Compromised OL Off season plan

[Australiabengalsfan]

(01-30-2022, 12:32 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: There are so many ways to be creative with the cap. You see teams sign guys for 4 years for 60 million, yet have a 10 million versus 15 million cap hit in year one.

My point is with creativity we could create more capp space in 2022 if we desired or we could do the straight up contracts and cap hits.

100%
I didn’t think they would do to their own impending free agents in 2023 but the only player coming up in 2023 are Bell and Pratt. They could definitely spread that cap. The window is wide open!!!!!!! It’s going to be a fun ride!

[pulses]

(01-14-2022, 01:46 PM)Clark W Griswold Wrote: I think Uzomah is fine at TE because it’s tough to justify spending $ or a high pick on a TE.
There just won’t be enough targets for him to be worth it.  You already have to feed the ball to 3 very good WRs and Mixon. I think a guy like Uzomah who can make plays when called on but doesn’t have to get a lot of targets is a good fit.
Now I would love to have a Andrews or a Kelce at TE but he would not put up his normal numbers here and thus be a bit of a waste of money to me.  Would rather see an OL in FA (and a couple in the draft)

Charlie Kolar 6'6 260 from Iowa St. I like him in 3 or 4.  Better than Sample for sure at TE. He had 62 for 756 and  6 TD;s this past year.

[SuperBowlBound!]

I read some good articles on developing NFL Offensive Lineman.
Here is a link to one of them.
https://www.denverpost.com/2017/04/21/broncos-offensive-line-nfl-draft/

It basically says Off Lineman is one of the most difficult positions to develop. It may take 3 years to reach full development. Our rookies have played a significant amount of snaps this year. here is where our Offensive Line currently stands.

Isiah Prince (24) 2019 - 6th round (Miami Dolphins) this is his 3rd year. Only played in 4 games with Miami.
Jonah Wiliams (24) 2019 - this technically his second year if you include his injury. He is getting better as the year plays on.
Hakeem Adeniji (24) - 2020 - 6th round pick finishing his second year - Jury still out on him.
Jackson Carmen (22) - 2021 - 2nd round pick in his Rookie Year
D'Ante Smith (23) - 2021 - 4th round pick in his Rookie Year
Trey Hill (22) - 2021 - 6th round pick in his Rookie Year
Fred Johnson (24) - 2019 Undrafted
Trey Hopkins (29) - 2014 Undrafted
Quinton Spain (30) - 2015 Undrafted
Riley Reiff (33) - 2012 - 1st round pick of Detorit Lions

Controlling the NFL salary cap is so crucial to NFL success. The Bengals will gamble and hope the young guys on this list will develop and therefore they will not bring in high priced free agents. At best I bet they only bring in 1 to help shore up this off line and draft another. I can see Fred Johnson not coming back and possibly Riley Reiff and Quinton Spain depending on how much they want. They will not overpay for those guys.
They will sign Jessie Bates, Uzomah and Ogunjobi to team friendly deals.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

I want James Daniels and Morgan Moses in FA while bringing back Quinton Spain.

I would love this OL next season...

LT - Jonah Williams - backup Carman/D'Ante/Adeniji
LG - Quinton Spain - D'Ante Smith
C - James Daniels - backup Hopkins - Hill
RG - Jackson Carman - Adeniji - D'Ante
RT - Morgan Moses - backup Carman/D'Ante/Adeniji

This of course changes if Pollack doesn't think Carman can learn to be the starting RG for us.

[Hammerstripes]

I just don't see us blowing $35 million on the O-line. I definitely don't see them bringing in a FA C. Maybe Daniels as an OG and he moves over next year, but I just don't see them cutting Hopkins.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-03-2022, 09:43 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I just don't see us blowing $35 million on the O-line.  I definitely don't see them bringing in a FA C.  Maybe Daniels as an OG and he moves over next year, but I just don't see them cutting Hopkins.

Is Hop that expensive to keep as a backup Center?

Having James Daniels at RG would definitely be an option if Hop kept the Center job.

I just think we need an upgrade at Center to go along with the right side of the line. 

I expect Carman to improve big time in his 2nd year playing at RG.

Wondering what is your solution? I don't find it to be blowing money by fixing our main weakness.

[Luvnit2]

(02-04-2022, 03:37 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Is Hop that expensive to keep as a backup Center?

Having James Daniels at RG would definitely be an option if Hop kept the Center job.

I just think we need an upgrade at Center to go along with the right side of the line. 

I expect Carman to improve big time in his 2nd year playing at RG.

Wondering what is your solution? I don't find it to be blowing money by fixing our main weakness.

