Joey B vs Andy vibe

[fredtoast]

(01-01-2022, 03:37 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Dalton was a good QB for the Bengals from 2011-2016 but he was imminently replaceable.

No he was not.  Half of the league had QBs worse than Dalton.  If he was so easy to replace how come all of these other NFL teams did not have QBs as good as him?  Where were the Bengals supposed to find an upgrade when so many other teams were trying to do the same thing?

I don't know why so many fans have to keep trying to shit on Dalton with comments like this.

[*Awful Llama*]

(01-01-2022, 01:24 PM)George Cantstandya Wrote: The year is 2042.  Detroit Lions Super Bowl MVP Tom Brady announces that he will return for his record setting 42nd NFL season.  Meanwhile on The Bengals Board fans continue to argue about Andy Dalton.    

And whether team President/CEO Elizabeth Blackburn should build an indoor practice facility (she should!).  

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-01-2022, 03:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So how much credit does Burrow get for winning a Championship in college with the most talented roster in college football history?

Or how much credit does he get this year playing with the best trio of WRs in the league and the #2 RB in the league?

Why try to use an argument to discredit Dalton when it also discredits Burrow?  Why not give them BOTH credit for their accomplishments?

I think they both deserve equal credit for where the winning and losing teams are because a QB can't block for himself or tackle the opposing team (unless he turns it over of course).

Where the credit will eventually either turn in Burrows favor or not, will be when he plays well on a Sunday/Monday night (consistently) or in the playoffs--possibly leading to a win or more. 

Burrow hasn't done anyting more than Dalton has in the regular season yet. The fact that he's a better QB allows one to believe that he eventually should though. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-01-2022, 03:50 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No he was not.  Half of the league had QBs worse than Dalton.  If he was so easy to replace how come all of these other NFL teams did not have QBs as good as him?  Where were the Bengals supposed to find an upgrade when so many other teams were trying to do the same thing?

I don't know why so many fans have to keep trying to shit on Dalton with comments like this.

imminently

---

adverb
very soon; at any moment:




His average-at-best, most of the time, status meant he was replaceable. The Bengals never really tried because they probably believed he'd get them there at some point. They were wrong.

The second bolded part is getting real old. I've given Dalton credit many times and the disingenuous bullshit you continue to spew is getting old. I think it's getting close to time to ignore you because you have so much trouble with context, a real issue with comprehension and you continue to reply in a contrary manner that could be described as trollish. Between you and Vinyl, there also seems to be a deep-seeded sensitivity about anything remotely negative that's said about a QB that never won a playoff game for the Bengals. 

[Shake n Blake]

I don't know why people act like prime-time/playoff struggles were a Dalton exclusive.

Marvin Lewis was 9-31 in prime-time (.225)

He was 6-19 (.240) with Dalton.
He was 3-12 (.200) with other QBs (mostly Palmer)

No one says Palmer caused us to lose in PT. Just Andy, even though Dalton was actually slightly better in PT than everyone else who played under Marv.

Marv was 0-7 in the playoffs.
He was 0-4 with Dalton.
He was 0-3 with other QBs.

24-40-197-1-2 (60.1 rating)
18-36-146-1-1 (58.3 rating)
23-41-212-1-1 (68.3 rating)

If I didn't tell anyone, most people would think these were Dalton playoff games. So why do people pin blame on Dalton for not doing what nobody else was able to do? Is it because he had more cracks at it?

It just doesn't make sense. Every speck of evidence points squarely at Marvin Lewis being the problem. Dalton just dealt with it longer than the others.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-01-2022, 06:09 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I don't know why people act like prime-time/playoff struggles were a Dalton exclusive.

It's not. It was a complete failure but when did he ever play well in the playoffs? He did pretty good in thursday night games and a monday night or two. Sunday night against the Cardinals was a good game but he did miss that late throw for a TD to AJ and they had to settle for a FG. 

The other guys were just as culpable as Dalton. Palmer played like crap in his one full game and McCarron only hit one good pass late to give them a lead.

