Top 10 highest graded Bengals for the season

[KillerGoose]

(01-12-2022, 12:04 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I think people want this when they narrow in on wanting to be right about their opinion. I like the subjectivity of hot takes in sports and having the impromptu discussions with friends or you fine people on this forum about which players are best. I appreciate both the statistical takes and the emotional views people bring to such debate.

What your post reveals though, which is good to make note of, is that it is hard to bring objectivity to subjective conversations.

Random, but I like when you post stats and also make an effort to explain your argument. I think too many posters just post a random stat with a mic drop thinking they enlightened the Bengals community. You actually know how to develop your opinions with support. Props to you dude.

The subjectivity definitely makes it fun. I tend to be more numbers oriented and enjoy trying to find an objective answer to some of the common debates that us fans have but sometimes just going all in without any data biases is really fun as well. The whole thing about sports is that they are supposed to be fun. If everything was black and white all of the time, it wouldn't be as enjoyable.

And thanks man, I really appreciate that. I try to make sure my opinions are guided by something concrete and if they're not, always open to correction. 

[*ochocincos*]

(01-12-2022, 12:41 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: Yea, I'm not dismissing people can have a rationale conversation supporting their opinions with information such as PFF. I also think online communities foster an environment where people want to be right; keyboard warriors are abundant. Hell, people here directly state it their posts from time to time: "I am right" when discussing an opinion. My post wasn't meant to ignore or dismiss other views such as what you're offering.

What I really dislike in arguments is when people say, "Just watch the tape, you'll see" as if the tape is easily available for everyone.
Not everyone has that access nor is able to watch the games that closely live.

[TecmoBengals]

(01-12-2022, 12:49 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: The subjectivity definitely makes it fun. I tend to be more numbers oriented and enjoy trying to find an objective answer to some of the common debates that us fans have but sometimes just going all in without any data biases is really fun as well. The whole thing about sports is that they are supposed to be fun. If everything was black and white all of the time, it wouldn't be as enjoyable.

And thanks man, I really appreciate that. I try to make sure my opinions are guided by something concrete and if they're not, always open to correction. 

You excel at your attempt to find an objective answer, it's noticed and appreciated!

[TecmoBengals]

(01-12-2022, 12:51 PM)ochocincos Wrote: What I really dislike in arguments is when people say, "Just watch the tape, you'll see" as if the tape is easily available for everyone.
Not everyone has that access nor is able to watch the games that closely live.

A presupposition would also then have to exist that the person watching the tape would actually know what they are watching. I've watched football for a long time and I still tunnel my viewing to seeing where the ball is going. I'm not watching an OL block, for example. If I narrowed my viewing to an OL's game by watching the tape, I'm befuddled to offer anything valuable.

[*ochocincos*]

(01-12-2022, 12:57 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: A presupposition would also then have to exist that the person watching the tape would actually know what they are watching. I've watched football for a long time and I still tunnel my viewing to seeing where the ball is going. I'm not watching an OL block, for example. If I narrowed my viewing to an OL's game by watching the tape, I'm befuddled to offer anything valuable.

Agreed.
And even if you were watching an OL on a snap, you probably need to rewatch that play multiple times to really get a good sense of what happened.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-12-2022, 11:40 AM)KillerGoose Wrote: Yeah, Cinci ran the same play to open up the game against Jacksonville in week four. I cut the GIF off for sizing, but it was a 33 yard gain. 

 

How on earth you remembered that is beyond me....lol. Yep, plain as day, they expect the DT to bite on the fake. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-12-2022, 01:08 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Agreed.
And even if you were watching an OL on a snap, you probably need to rewatch that play multiple times to really get a good sense of what happened.

Hell, I had to watch the gif multiple times.

[Shake n Blake]

Why did Higgins grade out higher than Chase?

1. People underestimate the season Tee just had. He finished 8th in yards/game and 11th in YPC among those with 50+ catches.

2. Chase had more production, but more drops, more games where he disappeared, etc.

[KillerGoose]

(01-12-2022, 09:22 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Why did Higgins grade out higher than Chase?

1. People underestimate the season Tee just had. He finished 8th in yards/game and 11th in YPC among those with 50+ catches.

2. Chase had more production, but more drops, more games where he disappeared, etc.

I think your second point might be a very important one. If I remember correctly, PFF values consistency fairly heavily and their final grade formula. Chase had higher highs than Higgins did, but Higgins seem to remain more consistent over the course of the season.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-12-2022, 09:22 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Why did Higgins grade out higher than Chase?

1. People underestimate the season Tee just had. He finished 8th in yards/game and 11th in YPC among those with 50+ catches.

