Joey B vs Andy vibe

[Stewy]

(12-27-2021, 05:14 PM)jason Wrote: They even still around? I liked Dalton as much as anybody, and thought he took a bit too much shit, but he's been gone for like 800 days... I've let go.

As have most people.  The majority of the AD posts come from AD haters, not AD lovers.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-27-2021, 08:41 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Andy Dalton is the perfect encapsulation of why you shouldn't stop when you find a "good enough" QB.

If I were the Bengals head coach or general manager, I'd cherish having a solid QB like Dalton, but I'd keep chasing that elite QB prospect. Dalton was not good enough to have never been given any competition for the starting QB position for nearly a decade.

Dalton was a good QB. Given the right receivers and line, he can win you a lot of games but he was never a franchise QB and we shouldn't have treated him like one.

But stating this is apparently considered bashing Dalton, so *shrug*.

No, I think this is spot on. There’s a reason someone came up with the “Dalton line.” Cleveland is going to have a very difficult choice coming up wrt Baker. I view him around the same level.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

I’m a fan of whoever the Bengals line up behind center. With that said, we need to give Andy Dalton his due props. He holds an 0.534 winning percentage as a Bengal. That’s impressive, and so is leading the Bengals to five consecutive playoff appearances. Andy was tough, durable, rarely injured, and he rose to the occasion against quality opponents. The Bengals got a lot out of a second round pick when they took Andy from TCU.

Andy Dalton is my favorite former Bengal; I’ll never be a fan of the new teams he’s on but I’ll always be a fan of him.

Joe Burrow has a much higher bar to surpass than Andy Dalton did. Most football enthusiasts agree Dalton was an overachiever. In Joe’s case anything short of spectacular play will be considered underachieving and that’s not fair. It’s not fair to Joe Burrow and it’s not fair to the Bengals.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-27-2021, 10:16 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: No one without an agenda can objectively look at Burrow and Andy and think Andy was the better QB or better leader. Time will tell what happens, but Andy took over a team 1 year removed from the playoffs. Burrow took over a team 4 years removed from the playoffs going through monumental shifts (for better or for worse). There is also a reason Andy has not consistently stayed a starter since leaving Cincy. Love AD, but facts are facts.

I am with you Rubekahn as I think are about everybody. Dalton was a very good QB for us but he never had that IT factor
and most people besides Fred know what we mean. A swagger, a way of playing the game that makes everyone around you 
confident that you can beat anyone etc.

[CJD]

(12-27-2021, 10:22 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: No, I think this is spot on. There’s a reason someone came up with the “Dalton line.” Cleveland is going to have a very difficult choice coming up wrt Baker. I view him around the same level.

They should just rename it the Baker Line  . It'll be more relevant for the decade to come.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-27-2021, 10:02 PM)Rubekahn29 Wrote: You’re just showing blind ignorance to my point. He is one win away from having the same amount of wins as Andy had his 2nd year, and has already put up more 40 point games than Andy did. Andy didn’t have a 40 point game until year 3. Burrow has had 3 before year 3.

If he has 10 wins by the end of the year, he would have done so by being down less than Andy was his 2nd year.

Like I said, 4th quarter comebacks are not always a good thing. There is a reason the GOAT, still doesn’t lead the history books in 4th quarter comebacks even though he has played 4 seasons more and many more playoff games more than number 1. His team takes the lead and stays on it, which is what Burrow has done in many of their wins this year.

Palmer only had 6 games of 40+ points in 97 starts.
Dalton had 4 in 133 starts.

Just like with our playoff woes, it had way more to do with Marv's old school conservative, defensive minded approach. He had the mentality that if you kept it close, you could rely on the other team making a mistake.

He didn't go for the throat like Zac, who is an offensive minded former QB.

People want to blame Andy because they don't like Andy. He wasn't a stud top 5 QB. That doesn't mean he's why we lost playoff games. Marv was 0-3 with other QBs. We also weren't dropping 40 burgers much with other QBs.

The fact that Zac is more willing to attack and be aggressive (rather than play not to lose) is just as big a reason as Joe Burrow for why I look forward to the playoffs.