I think Hopkins is a 7.1 million cap hit , but 1.1 in dead cap so would save 6 million if we did cut him for an upgrade in FA

[Luvnit2]

(02-03-2022, 09:43 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I just don't see us blowing $35 million on the O-line.  I definitely don't see them bringing in a FA C.  Maybe Daniels as an OG and he moves over next year, but I just don't see them cutting Hopkins.

35 million, but if we cut Hopkins it becomes 29 million new cap money

But, I also don't think Hopkins is going anywhere, but Hopkins is way too expensive if he is a projected back up center at 7.1 million

[Hammerstripes]

(02-05-2022, 02:27 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: 35 million, but if we cut Hopkins it becomes 29 million new cap money

But, I also don't think Hopkins is going anywhere, but Hopkins is way too expensive if he is a projected back up center at 7.1 million

I really worry about making massive changes to the O-line.  It's a recipe for disaster.  You can win with Hopkins when he's healthy.  Give me a RG/RT and add another in the draft and I think that's going to be enough - or give me 2 Awuzie type free agents to fill RG and RT or a vet with a year or so left.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-05-2022, 02:22 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I think Hopkins is a 7.1 million cap hit , but 1.1 in dead cap so would save 6 million if we did cut him for an upgrade in FA

Thanks Luvnit. Cutting Hop is definitely in the cards then if we can find an upgrade.

(02-05-2022, 02:27 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: 35 million, but if we cut Hopkins it becomes 29 million new cap money

But, I also don't think Hopkins is going anywhere, but Hopkins is way too expensive if he is a projected back up center at 7.1 million

Yes, too expensive as a backup, so he is the starter or cut.

(02-05-2022, 04:57 PM)Hammerstripes Wrote: I really worry about making massive changes to the O-line.  It's a recipe for disaster.  You can win with Hopkins when he's healthy.  Give me a RG/RT and add another in the draft and I think that's going to be enough - or give me 2 Awuzie type free agents to fill RG and RT or a vet with a year or so left.

Why? We would have the entire Offseason to improve the biggest weakness on the team, the right side of the OL.

We will have to pay for the improvement. James Daniels and Morgan Moses would be Awuzie type FA's to me.

Jonah, Spain, Hopkins, Daniels, Moses

With Carman backing up on his rookie deal sounds great to me.

[phil413]

I didn't want to revisit this before the super bowl. On to making changes. I have no issues replacing backups that were not planned to start. I'm not a fan of penciling in pick 31 as a starter. Sign a FA improvement at RG or RT and a vet at the other. Corner should get priority with a high pick but take a lesser player to fit a need.

[lone bengal]

We can't wait for draft picks to pan out we need to sign proven free agent linemen. I think Spain can be resigned to a reasonable deal. My fear is they sign Spain and won't want to pay a RG big money because they just drafted Carman. Carman has never played guard before cant risk hoping he pans out. Scherff would be my top priority but will command big money after him there's Norwell. Far as RT goes Trenton Brown looks to be the top option. The Chiefs at worst tag Orlando Brown there not letting him leave. Got a bunch of older left tackles but we got Williams. Cam Robison is a young tackle who is interesting played LT with the Jags not sure if he can play RT. Far as center goes my gut feeing is they stick with Hopkins or draft someone.

LT - Williams (fine with him )
LG - Resign Spain
C- Hopkins ( all for an upgrade/ Linderbaum in draft if there )
RG- Scherff/ Norwell
RT - Trenton Brown - If we just sign Scherff or just Brown Carmen Jackson can compete for an open don't see why he can't play tackle in the NFL

[Shouldamapads]

(02-14-2022, 11:20 AM)lone bengal Wrote: We can't wait for draft picks to pan out we need to sign proven free agent linemen. I think Spain can be resigned to a reasonable deal. My fear is they sign Spain and won't want to pay a RG big money because they just drafted Carman. Carman has never played guard before cant risk hoping he pans out. Scherff would be my top priority but will command big money after him there's Norwell. Far as RT goes Trenton Brown looks to be the top option. The Chiefs at worst tag Orlando Brown there not letting him leave. Got a bunch of older left tackles but we got Williams. Cam Robison is a young tackle who is interesting played LT with the Jags not sure if he can play RT. Far as center goes my gut feeing is they stick with Hopkins or draft someone.

LT - Williams (fine with him )
LG - Resign Spain
C- Hopkins ( all for an upgrade/ Linderbaum in draft if there )
RG- Scherff/ Norwell
RT - Trenton Brown - If we just sign Scherff or just Brown Carmen Jackson can compete for an open don't see why he can't play tackle in the NFL

Carman is playing Guard though.  He played it most of the season.  He was drafted for that position.

