While the iron is hot.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-13-2022, 06:43 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Big Spain is a classic example of a player looking to prove himself for a long term deal.

Yes, good example. 

[StoneTheCrow]

(01-13-2022, 10:41 AM)Sled21 Wrote: This is one of the stupidest arguments I have read on this board.....

It has all the fixins to be a classic.

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-13-2022, 10:41 AM)Sled21 Wrote: This is one of the stupidest arguments I have read on this board.....

It is and it's very sad and unfortunate.

[fredtoast]

(01-13-2022, 04:28 PM)BFritz21 Wrote: When did I say I'm taking it for granted? Post quotes with links, not out of context quotes.

Right here.

(01-11-2022, 07:06 PM)BFritz21 Wrote:

We're young and will be able to attract free agents, as well as build with picks in the draft!

We're in good shape!

Just to re-cap here is what happened.

1.  I express concern that some fans and players do not appreciate the fact that this could be our last chance to win it all for a while.  I say we need more of a sense of urgency and desperation.

2.  Not only did you disagree with me, but you actually mocked my opinion.  You assured me that this team will be just as good or maybe even better for years to some. You even suggest that it is so absurd to think this could be our final chance that you accuse me of having some other unknown motive for making this thread.

3.  Now you have done a complete 180 and are trying to argue that EVERYONE AGREES WITH ME.  That EVERYONE knows this could be our last chance.  That EVERYONE has a sense of urgency.  That NO ONE is taking this chance for granted.

This is the most insane argument I have ever had here. It is like some people here are more interested in disagreeing with me than addressing the point I am trying to make.  It is impossible to say both of the following are true at the same time

1.  We have to have a sense of urgency because this could be our last chance in a while.

2.  I know this will NOT be our last chance in a while because "We are in good shape" to win for years to come. 

As soon as you insist that we will be good for years to come that NEGATES the sense of urgency over this possibly being our last chance in a while. 

[BFritz21]

(01-14-2022, 07:46 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Right here.




Just to re-cap here is what happened.

1.  I express concern that some fans and players do not appreciate the fact that this could be our last chance to win it all for a while.  I say we need more of a sense of urgency and desperation.

2.  Not only did you disagree with me, but you actually mocked my opinion.  You assured me that this team will be just as good or maybe even better for years to some. You even suggest that it is so absurd to think this could be our final chance that you accuse me of having some other unknown motive for making this thread.

3.  Now you have done a complete 180 and are trying to argue that EVERYONE AGREES WITH ME.  That EVERYONE knows this could be our last chance.  That EVERYONE has a sense of urgency.  That NO ONE is taking this chance for granted.

This is the most insane argument I have ever had here. It is like some people here are more interested in disagreeing with me than addressing the point I am trying to make.  It is impossible to say both of the following are true at the same time

1.  We have to have a sense of urgency because this could be our last chance in a while.

2.  I know this will NOT be our last chance in a while because "We are in good shape" to win for years to come. 

As soon as you insist that we will be good for years to come that NEGATES the sense of urgency over this possibly being our last chance in a while. 

You're so full of shit THAT it's ridiculous to even try to have a debate with you.

It's possible that no one is taking it for granted but also able to acknowledge that the future will be better, especially with the success that is likely coming.

It's called being optimistic and isn't too far-fetched of an idea considering that we're favorites in this game.

That's what successful people do: we're focused on now but we also keep one eye on the future.

We've built a solid foundation and have the weapons to keep improving the team and build the roster, which is what successful franchises do.

The players and fans are pumped that this is the biggest game in Cincinnati six years and we're all just ready for tomorrow. 

NO ONE IS TAKING IT FOR GRANTED

[BFritz21]

(01-14-2022, 07:46 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Right here.

There's also a reason why you never post the links to the exact posts/threads with those quotes and that's so people can't put them in context.

[BFritz21]

(01-14-2022, 07:46 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Right here.

I just looked at that post you quoted and I specifically say that, even though I said those things, NO ONE IS TAKING IT FOR GRANTED AND WE'RE ALL JUST FOCUSED ON TOMORROW!


Typical Fred! Post things out of context and then act like we're all too stupid to see!

[Sled21]

Quote:We're young and will be able to attract free agents, as well as build with picks in the draft!

We're in good shape!

Just so I can keep up with this lunacy, which part of that statement is incorrect? Are you expecting our next draft and FA period to make us worse? Our QB is under contract for multiple years, as are all our receivers and our #1 Running Back. CJ would probably pay the Browns to stay on this team he's having so much fun. On defense, Hubbard, Hendrickson, Reader are all under multi year deals, we just need to resign Ogunjobi and Hill. We're getting Ossai back. The only real if in the backfield is if we make a long term deal with Bates. And we have the most cap space in the league. You have to be a hugely pessimistic person to not believe we are in pretty damned good shape going forward. That, or you're just being argumentative because you don't like the coach. And acknowledging the fact we are in good shape going forward does in no way shape or form equate to not enjoying this season or taking anything for granted. Nothing in life is ever a given, hell the Bengals plane could crash heading to the AFC Championship Game. But it probably won't, and we'll probably have a better O-line next year which will make us a better team than we are this year.