If Marv was still here, he'd keep Burrow on a leash.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-27-2021, 10:22 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: No, I think this is spot on. There’s a reason someone came up with the “Dalton line.” Cleveland is going to have a very difficult choice coming up wrt Baker. I view him around the same level.

The dude who created the Dalton line was Gregg Rosenthal, and anyone familiar with the guy knows he's been very pro-Steelers through the years. He often had very anti-Bengals takes, even while we were winning.

The issue I had with the Dalton line is that there were lots of QBs putting up average stats every year. Flacco. Newton. Cutler. Tannehill. Bradford. Carr. Alex Smith, etc etc.

Yeah the first 2 guys played in Super Bowls, but...better franchises. They were definitely average QBs looking at their careers.

Either way, the overall point is that MANY QBs put up "solid" but not great stats every year, yet had long term starter gigs. People act like Dalton was some unique situation, but that's not reality.

[Tony]

(12-27-2021, 04:32 PM)kalibengal Wrote: Ok, so I have to say I have not felt this way since the Boomer Esiason Era but it definitely is a diff vibe with Burrow vs when Andy D was at the helm and making playoff runs. Im getting that Boomer Esiason era feeling and it feels good knowing we now have a true leader and great player at the helm now. Not saying Dalton was a bad leader,  but he did not have the IT factor we all talk about with JB.
This of course could all get tossed in the gutter after the KC game but for now... YEA thats a great place to be in my mind!

I always felt like Andy sucked

[Tony]

(12-27-2021, 06:02 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Guys like Kalibengal starting this thread obviously can't let it go.

But I will add this.  Over his first two seasons Burrow has one 4th quarter comeback win and two 4th quarter game winning drives.  Over Dalton's first two seasons he had 4 each.

Fans make up stuff in their head and see what they want to see.  So far Burrow has not done anything that would support the claim that he is a "great leader".  Not saying there is anything wrong with Burrow's leadership ability.  Just saying all these people claiming he is a "great leader" just feel that way with nothing really to support it.

Cherry picking at its finest... 

[BengalYankee]

[Roland]

(12-27-2021, 09:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is the silliest argument I ever heard.

We would have more than 9 wins if Burrow could lead fourth quarter comebacks like Dalton.  

You might have a point if Burrow had won more than Dalton, but he hasn't.

Not really a fair comparison.  Andy Dalton started his career with a full preseason and with a 7th ranked Mike Zimmer defense to keep games close.   Joe Burrow started with no preseason, no fans in the stands, and a 26th ranked Lou Anarumo defense.   

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-28-2021, 03:16 AM)Roland Wrote: Not really a fair comparison.  Andy Dalton started his career with a full preseason and with a 7th ranked Mike Zimmer defense to keep games close.   Joe Burrow started with no preseason, no fans in the stands, and a 26th ranked Lou Anarumo defense.   

No full preseason, just the games, that was the year of the lockout. New offensive coordinator too. Chad was gone, the team was 4-12 the year prior, and a lot of the media were predicting 0-16. There were more similarities than folks remember.

[Murdock2420]

(12-27-2021, 06:07 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He was named a team captain as a rookie when a bunch of people including you said that wouldn’t happen.

Seriously? Captain status? Jared Goff is a captain for the Lions and he is utter trash.

Most QBs get the captain status as they need to have control of the huddle.

With that being said, I think Burrow has a different swagger to him than Dalton did. Dalton was a calm, keep it together, and be a good guy as he leads. Burrow has more cockiness to him and is a more out-spoken guy, seems more likely to get in someone's face and push for better results.

Not saying one is better than the other. Just different and as long as it works for the guys on the team and produces results, who cares.

[rankrank1]

(12-28-2021, 03:16 AM)Roland Wrote: Not really a fair comparison.  Andy Dalton started his career with a full preseason and with a 7th ranked Mike Zimmer defense to keep games close.   Joe Burrow started with no preseason, no fans in the stands, and a 26th ranked Lou Anarumo defense.   

In fairness to Andy his draft year was 2011 and 2011 was the year of the owner lockout if I am not mistaken.  Andy did not have anywhere near the luxury of a traditional offseason workouts or preseason time with coaches that would have been very beneficial to any rookie.  I was always impressed with Andy for doing as well as he did with out that usual prep time his rookie year. 