[SladeX]

(12-30-2021, 09:10 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: No to get too far off topic but who did you guys favor at QB in that 2011 draft?

I'll admit that I liked Ryan Mallett after seeing his pro day workouts.  

Who you got?

Be honest.

I don't think anyone had a problem at the time with picking AJ Green in the 1st.

Draft specialist and most on the planet said he was a can't miss prospect.

I wanted Mallet. But then I'm biased, being a Razorback fan. Maybe I'm part of the coveted 1% with SEC knowledge?

Geez guys. This is getting to be like the old joke about the Nursing Hone with numbered jokes. #1, ha ha ha. #17, not funny Fred, how many times we gotta tell ya. #15, ha. We could number our responses whenever Dalton comparisons thread comes up again. Save everyone time and trouble...

[TecmoBengals]

(01-01-2022, 09:28 PM)SladeX Wrote: I wanted Mallet. But then I'm biased, being a Razorback fan. Maybe I'm part of the coveted 1% with SEC knowledge?

Geez guys. This is getting to be like the old joke about the Nursing Hone with numbered jokes. #1, ha ha ha. #17, not funny Fred, how many times we gotta tell ya. #15, ha. We could number our responses whenever Dalton comparisons thread comes up again. Save everyone time and trouble...

 He 1000% knows he knows more than 99% of any of us. Facts and specific examples!

[BengalsRocker]

(01-01-2022, 09:28 PM)SladeX Wrote: I wanted Mallet. But then I'm biased, being a Razorback fan. Maybe I'm part of the coveted 1% with SEC knowledge?

Geez guys. This is getting to be like the old joke about the Nursing Hone with numbered jokes. #1, ha ha ha. #17, not funny Fred, how many times we gotta tell ya. #15, ha. We could number our responses whenever Dalton comparisons thread comes up again. Save everyone time and trouble...

Mallet had a big arm and showed some accuracy on deep balls in his pro-day.

Dude severely lacked it between the ears.

Glad I'm not picking draft day. 

I think Gruden dodged a bullet taking Dalton even if a bunch of the fan base shits on him.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-01-2022, 09:54 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Mallet had a big arm and showed some accuracy on deep balls in his pro-day.

Dude severely lacked it between the ears.

Glad I'm not picking draft day. 

I think Gruden dodged a bullet taking Dalton even if a bunch of the fan base shits on him.

omg. Here we go again...

Or maybe a few shit on him and most just call it for what it is. He was a good QB that couldn't perform well in the playoffs and never won a playoff game. 

[TecmoBengals]

(01-01-2022, 10:15 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: omg. Here we go again...

Or maybe a few shit on him and most just call it for what it is. He was a good QB that couldn't perform well in the playoffs and never won a playoff game. 

Which is perfectly normal to state without someone emotionally responding, "Why you hating on Dalton?" Dalton's career with the Bengals is over; it's easy to understand the historical perspective of what you've stated. He was good, had longevity, but didn't win a playoff game.

[BengalsRocker]

(01-01-2022, 10:15 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: omg. Here we go again...

Or maybe a few shit on him and most just call it for what it is. He was a good QB that couldn't perform well in the playoffs and never won a playoff game. 

I'm not gonna get into this too much.

I do have to say that quite a few of my off board Bengals fan friends trashed him on the regular.

Sorry but that's the world I actually know except the internet community.

Now get back to the point of that post.  Andy>Mallet and I was a Mallet fan.

The end.

[Shake n Blake]

(01-01-2022, 07:28 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: It's not. It was a complete failure but when did he ever play well in the playoffs? He did pretty good in thursday night games and a monday night or two. Sunday night against the Cardinals was a good game but he did miss that late throw for a TD to AJ and they had to settle for a FG. 

The other guys were just as culpable as Dalton. Palmer played like crap in his one full game and McCarron only hit one good pass late to give them a lead.

I don't blame any of the guys for the PT/playoff stuff.

