Joey B vs Andy vibe

[fredtoast]

(12-30-2021, 09:10 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: No to get too far off topic but who did you guys favor at QB in that 2011 draft?

I'll admit that I liked Ryan Mallett after seeing his pro day workouts.  

Who you got?

Be honest.

I don't think anyone had a problem at the time with picking AJ Green in the 1st.

Draft specialist and most on the planet said he was a can't miss prospect.

I actually like the selectionof Dalton, but too be honest I ripped the Bengals for not signing an experienced veteran QB to be a "bridge" for a year until Dalton was ready to start.

And I wanted Patrick Peterson in the first instead of Green.  As an SEC fan I knew they were both great players, but I just felt CB was more important than WR.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-30-2021, 04:15 AM)Roland Wrote: You're quoting sources that only confirm my position.   Dalton had access to a playbook via Jordan Palmer.  It wasn't unveiled to the entire offensive unit until training camp.   The article also affirms that Dalton had the benefit of Zimmer's defense, a vastly better offensive line, and a lot of veteran leaders like Whitworth, Peko, Williams, and Crocker.


Nope, what I said was absolutely correct and that included the fact that Dalton had an impressive start for a rookie.  But as I said, he had the benefit of a full preseason and a veteran team that was already in position to win.  You're arguing that OTAs are more important than a full preseason, an offensive line that can keep their QB upright for more than 2 seconds, and a defense that can keep games within reach for "a timing and rhythm quarterback."  

Even the story you cite says it: Andy Dalton was no Carson Palmer.  Joe Burrow is all that and a bag of chips.

I'm not even comparing the two. Joe Burrow is the far better QB.

I'm just saying it's ridiculous and revisionist history to pretend Dalton didn't face extra adversity that off-season. The entire offense (including several rookies) had to learn the offense on the fly, not being fully introduced to the playbook until August, while missing many off-season activities.

Veteran presence doesn't help much when the veterans don't know the offense.

My article confirms MY stance, which is that Dalton barely had access to a playbook, didn't possess one of his own until well after the draft, and even if he had one at some point before preseason, most of his teammates did NOT...which still = bad news for Dalton.

This has gotten embarrassing. I'm done here.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

(12-30-2021, 04:19 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'm not even comparing the two. Joe Burrow is the far better QB.

I'm just saying it's ridiculous and revisionist history to pretend Dalton didn't face extra adversity that off-season. The entire offense (including several rookies) had to learn the offense on the fly, not being fully introduced to the playbook until August, while missing many off-season activities.

Veteran presence doesn't help much when the veterans don't know the offense.

My article confirms MY stance, which is that Dalton barely had access to a playbook, didn't possess one of his own until well after the draft, and even if he had one at some point before preseason, most of his teammates did NOT...which still = bad news for Dalton.

This has gotten embarrassing. I'm done here.

pre thumb injury and post thumb injury they were different players. Dalton's problem after the thumb injury you took away his first read and provided pressure he generally folded like a lawn chair. We had good lines his first few years probably helped a bit as well. He was a Top 3 MVP candidate before the thumb injury.

[Big_Ern]

(12-30-2021, 03:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So If Burrow has the ability to win any game why does he chose to lose so many?

And when did Mahommes play on the same team with Burrow?

Your reading comprehension is not very good.  Ability to win every game doesn't mean guaranteed to win every game.  Besides, you need to take that one up with Mahomes.  Game recognizes game 

[TecmoBengals]

(12-30-2021, 03:51 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So If Burrow has the ability to win any game why does he chose to lose so many?

And when did Mahommes play on the same team with Burrow?

Toasty with more nonsensical posting. The absurd posts continue.

[TecmoBengals]

(12-30-2021, 04:54 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: Your reading comprehension is not very good.  Ability to win every game doesn't mean guaranteed to win every game.  Besides, you need to take that one up with Mahomes.  Game recognizes game 

The troll values his own opinion more than a Super Bowl winning QB. 

[fredtoast]

(12-30-2021, 04:54 PM)Big_Ern Wrote: Ability to win every game doesn't mean guaranteed to win every game.  

That is exactly my point.  If Joe has the ability to win every game then he is a massive UNDERACHIEVER.

[Big_Ern]

(12-30-2021, 10:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: That is exactly my point.  If Joe has the ability to win every game then he is a massive UNDERACHIEVER.

This comment is so stupid I shouldn't even reply.  Not to mention you made up the statement he has the ability to win every game, that wasn't even in Mahome's quote.  Again with your reading comprehension...

the quote said "that mentality of ‘I’m going to win no matter what", yet you changed it to try to make a point to "the ability to win every game", which he does have the ability to win every game. That is why the saying "any given Sunday" exists.  


Just like when you claimed you had all these receipts of posters saying that Burrow could win solely on swag, but when you found the quotes they all pointed out ability too.  

[Nicomo Cosca]

Yet another person who thinks Burrow’s leadership and personality are a huge factor…

.@damienwoody would take Joe Burrow over Patrick Mahomes over the next five years.

“I’m gonna go with Joe Burrow!” pic.twitter.com/jRDCMkxT7V

— First Take (@FirstTake) December 30, 2021

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-30-2021, 09:10 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: No to get too far off topic but who did you guys favor at QB in that 2011 draft?

