NFL COY Odds

[*PhilHos*]

(12-29-2021, 11:32 AM)Wyche Wrote: The only thing I see that could be considered underperforming would be the games where we've turned the ball over way too many times to win.

Not to mention that how players play is strictly on the coaching staff. Sometimes players do more/play better than what the coaches want/expect and sometimes they do less/play worse than what the coaches want/expect and sometimes they do exactly what the coaches want/expect.

If Burrow throws 3 straight INTs on back-to-back-to-back passes, then sure, you can say he's underperforming, but i don't see how that's necessarily Taylor's fault that Burrow "underperformed" on any/all of those plays.

[Tomkat]

(12-29-2021, 11:28 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Where exactly are we "underperforming"?

Closing out and winning games.  Sure, if you compare to last season, then yes, they've "overperformed" compared to last season.
But, again, I'm talking about this season, and this season only.   This team should be better than 9-6, you've seen it... I've seen it... we've all seen it.  Overperforming teams make the critical plays that turn losses into wins - they don't drop INT's near the end of regulation vs San Fran, etc.

Quote:It's the GameDay thread. The same place where people will declare a game over in the 1st QTR after a turnover or the season over in Game 1 after a bad play. So, if you're basis for "underperforming" is the GameDay thread then it's literally not worth the paper it's printed on.

My basis for quoting the GD threads (and elsewhere) is to show that I'm not totally alone or way off-base in claiming that they've underperformed to some extent.

[Tomkat]

(12-29-2021, 11:35 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Not to mention that how players play is strictly on the coaching staff. Sometimes players do more/play better than what the coaches want/expect and sometimes they do less/play worse than what the coaches want/expect and sometimes they do exactly what the coaches want/expect.

If Burrow throws 3 straight INTs on back-to-back-to-back passes, then sure, you can say he's underperforming, but i don't see how that's necessarily Taylor's fault that Burrow "underperformed" on any/all of those plays.

It's a team game.  Wins/Losses belong to both players and coaches.

[*PhilHos*]

(12-29-2021, 11:38 AM)Tomkat Wrote: Closing out and winning games.  Sure, if you compare to last season, then yes, they've "overperformed" compared to last season.
But, again, I'm talking about this season, and this season only.   This team should be better than 9-6, you've seen it... I've seen it... we've all seen it.  Overperforming teams make the critical plays that turn losses into wins - they don't drop INT's near the end of regulation vs San Fran, etc.

Just because there were a few games the Bengals "should" have won does not mean they "underperformed". By that metric, literally EVERY team in the NFL barring teams like the Jets and Lions and Jaguars have underperformed because EVERY team has lost games to teams that they should have beat.

(12-29-2021, 11:39 AM)Tomkat Wrote: It's a team game.  Wins/Losses belong to both players and coaches.

Yet, according to you the Bengals have underperformed because of Taylor. 

[sandwedge]

We came storming back in the San Fran and Chargers games to have a chance to win, when we either dropped passes or fumbled the ball away.

[Tomkat]

(12-29-2021, 11:44 AM)PhilHos Wrote: Yet, according to you the Bengals have underperformed because of Taylor. 

Taylor is part of the TEAM, yes?  Therefore, he shares some of the responsibility.
HOW MANY TIMES have you heard..."man, this team has come out flat - that's on the coaching" etc?

I'm not saying Zac is terrible, I just don't think he's COY worthy, that's all.  

[Tony]

It should be Taylor non question.. He was in the top 3 to be fired at the end of the year... Amazing what some wins and explosive offensive play will do for you.  Even here, there is 1 guy only saying fire Zac if no playoffs..  I'm sorry 9 wins is enough regardless if what happens in the future and the Stealer / Raven sweep beatdowns are the cherry on top.. This team is young,  let Zac finish the job. His presser after the last ravens game really sold me too. Talking about killer mentality.  You were never getting that kind of talk out of Marvin.

[TecmoBengals]

(12-29-2021, 12:14 PM)Tony Wrote: It should be Taylor non question.. He was in the top 3 to be fired at the end of the year... Amazing what some wins and explosive offensive play will do for you.  Even here, there is 1 guy only saying fire Zac if no playoffs..  I'm sorry 9 wins is enough regardless if what happens in the future and the Stealer / Raven sweep beatdowns are the cherry on top.. This team is young,  let Zac finish the job. His presser after the last ravens game really sold me too. Talking about killer mentality.  You were never getting that kind of talk out of Marvin.

There are other worthy coaches, but I think the biggest obstacle is he coaches for the Bengals. Similar to Burrow losing on the Pro Bowl to Lamar and a possible outcome of Dak getting come back player of the year over Burrow, some other coach might get it over Taylor.  I hope Taylor can bring home the award.

[*PhilHos*]

(12-29-2021, 12:11 PM)Tomkat Wrote: Taylor is part of the TEAM, yes?  Therefore, he shares some of the responsibility.

True, but you're first post in this thread contradicts this statement:

(12-28-2021, 06:00 PM)Tomkat Wrote: COY should really go to a coach who performed above expectations. With the talent on this team... Taylor has actually UNDERPERFORMED (Losing to the Jets, etc)

(12-29-2021, 12:11 PM)Tomkat Wrote: I'm not saying Zac is terrible, I just don't think he's COY worthy, that's all.  

Fair enough, but next time be consistent with your posts and don't contradict yourself. Otherwise, I'll have to claim you're underperforming here.