Chad was bad. Gio was bad. Palmer was bad, etc. I don't call them playoff chokers. I just think Marvin's overly conservative ways made us predictable at times, and also greatly magnified our mistakes.

If Burrow throws 2 picks in a playoff game, I won't feel like we're toast. Sure, part of that is just that Burrow is better...but I also believe it's because Zac is aggressive and less predictable with his style of offense.

Our mistakes matter less, because we'll just let our weapons fly and go for it. I think Marv cuffed the offense and hoped the other team would make mistakes.

[Hammerstripes]

(01-01-2022, 03:46 PM)fredtoast Wrote: So how much credit does Burrow get for winning a Championship in college with the most talented roster in college football history?

Or how much credit does he get this year playing with the best trio of WRs in the league and the #2 RB in the league?

Why try to use an argument to discredit Dalton when it also discredits Burrow?  Why not give them BOTH credit for their accomplishments?

Not even close to being a true statement.

[Hammerstripes]

(12-28-2021, 11:06 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Just curious, but what exactly did Burrow accomplish in his first 4 years of college when he did not have an all-time record number of NFL draft picks starting around him?  *Hint* he was the 12th rated QB in the 14 team SEC his junior year.

And what did he do last year without elite talent around him?

Meanwhile Dalton also went undefeated his senior year and TCU finished ranked #2 in the nation despite Dalton only having 2 other NFL players on the entire team.

Hint - he was running an archaic running offense with that same talent as a junior.  When they finally installed a Pro-style passing system, guess what happened?  

The other thing to remember, is that Burrow didn't have an offseason with LSU prior to starting that first game vs. Miami (Fla.) he was still trying to figure out their names.

Dalton also played in the Big 12, so lets not pretend that the level of competition was even remotely the same.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(01-05-2022, 01:33 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: Hint - he was running an archaic running offense with that same talent as a junior.  When they finally installed a Pro-style passing system, guess what happened?  

The other thing to remember, is that Burrow didn't have an offseason with LSU prior to starting that first game vs. Miami (Fla.) he was still trying to figure out their names.

Dalton also played in the Big 12, so lets not pretend that the level of competition was even remotely the same.

Not entirely accurate: the LSU offense in 2018 was virtually IDENTICAL to the 2019 offense, save for about 25% (what I've read, it was actually probably less than 25%) of the route concepts, which Brady brought with him from the Saints.

Ensminger started to change that offense in 2017 (from Miles' archaic, POS offense. Complete fraud coach and a POS human being to boot) to what it became (what it still was, until this year) and in 2018, it just missed some of the vertical concepts that it had in 2019, but the core plays and design were untouched.

It's why Brennan absolutely balled out and a half in 2020 until he got hurt, without Brady, Burrow, Chase, Jefferson, Clyde, the majority of the oline, etc. and when Ensminger left this year from OC, the offense changed and fell off a cliff.

It's not as black and white as you and Fred are making it out to be, but there's a bit of truth (and falsity) to both of your ends of the discussion.

[fredtoast]

(01-01-2022, 04:10 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: His average-at-best, most of the time, status meant he was replaceable.

No it does not.  Average means half of the teams in the league had a worse QB.

So, like I asked you before, where do you get a replacement that good anytime you want when half of the teams in the league don't have one?

 

[Roland]

Some people misinterpret the Dalton line as "average." The Dalton line is not "average." The Dalton line is the threshold of "good enough." And that's right where Andy was.

[Sled21]

I was, and still am, a Dalton fan. He broke almost every Bengal QB record and brought us many winning seasons. But, he did not play well in the playoffs. Nor did the entire team. The Chargers game was the most complete shit the bed experience I have ever seen on a football field. That's on Marvin and his coaching staff.

[Clark W Griswold]

I am ok with the back and forth conversations about Dalton/Burrow but time to close this thread now that people are bringing up nightmares (playoffs vs SD and the 2 Texans playoff games) that have taken me years to block from my memory.