I'll admit that I liked Ryan Mallett after seeing his pro day workouts.  

Who you got?

Be honest.

I don't think anyone had a problem at the time with picking AJ Green in the 1st.

Draft specialist and most on the planet said he was a can't miss prospect.

Same, I liked Mallett with his big arm and size. Thought if we got the OL fixed he could of been really good.

[Mike M (the other one)]

(12-28-2021, 11:06 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Just curious, but what exactly did Burrow accomplish in his first 4 years of college when he did not have an all-time record number of NFL draft picks starting around him?  *Hint* he was the 12th rated QB in the 14 team SEC his junior year.

And what did he do last year without elite talent around him?

Meanwhile Dalton also went undefeated his senior year and TCU finished ranked #2 in the nation despite Dalton only having 2 other NFL players on the entire team.

*hint he wasn't a starter in his first 3 years. Only started in his 4th and 5th seasons (redshirted as a freshman).

Anyways, this one *crappy year he had (which was his first year as a starter in the SEC, with a lot of NFL level players) he put up just as good, if not better numbers than Dalton in any of his 4 years of starting at TCU (and going up against weaker, non-NFL talent level players).

Dalton is what he is, avg to slightly better than avg, and he did a great job for many years. 
Burrow is NOT avg to slightly better, he's borderline elite.

if you want to keep arguing this, then go ahead. I haven't posted in ages, but i keep telling people this is a young team that only needs to become more consistent. Once they get that mastered, they will be able to beat anyone in the NFL.

[Rubekahn29]

(12-28-2021, 11:06 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Just curious, but what exactly did Burrow accomplish in his first 4 years of college when he did not have an all-time record number of NFL draft picks starting around him?  *Hint* he was the 12th rated QB in the 14 team SEC his junior year.

And what did he do last year without elite talent around him?

Meanwhile Dalton also went undefeated his senior year and TCU finished ranked #2 in the nation despite Dalton only having 2 other NFL players on the entire team.

It doesn’t even matter what they did in college at this point. Almost through the end of Burrow’s 2nd season, Burrow leads the league in YPA, 2nd in Passer Rating behind A-Rod and is top 5 and top 10 in most other categories. Pretty sure Dalton did not do that his 2nd year. Your blind arrogance and nature to argue really makes you sound like “old man yelling at clouds.”

[*jason*]

Is it ok to like both Joe Burrow and and Andy Dalton? Asking for a friend.

[*PhilHos*]

(12-31-2021, 02:46 PM)jason Wrote: Is it ok to like both Joe Burrow and and Andy Dalton? Asking for a friend.

Yes. I do.

[*jason*]

(12-30-2021, 09:10 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: No to get too far off topic but who did you guys favor at QB in that 2011 draft?

I'll admit that I liked Ryan Mallett after seeing his pro day workouts.  :smirk:

Who you got?

Be honest.

I don't think anyone had a problem at the time with picking AJ Green in the 1st.

Draft specialist and most on the planet said he was a can't miss prospect.

Honestly I thought Dalton was the guy in the second. Not that I saw a ton of him at TCU, but I did watch that Rose Bowl where they beat Wisconsin. I really just remember really not wanting Cam Newton that year. I was glad we pulled out those last 2 "meaningless" wins to take us outta the running, and land us in the AJ or Julio zone.

[*jason*]

(12-31-2021, 02:52 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Yes. I do.

Yeah me too. I'll always pull for him and AJ so long as it doesn't interfere with our success. I honestly didn't hate it when the Cowboys beat us last year. We were done, and borderline unwatchable by that point anyway.

[fredtoast]

(12-31-2021, 02:58 PM)jason Wrote:  I really just remember really not wanting Cam Newton that year. 

I guaranteed the Cam would be a complete bust in the NFL.

He was a "one year wonder".

Lots of character issues going back to his Florida days.

All he did in college was make one read and then run the ball.

He was not even an elusive runner like Vick or Vince Young.  He was more of a power runner which would not be as successful against NFL men as college boys.

And that is why I am not a NFL scout. 

[Interceptor]

The ones I liked in the draft are no longer playing in the NFL: McElroy and The Kneeler

And that is why I am not an NFL scout

[*jason*]

(12-31-2021, 03:04 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I guaranteed the Cam would be a complete bust in the NFL.

He was a "one year wonder".

Lots of character issues going back to his Florida days.

All he did in college was make one read and then run the ball.

He was not even an elusive runner like Vick or Vince Young.  He was more of a power runner which would not be as successful against NFL men as college boys.

And that is why I am not a NFL scout. 

Oh I felt the same way. I totally disregarded the fact that he was an athletic LB playing quarterback. I still like the route that we went though. Kinda funny Dalton and Cam were the only QBs worth a damn (I'm excluding Kaepernick) to come from that draft, and they both peaked the same year. Honestly could've met in the Super Bowl had Dalton not gotten hurt. It feels absurd to just type that, but it's true.

[Housh]

I liked Andy didn’t love him.

I love Burrow


With that said Andy had more success as of right now than Burrow. I know it’s a technicality because Burrow is only 2 years in but we can’t crown him until he at least matches Andy’s 5 playoff appearances. And in like 2 of those appearances Andy play very well.


With all that said if Burrow comes out and wins one playoff game he’s already better than anything Andy did