[fredtoast]

(01-14-2022, 08:35 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: It's possible that no one is taking it for granted but also able to acknowledge that the future will be better, especially with the success that is likely coming.

No, it is not possible.

Saying that we will be just as good if not better in the next few years is the EXACT DEFINITION of "taking for granted".  You believe (take it) as being true (granted) that this is NOT our last chance in a while.  And if you take that for granted then you would not feel the desperation and urgency that I do.

The ONLY way you can prove that you are not taking it for granted is by saying "This could be our last chance in a long time.  So we have to win now."  Otherwise you are taking it for granted that we will have other chances in the next few years.

[BFritz21]

(01-14-2022, 09:12 AM)Sled21 Wrote: Just so I can keep up with this lunacy, which part of that statement is incorrect? Are you expecting our next draft and FA period to make us worse? Our QB is under contract for multiple years, as are all our receivers and our #1 Running Back. CJ would probably pay the Browns to stay on this team he's having so much fun. On defense, Hubbard, Hendrickson, Reader are all under multi year deals, we just need to resign Ogunjobi and Hill. We're getting Ossai back. The only real if in the backfield is if we make a long term deal with Bates. And we have the most cap space in the league. You have to be a hugely pessimistic person to not believe we are in pretty damned good shape going forward. That, or you're just being argumentative because you don't like the coach. And acknowledging the fact we are in good shape going forward does in no way shape or form equate to not enjoying this season  or taking anything for granted. Nothing in life is ever a given, hell the Bengals plane could crash heading to the AFC Championship Game. But it probably won't, and we'll probably have a better O-line next year which will make us a better team than we are this year.      

Summarizing all of my thoughts into one intelligent, informative, poetic post.............



 


I was wondering if I was the only one seeing this!

[BFritz21]

(01-14-2022, 09:30 AM)fredtoast Wrote: No, it is not possible.

Saying that we will be just as good if not better in the next few years is the EXACT DEFINITION of "taking for granted".  You believe (take it) as being true (granted) that this is NOT our last chance in a while.  And if you take that for granted then you would not feel the desperation and urgency that I do.

The ONLY way you can prove that you are not taking it for granted is by saying "This could be our last chance in a long time.  So we have to win now."  Otherwise you are taking it for granted that we will have other chances in the next few years.

Read and reply to Sled's post and then get back to me.

[fredtoast]

(01-14-2022, 09:12 AM)Sled21 Wrote: And acknowledging the fact we are in good shape going forward does in no way shape or form equate to not enjoying this season  or taking anything for granted. 

Saying that we will be good in the next few years and have other chances to win is THE EXACT DEFINITION of "taking for granted".

You believe (take it) that it is true (granted) that this will NOT be our last chance to win a championship with this team.

And people who believe like that will not have the sense of urgency to win it all this year.  They don't appreciate the fact that this could be our last chance in a while.  They are taking it for granted that we will have just as good of a chance to win next year or the year after.

[fredtoast]

(01-14-2022, 09:35 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: Read and reply to Sled's post and then get back to me.

Post 112

[BFritz21]

(01-14-2022, 09:36 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Saying that we will be good in the next few years and have other chances to win is THE EXACT DEFINITION of "taking for granted".

You believe (take it) that it is true (granted) that this will NOT be our last chance to win a championship with this team.

And people who believe like that will not have the sense of urgency to win it all this year.  They don't appreciate the fact that this could be our last chance in a while.  They are taking it for granted that we will have just as good of a chance to win next year or the year after.

How is it taking it for granted when we have all the main pieces to our team under contract and can only build through the draft and free agency?

You're arguing just to avoid being wrong now and it's not working out too well for you.

Like I said, successful teams, businesses, people, and just about anything else successful always look to the future so while succeeding in the present so that they can sustain success.

[fredtoast]

(01-14-2022, 09:44 AM)BFritz21 Wrote: How is it taking it for granted when we have all the main pieces to our team under contract and can only build through the draft and free agency?

Ask the '05 Bengals.


Here is what it boils down to.  You can't play both sides on this.  You have to pick one.

If you believe that this team will have more chances to win in the playoffs in the upcoming years then you are, by definition, taking it for granted.

If you think it is possible that this could be our last chance for a while then you are NOT taking ti for granted.

It is impossible to say BOTH "We are in good shape for the near future.  We will have more chances" AND "I am not taking our future chances for granted.  I think we need a sense of urgency to win NOW"

I don't mind if you want to argue either side.  But it is impossible to argue BOTH sides.