2. Chase had more production, but more drops, more games where he disappeared, etc.

(01-12-2022, 10:06 PM)KillerGoose Wrote: I think your second point might be a very important one. If I remember correctly, PFF values consistency fairly heavily and their final grade formula. Chase had higher highs than Higgins did, but Higgins seem to remain more consistent over the course of the season.

Not sure I agree with the bolded part of point #2. Tee did have a pretty slow start (granted some of it might have been injury but when can only go off what we saw).

Here are his early season numbers:

4 rec 58 yds 1 TD
6 rec 60 yds 1TD
5 rec 32 yds 0 TD
3 rec 44 yds 0 TD
7 rec 62 yds 0 TD
4 rec 97 yds 0 TD
6 rec 78 yds 0 TD
2 rec 15 yds 0 TD

It wasn’t until the 2nd Steelers game that he really broke out and started putting up monster numbers.

This is the great thing about having 2 guys capable of being #1’s though. Chase carried us early on and then got hot again at the end, and Tee stepped up during the stretch where Chase cooled off.

[Frank Booth]

(01-12-2022, 11:06 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Not sure I agree with the bolded part of point #2. Tee did have a pretty slow start (granted some of it might have been injury but when can only go off what we saw).

Here are his early season numbers:

4 rec 58 yds 1 TD
6 rec 60 yds 1TD
5 rec 32 yds 0 TD
3 rec 44 yds 0 TD
7 rec 62 yds 0 TD
4 rec 97 yds 0 TD
6 rec 78 yds 0 TD
2 rec 15 yds 0 TD

It wasn’t until the 2nd Steelers game that he really broke out and started putting up monster numbers.

This is the great thing about having 2 guys capable of being #1’s though. Chase carried us early on and then got hot again at the end, and Tee stepped up during the stretch where Chase cooled off.

that 3 game stretch is fantastic wr2 numbers

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-12-2022, 11:40 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: that 3 game stretch is fantastic wr2 numbers

Sure, but this “debate” is about Tee grading out higher than Chase. Not how amazing he is for a #2.

[007BengalsFan]

Fred Johnson actually rated out higher than Jonah at an 81 PFF but of course he played far less snaps so you cant really compare the two. Just thought it was interesting

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/fred-johnson/46951

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-12-2022, 11:52 PM)007BengalsFan Wrote: Fred Johnson actually rated out higher than Jonah at an 81 PFF but of course he played far less snaps so you cant really compare the two. Just thought it was interesting

https://www.pff.com/nfl/players/fred-johnson/46951

90 snaps. Yeah, I’d call that far less lol.

I am curious why the coaches seem to like Prince better though.

[Whatever]

(01-12-2022, 11:40 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: that 3 game stretch is fantastic wr2 numbers

The first highlighted game is actually pretty misleading.  Higgins was targeted 15 times that game for only 7 catches and 62 yards.  That performance was actually more akin to Chase's poor 13 targets for 6 catches and 49 yards against the Browns.  

[fredtoast]

(01-10-2022, 10:45 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

Highest-graded Bengals in the regular season:

1: J. Burrow - 91.7
2: T. Higgins - 84.5
3: C. Awuzie - 83.4
4: J. Chase - 83.1
5: D. Reader - 80.9
6: J. Mixon - 79.5
7: J. Williams - 77.9
8: V. Bell - 74.3
T9: Hendrickson/Hilton - 72.4

All are under contract in 2022-23.

— Andrew Russell (@PFF_AndrewR) January 10, 2022

What was Hubbards final grade?

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-13-2022, 10:29 AM)fredtoast Wrote: What was Hubbards final grade?

64.3

Btw anyone can just look up their overall grades. You don’t need a subscription.

[Sled21]

(01-12-2022, 11:54 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: 90 snaps. Yeah, I’d call that far less lol.

I am curious why the coaches seem to like Prince better though.

I am too. The latest article I read had the coaches talking about Prince's quick footwork and how that helps with speed rushers, and about his strength moving linemen in the run game. Sorry, I just don't see it, to me Fred looks better. But, I'm not a line coach nor did I ever play oline.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-13-2022, 10:37 AM)Sled21 Wrote: I am too. The latest article I read had the coaches talking about Prince's quick footwork and how that helps with speed rushers, and about his strength moving linemen in the run game. Sorry, I just don't see it, to me Fred looks better. But, I'm not a line coach nor did I ever play oline.

I would also personally start Carman over Adeniji at RG, but Frank Pollack has forgotten more about OL play than I’ll ever know, so I’m sure he has his reasons.

[fredtoast]

(01-13-2022, 10:35 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: 64.3

Btw anyone can just look up their overall grades. You don’t need a subscription.

Must have been so low because of his poor punt return grade.