemicals longer that control regulation of things we're having to use foreign chemicals to do now.

Aaaand I'm getting off topic.

[WhoDeyWho]

(11-04-2015, 03:44 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Cool story?

Are you really denying it is possible to drink enough coffee that it throws your heart out of whack?  

Quote:Heart palpitations can be bothersome or frightening. They usually aren't serious or harmful, though, and often go away on their own. Most of the time, they're related to stress and anxiety or to consumption of stimulants such as caffeine, nicotine, or alcohol. Palpitations also often occur during pregnancy.

http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/guide/what-causes-heart-palpitations

[Brownshoe]

(11-04-2015, 03:43 PM)PDub80 Wrote: It's not, dude. To say that is insane.

Explain why it isn't.... guess what you can't, because you don't know how it is to be high. You probably think it's like what the movies try and act like it is seeing rainbows and shit. You have no clue. You are guessing. It's like someone trying to explain how it feels when you have sex when the person is a virgin. The examples you are giving are about the same as

[PDub80]

(11-04-2015, 03:37 PM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: 1.) Obviously you have your opinion and are certainly entitled to it.  But so is everyone else.  Just because you have a problem with people's desire to chemically change the way they feel doesn't necessarily give you the right to control their choice to do so.

The last I checked alcohol is legal, right?  Throughout most parts of the world.  People use it in a variety of ways.  Some use it to relax or unwind, responsibly.  Some use to socially.  Some use it with dinner.  Some abuse it. Etc, etc, etc.  What exactly would be the fundamental difference between allowing people the same options and choices with marijuana?  Afterall, we're talking about a much, much less harmful drug. (See alcohol vs marijuana abuse in physical impact, social impact, relation to violence, etc.)

I mean, you can say "I don't like alcohol either".  That's all well and good, and you're entitled to think that way.  But it is legal.  And it will remain so. 

2.) Ding, ding, ding.  We have a winner.  GREAT point.  Anyone who currently wants to smoke week can smoke weed.  It's not hard to get.  So why not regulate and tax it.  If you're not preventing anyone from doing it then why not a.) make money on it, b.) keep money out of the hands of both drug dealers and cartels, c.) regulate, so that it is as safe as possible?

You know how marijuana can be a gateway drug?  Because some shady ass dealer sells that and about 10 other things.  And he says, "hey, try some of this" and bam, you know how are giving someone access to not only weed, but a number of other things.  That would not be the case in a retail store.

People should be allowed to make their own decisions, especially with something as harmless as marijuana.  Our time and resources would be better spent attacking the heroin epidemic, which was largely driven by prescription drug use.  Many people who are against "altering your mind" don't even bat an eye and the abundance of opiate prescriptions (vicodin, percocet, oxycotin) that lead to sever heroin epidemic.  One that causes death after death, breaks up families, violence, theft, millions in tax dollars and tons of resources to house and rehabilitate criminals.

It makes no sense to not regulate and tax something that you're preventing zero people from doing.  And if people recall how alcohol prohibition went then they should remember that it paved much of the way for organized crime.  (See: Capone, Al.)

The topic of the thread was the vote and people were saying how they voted, etc.

I posted my vote and people started quoting and having a dialogue. Of course my post was about MY vote. I didn't say "Damn all of you pot smokers to hell" or anything. And then people came in and wanted to try and justify their personal drug use to me. Ooook.

The rest of your post is really thought provoking and covers a tremendous amount of different issues. People have a problem with all sorts of drug use and abuse in the United States... we agree.... Then people, knowing this... want to try and make more drugs legally to find in stores and make at home.

Where do we draw the line on what is allowed in normal society and sanctioned under governing laws?

[PDub80]

(11-04-2015, 03:46 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Are you really denying it is possible to drink enough coffee that it throws your heart out of whack?  



http://www.webmd.com/heart-disease/guide/what-causes-heart-palpitations

You can do that with lots of things. Drink enough water and it can kill you. What's your point as how it relates to legalizing weed?

[PDub80]

(11-04-2015, 03:44 PM)WhoDeyWho Wrote: Who in the hell smokes 3 joints?  Do beer drinkers automatically drink 3 cases?  I don't even smoke pot.  I use a vaporizer and puff off of it.  Depending on how I'm feeling, I might just take one puff and call it a day.    

You probably don't even know what a vaporizer is though.  

Who the hell slams 3 cups of coffee one after another in a short amount of time? Not normal people.


I know what a vaporizer is. Why take one puff based on "how you are feeling?" How do you feel before you decide to smoke?

[WhoDeyWho]

(11-04-2015, 03:51 PM)PDub80 Wrote: You can do that with lots of things. Drink enough water and it can kill you. What's your point as how it relates to legalizing weed?

My point was too much of any drug (even the ones you personally approve of) is not a good thing.  That said too much pot isn't going to kill you.  And I've been more tweaked out after accidentally having too much coffee than pot.

Quote:Symptoms of overdose

• Irritability
• nervousness
• rapid heartbeat
• trouble sleeping
  

Some of the side effects that can occur with caffeine may not need medical attention. As your body adjusts to the medicine during treatment these side effects may go away. Your health care professional may also be able to tell you about ways to reduce or prevent some of these side effects. If any of the following side effects continue, are bothersome or if you have any questions about them, check with your health care professional:

[Au165]

(11-04-2015, 03:50 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Where do we draw the line on what is allowed in normal society and sanctioned under governing laws?

 Most people's issue is the hypocrisy and arbitrariness with you deciding this is the line without any real reason other than "we have to draw it somewhere". You keep sighting effects that you never detail what they are and why they are so bad. Basically you have picked a random line in the sand to stand behind and that bothers others, and even those who like me that have no interest in pot.

[PDub80]

(11-04-2015, 03:50 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: Explain why it isn't.... guess what you can't, because you don't know how it is to be high. You probably think it's like what the movies try and act like it is seeing rainbows and shit. You have no clue. You are guessing. It's like someone trying to explain how it feels when you have sex when the person is a virgin. The examples you are giving are about the same as

LOL....

You ARE still in school. I could tell. This stuff probably does work on your parents. Not on me, kid.

[WhoDeyWho]

(11-04-2015, 03:53 PM)PDub80 Wrote: Who the hell slams 3 cups of coffee one after another in a short amount of time? Not normal people.


I know what a vaporizer is. Why take one puff based on "how you are feeling?" How do you feel before you decide to smoke?

How do you feel before you drink a cup of coffee?  And I was in college at the time, and I don't usually drink coffee so my tolerance was low.  Hell, I'm more likely to catch a buzz from a cig at this point in my life than I am from a puff of pot from my vaporizer.  Each body is different, and like any other drug, you build up a tolerance to it.