[TecmoBengals]

It's not hard to understand that anyone can think the future is good while also appreciating the current moment. Taking something for granted in the present isn't dependent on future perspectives. The phrase to take something for granted means "to value (something or someone) too lightly: to fail to properly notice or appreciate." Again, thinking the future looks good does not equate to valuing the current season too lightly or failure to properly notice or appreciate it. Thus, fredtoast's early statement in this thread that "Too many people are taking this season for granted" is a contrived take. There is no "too many people" because many people throughout this forum are talking about playoff excitement, a Raiders win, and a "Why not us?" mentality for a Super Bowl win. These discussions are evidence that people value or appreciate the moment of this current season.

Quote:You can't play both sides on this. You have to pick one.

Again, another contrived take. It is pretentious to state this in attempt to dictate the flow of the conversation when a person actually can offer the opinion the future is good while also appreciating the moment by not taking it for granted; I offer fredtoast's persistence about the definition of the word granted is pedantic and incorrect. It is very possible to have a civil conversation rooted in understanding that BFritz's take about the future does not mean the current season is being taken for granted. It is ironically rich that fredtoast frequently tells people they are wrong based on a random stat he cites, but when someone disagrees with him he resorts to empty rhetoric by insisting BFritz isn't allowed to express his feelings the way he wants. Maybe BFritz is right, the big guy just cannot admit he is wrong? And that is the connection to this initial post: Bengals fans are not taking the moment for granted but rather enjoying it with optimism. It isn't a true statement to suggest differently.

BFritz, I understand your statements and opinions. You are appreciating and enjoying the current season; the opposite of taking for granted, while also remaining optimistic about the future.

[*PhilHos*]

(01-14-2022, 09:36 AM)fredtoast Wrote: And people who believe like that will not have the sense of urgency to win it all this year.  

This is just false. I bet if you ask Burrow and he were being completely open and honest, he'd tell you that he doesn't expect this to be his last playoff game in the NFL, that the team WILL get better in the years to come.

I also bet that Burrow is going to put everything on the line for the win tomorrow. He'll dive for first downs, he'll stand tall in the pocket for that extra half second to complete a bomb to Chase knowing he's about to get lit up or a guy is going to dive into his leg. He's going to do everything and anything he can to win the game.

So, sure, maybe people take it for granted that we are starting a streak of playoff appearances, that doesn't mean the sense of urgency is any lessened because of that. Sure, maybe it is for some, but you can NOT say that the urgency is AUTOMATICALLY lessened for ALL just because one thinks there will be more playoff games in the future.

[BFritz21]

(01-14-2022, 09:57 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Ask the '05 Bengals.


Here is what it boils down to.  You can't play both sides on this.  You have to pick one.

If you believe that this team will have more chances to win in the playoffs in the upcoming years then you are, by definition, taking it for granted.

If you think it is possible that this could be our last chance for a while then you are NOT taking ti for granted.

It is impossible to say BOTH "We are in good shape for the near future.  We will have more chances" AND "I am not taking our future chances for granted.  I think we need a sense of urgency to win NOW"

I don't mind if you want to argue either side.  But it is impossible to argue BOTH sides.

So you think that there's a chance that our franchise QB will suffer a knee injury that will make him not play NEARLY AS WELL as it did the previous year and that we'll have a receiver with legal troubles like Slim (RIP) and just an overall team of hot heads/ego maniacs that will never allow the team to gel and be a consistent successful team?

You seriously will pull out anything just to avoid being wrong, won't you?

You post things like the '05 season with no context. 

You think we're taking it for granted but, once again, I have NEVER been this excited about the Bengals or one game! The entire city is going CRAZY right now getting ready for tomorrow! I don't know anyone that's not pumped about tomorrow! No one is thinking "oh, this isn't a big deal because we'll be there again next year" because we're just hoping that we can finally close the deal!

Right now, we're all getting ready like this is the biggest game in any sport of any of our lives!

Sure, we made the Super Bowl and went deeper in the playoffs before, but it was so long ago that none of us care or even think about it! This is now and we're giving it EVERYTHING WE HAVE, and so is the team!

[fredtoast]

(01-14-2022, 10:49 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote:  It is ironically rich that fredtoast frequently tells people they are wrong based on a random stat he cites, but when someone disagrees with him he resorts to empty rhetoric by insisting BFritz isn't allowed to express his feelings the way he wants.

I responded with direct quotes and showed how his statements were the literal definition of "taking for granted".  

There is a difference between saying "We have to win now because this could be our last chance" and "We will be back and have plenty more chances".  Which would you rather have the Bengals coaches preaching to the players?  And you can't say BOTH because they are very different.

[Sled21]

(01-14-2022, 06:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I responded with direct quotes and showed how his statements were the literal definition of "taking for granted".  

There is a difference between saying "We have to win now because this could be our last chance" and "We will be back and have plenty more chances".  Which would you rather have the Bengals coaches preaching to the players?  And you can't say BOTH because they are very different.

We're not coaches, nor do we have any connection to the team. Therefore, we can say we are all in and very excited for this season and tomorrows game, but if we don't win we can reload and come back next year even stronger. We're fans, we're allowed.