Rosenthal - QB Index

[fredtoast]

Burrow had issues last year. He held the ball too long and he struggled with the deep ball. Most people here agreed that he would continue to improve. But the people who claim it was obvious have been wrong about other player projections before (including what many of them predicted Joe would do his rookie season). Throw in the fact that Burrow was a one year wonder in college and played on a team with a record number of NFL draft picks and it is understandable why some people did not have him ranked as elite coming into this season.

[TecmoBengals]

(01-06-2022, 10:01 AM)motoarch Wrote: https://www.nfl.com/news/qb-index-week-1-ranking-all-32-starters-entering-2021-nfl-season

https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-qb-index-week-18-2021-season-rankings

I spend a lot of time around here saying I don't care what the media says about our team and telling others not to let it bother them.

Did a lot of that during the ML years.

Truth is I read this stuff too and it gets under my skin sometimes.  I was pissed when I saw Burrow ranked under a butch of guys that never took an NFL snap at the beginning of the season.

Someone on here argued Burrows stats from last year weren't that good and we were over rating him.  

Anyone that watched him play last year knew he was special.  Maybe the numbers weren't there but the effort and the heart were.  Anyone that watched knew the numbers would come and greatness was going happen.  

Looks like the media finally figured out.  And they're surprised.  They shouldn't be.  Anyone that watched him already knew.

I think it's just lazy journalism and an easy take for media members. We know the drill: no playoff win in 30 years, the Bungles, etc., etc. It's just an easy take to knock the Bengals. I think it's lame, but I agree we don't need to worry about it.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-06-2022, 12:13 PM)Chip Smallwood Wrote: Lamar should withdraw from the pro-bowl on principle. It should be some 3 QB combination of Burrow, Mahomes, Allen, and Herbert, with the 4th one being the AFC SB representative. 

Lamar Jackson being in there is a joke. 

When you add his rushing contributions, he's usually up there with the other guys, but as a pure passer, he is behind.
Combined passing and rushing, he has 3649 yards with 18 TDs and 13 INTs in 12 games.

If he had been able to play a few more games this year like the other guys, he'd probably be ~4500 total yards.

Burrow still should be in over Jackson, but unfortunately the voting is done well before the season ends, and Burrow's tear has been after the voting concluded.
To be honest, it's kind of baffling that the voting is so early given the Pro Bowl doesn't happen for another 4 weeks or so.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(01-06-2022, 12:23 PM)ochocincos Wrote: When you add his rushing contributions, he's usually up there with the other guys, but as a pure passer, he is behind.
Combined passing and rushing, he has 3649 yards with 18 TDs and 13 INTs in 12 games.

If he had been able to play a few more games this year like the other guys, he'd probably be ~4500 total yards.

Burrow still should be in over Jackson, but unfortunately the voting is done well before the season ends, and Burrow's tear has been after the voting concluded.
To be honest, it's kind of baffling that the voting is so early given the Pro Bowl doesn't happen for another 4 weeks or so.

I'm ok with them adding in the rushing stats, but if they're going to do that, then why is Josh Allen on the outside looking in? He has 700 rush yards vs. Lamar's 767, and 6 rushing TDs vs. Lamar's 2, and his passing stats are astronomically better.

It's really not that I have a problem with Lamar Jackson, he's just not as deserving as the 4 big great - elite QBs in the conference this year. 

[*ochocincos*]

(01-06-2022, 12:52 PM)Chip Smallwood Wrote: I'm ok with them adding in the rushing stats, but if they're going to do that, then why is Josh Allen on the outside looking in? He has 700 rush yards vs. Lamar's 767, and 6 rushing TDs vs. Lamar's 2, and his passing stats are astronomically better.

It's really not that I have a problem with Lamar Jackson, he's just not as deserving as the 4 big great - elite QBs in the conference this year. 

As we all know, it's also fan base popularity.
Baltimore is a bigger market than Buffalo.

Another is you have to remember where they were at the time of voting.
Jackson has played in 4 fewer games than Allen.
If we just take away the past 3 games of Allen plus week 11 (the games that Jackson hasn't played), here are Allen's stats.