[lone bengal]

(02-14-2022, 04:49 PM)Shouldamapads Wrote: Carman is playing Guard though.  He played it most of the season.  He was drafted for that position.

Understand just meant if Spain was resigned and we upgraded at RG Carman would probably be in a backup role and maybe could kick out to RT if needed. He played tackle at a high level in college. We haven’t had a versatile guard / tackle in a while, Clint Boling could do both same with Whitworth, it gives a team flexibility.

[Nati#1]

We need to break the bank on 2 o lineman in FA and then draft a top lineman ..then a cornerback

[pulses]

(02-14-2022, 09:18 PM)Nati#1 Wrote: We need to break the bank on 2 o lineman in FA and then draft a top lineman ..then a cornerback

Not worth it to spend 15-20 mill a yr on guys 30+   I would look for upgrades that are still team friendly deals. They may even be able to trade for an OL as well. Guys are gonna wanna come play with Joey B now.

[BuildTheWall]

Hopkins is overrated by virtue of not sucking as much as the other guys around him. It's true. What if I told you Bodine had better PFF scores than Hopkins?
Andrew Norwell is target number one. Supposedly he wants to come here. Re-sign Spain, but put him on the right side (he can play both sides, Norwell is pretty much LG-only). Since the Ratbirds look like they're letting Bozeman test FA, get him, and weaken the enemy. Finally, as the blockbuster, trade 31 this year, 64 next year (hehe), and Carman for Ryan Ramczyk. Take advantage of the Saints' dire cap situation and get a proven stud. Given his contract's structure, they gain $7.8M in precious cap space this year (albeit with sizeable dead money), and clear his deal off the books (can help ease their restructures). Swing for the fences move.

LT: Jonah
LG: Norwell ($21M/3yr)
C: Bozeman ($32M/4yr)
RG: Spain ($2.5M/1 year)
RT: Ramczyk ($19.2M cap hit)

Backups: D'Ante Smith, draft pick, draft pick, and Hill/Sutherland. Draft two guys in the mid-late rounds to serve as depth/developmental pieces. We need reliable veterans.

$36.7M total cap space for the four, $30.7M net drop in space (factoring in Hopkins cut).
Show Fred Johnson, Adeniji, and Prince the door.

Doubt it happens, but let me dream.

[Bengal Dude]

For those of you who follow Malik Wright on Twitter, he nailed the Bengals free agency last year. He broke the Apple news before anyone else. He's definitely got some insight into the team.

I say all that because he's mentioned recently that the Bengals will be looking at Orlando Brown from Kansas City. 

[Bengalbug]

(02-14-2022, 09:38 PM)pulses Wrote: Not worth it to spend 15-20 mill a yr on guys 30+   I would look for upgrades that are still team friendly deals. They may even be able to trade for an OL as well. Guys are gonna wanna come play with Joey B now.

I disagree. This team is an OL away, from winning it all. You don’t hold back and continue to look 2-3 years down the road. At some point you need to move your chips in, and it should be before burrow is making 50m/year.

[samhain]

(02-15-2022, 01:58 AM)BuildTheWall Wrote: Hopkins is overrated by virtue of not sucking as much as the other guys around him. It's true. What if I told you Bodine had better PFF scores than Hopkins?
Andrew Norwell is target number one. Supposedly he wants to come here. Re-sign Spain, but put him on the right side (he can play both sides, Norwell is pretty much LG-only). Since the Ratbirds look like they're letting Bozeman test FA, get him, and weaken the enemy. Finally, as the blockbuster, trade 31 this year, 64 next year (hehe), and Carman for Ryan Ramczyk. Take advantage of the Saints' dire cap situation and get a proven stud. Given his contract's structure, they gain $7.8M in precious cap space this year (albeit with sizeable dead money), and clear his deal off the books (can help ease their restructures). Swing for the fences move.

LT: Jonah
LG: Norwell ($21M/3yr)
C: Bozeman ($32M/4yr)
RG: Spain ($2.5M/1 year)
RT: Ramczyk ($19.2M cap hit)

Backups: D'Ante Smith, draft pick, draft pick, and Hill/Sutherland. Draft two guys in the mid-late rounds to serve as depth/developmental pieces. We need reliable veterans.

$36.7M total cap space for the four, $30.7M net drop in space (factoring in Hopkins cut).
Show Fred Johnson, Adeniji, and Prince the door.

Doubt it happens, but let me dream.

A lot of moving parts here, but not a terrible plan.  

My main criticism would be Spain to RG.  He played some RG in 2020 and did not seem to do as well as he did when at LG this season.  LG has been his primary spot throughout his career.  It's possible that he did better in 21 due to being with the team at the start of camp and having more time to settle in, but I feel better with him on the left side.