[*jason*]

(12-28-2021, 06:09 PM)bfine32 Wrote: And sweeping the ravens and Steelers.. We all expected that to happen

I'da took 9-6 headed into January.

[*Awful Llama*]

(12-29-2021, 12:29 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Fair enough, but next time be consistent with your posts and don't contradict yourself. Otherwise, I'll have to claim you're underperforming here.

[Soonerpeace]

Amazing this team after how far they’ve come is underperforming. They won what 5 games in two years. Now they should not lose a game . Amazing


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[Essex Johnson]

(12-29-2021, 12:11 PM)Tomkat Wrote: Taylor is part of the TEAM, yes?  Therefore, he shares some of the responsibility.
HOW MANY TIMES have you heard..."man, this team has come out flat - that's on the coaching" etc?

I'm not saying Zac is terrible, I just don't think he's COY worthy, that's all.  

Ok so you should have laid a much better argument so I will do mine for why he should be considered and maybe you give a substance rebuttal

1. 9 wins with a sweep of central powers ravens and Steelers
2. Leading the AFC north div
Took team from last with 4 wins to on pace for 10 at least which is ahead of any coy contender compared to their record last year.

[Tomkat]

(12-29-2021, 12:29 PM)PhilHos Wrote: True, but you're first post in this thread contradicts this statement:

Fair enough, but next time be consistent with your posts and don't contradict yourself. Otherwise, I'll have to claim you're underperforming here.

You're right.  That post does seem to contradict the others.  I'm just finding it difficult to articulate exactly what I mean.
Let me try again... we've ALL said/seen on these boards... "this team has so much more potential" - "how can they come out so flat?" - "they're playing down to their opponent," etc.  Those things are on coaching, yes?  Sure, there have been some great INDIVIDUAL player accomplishments, but TEAM wins (while way better than last year) COULD BE SO MUCH HIGHER.  If Zac had taken a bunch of no-name scrubs to 9-wins, then we wouldn't even be having this conversation.  However, with THIS TALENT ON THIS TEAM, it still FEELS like Taylor has underperformed.  Does that make any sense?

[Tomkat]

(12-29-2021, 03:22 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: ...Took team from last with 4 wins to on pace for 10 at least which is ahead of any coy contender compared to their record last year.

This is the only part of your argument that holds any weight.
As for the other parts... let's not pretend the Steelers and Ravens are as good as they used to be.  It's not like they have double-digit wins.

[TecmoBengals]

(12-30-2021, 12:39 AM)Tomkat Wrote: This is the only part of your argument that holds any weight.
As for the other parts... let's not pretend the Steelers and Ravens are as good as they used to be.  It's not like they have double-digit wins.

Most of the AFC teams have about the same record. The Chiefs and Titans are double digits for wins. The Jets, Jags, and Texans are at the bottom. That leaves a bunch of teams around the same record 7-8 to 9-6 (Ravens and Steelers included). Thus, I can't fault the Bengals or Zac for the AFC playing out as it has. 

[Essex Johnson]

(12-30-2021, 12:39 AM)Tomkat Wrote: This is the only part of your argument that holds any weight.
As for the other parts... let's not pretend the Steelers and Ravens are as good as they used to be.  It's not like they have double-digit wins.

And why might that be, hmm 25% of their losses are to the Bengals, we are a big reason they are not as successful as last year, thanks you helped my argument 

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-28-2021, 01:41 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: https://sportsbook.draftkings.com/leagues/football/88670561?category=awards&subcategory=coach-of-the-year&wpsrc=Organic%20Search&wpaffn=Google&wpkw=https%3A%2F%2Fsportsbook.draftkings.com%2Fleagues%2Ffootball%2F88670561%3Fcategory%3Dawards%26subcategory%3Dcoach-of-the-year&wpcn=leagues&wpscn=football%2F88670561

Glad the curmudgeon Bengal fans don’t vote. Taylor tied for third best odds. If he wins Sunday he jumps to co-favorite imo


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Let's see, LaFleur is the hands down favorite on a team that was in the NFC Championship Game last year.  Frank Reich I can see, but after the news of his QB not being vaxed and just got the bad news, I don't see him winning it either.

How is this lame ass award decided anyways?  If there is a coaches poll, ZT might have earned some extra points by crapping in Harbaugh's stocking last weekend.  

[Tomkat]

(12-30-2021, 09:37 AM)Essex Johnson Wrote: And why might that be, hmm 25% of their losses are to the Bengals, we are a big reason they are not as successful as last year, thanks you helped my argument 

I don't think it really helps your argument.  If they still had double digit wins DESPITE losing twice to the Bengals... THAT would help your argument.  As it stands now... the Steelers and Ravens have lost quite a few games to "average" teams, and the Bengals are but one of them.

[motoarch]

Ive been hesitant to give Taylor much credit but Im hard pressed to continue to do so. The biggest factor for me has been the penalties.

The Bengals continue to be the least penalized team in the league. That suggest to me Taylor is doing something right and I cant overlook that. Yeah we have talent all over the field and this team should be winning games no matter who coaches it but Taylors got them playing disciplined ball.

Yeah sometimes the play calling is questionable and its easy to say that from my couch. I didn't get the consecutive runs in OT against the 9ers but I don't get what Harbaugh is doing calling all these 2 point conversions either and he's proven to be one of the best coaches in the league so what do a I know.

Anyways I still on the fence about Taylor but maybe Im just being stubborn at this point.