7-5 record
3315 passing yards
22 passing TDs
513 rushing yards
4 rushing TDs

Compare that to Jackson:
7-5 record
2882 passing yards
16 pass TDs
767 rush yards
2 rush TDs

The difference is just +179 total yards but +8 TDs.
Allen and Jackson both have about the same completion percentage on the season, so there's not that much difference there.

Allen probably should have gotten in over Jackson, but given they were relatively close by comparison at the time, I think the popularity won out.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

To be fair He was coming off a horrific knee injury. Fair to question if he would ever be same player.

[*Synric*]

(01-06-2022, 12:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Burrow had issues last year. He held the ball too long and he struggled with the deep ball. Most people here agreed that he would continue to improve. But the people who claim it was obvious have been wrong about other player projections before (including what many of them predicted Joe would do his rookie season). Throw in the fact that Burrow was a one year wonder in college and played on a team with a record number of NFL draft picks and it is understandable why some people did not have him ranked as elite coming into this season.

AJ Green was a big contributor to that poor deep passing score in 2020. 

[Stewy]

(01-06-2022, 12:16 PM)pally Wrote: I just want Rosenthal admit that he was never so wrong with his evaluation of a QB

I just want Joe to keep being Joe and don't want him to give two shits about what some biased media idiot thinks.  

And as a fan, I know one thing for sure, the only media worth listening to are the local media.  They are the only ones seeing the games and watching the tape.  National media who are evaluating the entire league do not have the time or inclination to actually evaluate players.  Then there are media losers like SAS that spend less than 5 minutes actually evaluating sports before they give their take.  National media are just looking for clicks.  Period.  As long as you click they don't care if you're upset and they're never going to apologize.  

As Cowterd says "If you're happy with my take you'll listen to me, but if you're angry with my take you'll listen more to call me an idiot.  I like angry fans better."

So be angry......you're just giving them what they want......attention and money.

(01-06-2022, 12:19 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I think it's just lazy journalism and an easy take for media members. We know the drill: no playoff win in 30 years, the Bungles, etc., etc. It's just an easy take to knock the Bengals. I think it's lame, but I agree we don't need to worry about it.

Someone who gets it.

[*michaelsean*]

26th was a bit ridiculous even taking into account everything the guy said.

[grampahol]

(01-06-2022, 10:48 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Raw interceptions don’t tell you much, INT % is a more accurate metric to build opinions off of. How many interceptions are they throwing in relation to how many passes they are throwing? Burrows INT% was at point bottom three in the league, but he’s doing a great job now.

It also omits the INTs caused solely by a receiver or Olineman. Not all INTs are created equally, but they all go in the stat sheet equally.. 

As far as national media..they are not all created equally either. Example, Boomer is part of national media, so is Wilcots, Colinsworth, etc.. Plenty of decent people in the field, but the bozo's are the squeaky wheels and get all the grease .. Goes with the territory I guess..  

[fredtoast]

(01-06-2022, 02:01 PM)Synric Wrote: AJ Green was a big contributor to that poor deep passing score in 2020. 

I will not defend Green's play in 2019, but he really was not a big part of the problem.  Burrow was just not that accurate with the deep ball last year.  

Obviously any QB would see an improvement in his numbers if you replace one of the worst WRs in the league (last year) with one of the best. But I don't want to get back in that "he's only good with elite talent around him" argument.

Joe has still underthrown Ja'Marr a few times, but the difference in his deep ball accuracy from last year is night and day.

[Shake n Blake]

No surprise that Gregg Rosenthal - the notorious Bengals hater who constantly bashed the team when he was with PFT and created "the Dalton line" when many mediocre QBs could've been used - had Burrow ranked 26th heading into the season.

Behind the likes of Ryan Fitzpatrick, Daniel Jones, Tua, Lawrence, Zach Wilson, Jameis Winston, Jimmy G and other mediocre QBs.

He's only praising Burrow now because he'd look silly if he didn't.