Andy was servica-eble and helped take some the sting of the Carson Palmer fiasco situation away somewhat.  That all said he was not talented as Palmer (although a classier human being IMOP).  I will say I view Andy limited talent wise but a winner.  I do not view Carson Palmer as anything close to a winner (same boat as Carlos Dunlap for me) regardless of his talent.  Talent alone does not translate to success. 

Fair or not my expectations are way different for a Number 1 overall pick as compared to a rather late 2nd round pick.  Comparing Burrow to Andy is pointless and ragging on Andy serves no purpose at all.  I like Burrow better than any QB to ever wear a Bengal uniform so far.  I am old enough to have seen most of them from Anderson till now.  Kenny Anderson would be my 2nd choice as next best Bengal QB hands down.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-28-2021, 03:39 AM)Murdock2420 Wrote: Seriously? Captain status? Jared Goff is a captain for the Lions and he is utter trash.

Most QBs get the captain status as they need to have control of the huddle.

With that being said, I think Burrow has a different swagger to him than Dalton did. Dalton was a calm, keep it together, and be a good guy as he leads. Burrow has more cockiness to him and is a more out-spoken guy, seems more likely to get in someone's face and push for better results.

Not saying one is better than the other. Just different and as long as it works for the guys on the team and produces results, who cares.

Umm…Goff is in his 6th year. Burrow was a captain as a rookie. Now, maybe it doesn’t mean that much since QB’s like your boy Sunshine and Zach Wilson were also named captains as rookies (and both have been completely terrible), but no - - not all rookie QB’s are just automatically captains so they can “control the huddle.” Dalton was not a captain as a rookie. And I only brought it up because Fred argued it wasn’t going to happen with Burrow either. But anyone that was even remotely familiar with him knew he would be.

[Watersider]

Stats tell you a lot, but not everything. Judging a quarterback by 4th quarter comebacks seems a weirdly unreliable way to assess quality. I think the ops point isn't saying anything against Dalton, it's just highlighting how as a fan it feels different watching Burrow, and I agree with that.

Dalton was a good quarterback and things really clicked in 2015 where it felt like he had the right team and a bit of aura about him but Dalton was limited in broken plays and when outside the pocket. It never felt comfortable. Burrow controls the game and doesn't get flustered while also making plays like big Ben, he's the best I've ever seen in Bengals jersey.

Like others said, Palmer was a great passer but had terrible mobility and seemed mentally fragile after 05. Blake was exciting but not accurate, I only remember boomer as a little one, so can't comment on him.

[Sled21]

I'll never bash Andy, he is/was a good Quarterback most NFL teams would have loved to have. More importantly, he is a genuinely good person who did a lot for the city. But he is linked to Marvin Lewis in more ways than they were here at the same time. Both would win you a lot of games, but they had a ceiling they could not, for one reason or another, get through, and that was winning in the playoffs. As much fun as a 5-year playoff run was, I really got tired of hearing "one and done" Burrow has been a champion at every level he has played at so far, and I truly think he will win us the Super Bowl in the near future. Could Andy have done that if things had gone differently, probably, but they didn't. So Thank You Andy Dalton for your time here, but the future belongs to the Kid from Athens.

[muskiesfan]

I was always a Dalton fan and still am. I wish him well and hope he finds what he's looking for. There's no reason to still dump on the guy. He was a good QB who helped the franchise become relevant and did a lot for the city. Burrow is definitely a better QB, but what does it matter? Is it really that important to continue to bash Dalton for whatever reason? He's played for 2 different teams and is no longer on the roster. If you don't like the guy why still bring him up? He's gone and we have a better QB now. Be happy with Burrow instead of still digging up ways to trash Dalton.

[hoosierbengal]

This is all kinda silly.

[fredtoast]

(12-27-2021, 08:41 PM)Crazyjdawg Wrote: Dalton was a good QB. Given the right receivers and line, he can win you a lot of games

Just curious, but what exactly did Burrow accomplish in his first 4 years of college when he did not have an all-time record number of NFL draft picks starting around him?  *Hint* he was the 12th rated QB in the 14 team SEC his junior year.

And what did he do last year without elite talent around him?

Meanwhile Dalton also went undefeated his senior year and TCU finished ranked #2 in the nation despite Dalton only having 2 other NFL players on the entire team.