Who Could've Used a Playoff Win the Most?

[Shake n Blake]

I was watching Chad Johnson: A Football Life (again), and it got me thinking. Marvin Lewis was 0-7 in the playoffs with 2 separate cores of players. Maybe 3. This might be a controversial statement to some Marvin fans on here, but I think it's safe based on facts to say that Marv was the primary reason we went 0-7.

- He had 4 different QB's in the playoffs, and none had a rating better than 68
- Allowed 67.9% comp rate and 102.4 passer rating
- We had 91 rush yards or less in 4 of the 7 games
- Allowed a whopping 146.3 rush yards per game (also 4.7 ypc and 9 rush TDs)
- Only 9 sacks and 2 INT in 7 games
- We averaged 12.9 points and allowed 25.1 points

You can see from the above stats that it was team-wide failure.

So if Marv was the main reason we were losing playoff games, then you could say the players he coached were held back from greater things. So say we had a different coach back then. A more aggressive guy like Zac who didn't turtle up in the bright lights.

How much differently would we view some of our star players and their legacies if they'd won a playoff game or two?

--------------------

Whose legacy would be changed the most by a playoff run?

1. Chad Johnson

Chad, Housh and Palmer were beloved in 2005. In much the same way as Burrow and Chase now. But after the disappointments started to outweigh the success, opinions started to change. Chad's "fun" antics were viewed through the lens of playoff losses and 4-12 seasons. Would we feel a lot differently had Chad made the AFC title game in 2005 (or 2009)?

2. Carson Palmer

Does he even demand a trade if we'd made a huge run in '05 or '09? Do we see him differently if he'd not only ended our playoff drought, but also won a couple games?

3. TJ Houshmandzadeh

Only 3 guys in Bengals history have more catches. Does he stick around for less with a playoff run under his belt? Do we appreciate him more now?

4. Andy Dalton

Most TDs in team history. 2nd most pass yards. 5 straight playoff appearances. Add in a playoff run? How differently is he viewed? That's the one huge knock on Andy, and always has been.

5. Atkins/Dunlap

Two of the best defenders in team history. Geno left quietly. 'Los left on bad terms. How different are things if these guys were playoff heroes?

6. Marvin Lewis himself.

Helped lead us out of the abyss. His .518 win % was overall solid (not great). What if he made a playoff run or two?

[XenoMorph]

The Fans

[JaggedJimmyJay]

The one I think would be remembered the most differently would be Marvin Lewis. There are other ways to frame the question than that, but it's where my mind went first. After him I would probably go with Andy Dalton, who was perceived as this extremely average or even bad player (which at least in the regular season was flatly inaccurate), and maybe a playoff win or two changes that.

[Tony]

Palmer don't deserve shit.. He's still bitter.. He refuses to give Burrow credit and even urged him to force not going to cincy when drafted. Looks like you were part of the problem Palmer...

[*pally*]

I agree with the fans as a response but of the original list...the common factor for all those players was Marvin. Marvin would have another NFL coaching job today if he had just one 1 game

[Garrus]

I went with Atkins because I think he is the most likely to be selected as a HOF player (With Chad being a slight 2nd). A playoff win or two would really help him in that department I think.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(01-21-2022, 03:03 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: The Fans

Yep!

Of those listed, I think it's Dalton. He took a lot of heat for that.

[Shake n Blake]

Tbh, I don't really have a strong opinion. I think all of these players (and Marv) were massively affected by having no playoff wins on the resume here.

I don't think I'm going to vote this time, but the results will be interesting. I almost regret adding Merv. I think the players are the more interesting discussion.

[Interceptor]

(01-21-2022, 03:00 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 6. Marvin Lewis himself.

Helped lead us out of the abyss. His .518 win % was overall solid (not great). What if he made a playoff run or two?

Marv would probably still be our coach.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

If Chad Johnson would have played two more productive years, and won a couple playoff games, I think that we would have seen him as a HOF finalist by now. I still think he has a chance to make it in at some point due to name recognition and personality, plus the visibility that he brought to the Bengals. Playoff wins would only help that cause.

[Johnny Cupcakes]

If Marvin would have won a playoff game, he still would have been 1-6 over his 16 years of coaching. It wouldn't really boost him up that much in my mind.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

I said Geno/Dunlap, as they were the only people here as long as they were and missed the playoffs as much as they did, for players.

Marv won a SB with the most legendary defense of all-time, after the '85 Bears, so he has an accolade that's worthy.

[KillerGoose]

(01-21-2022, 03:06 PM)Tony Wrote: Palmer don't deserve shit.. He's still bitter.. He refuses to give Burrow credit and even urged him to force not going to cincy when drafted. Looks like you were part of the problem Palmer...

This is all false, Tony. He never said anything to urge Burrow to not come here and he has given Burrow plenty of credit. 

Palmer Praising Burrow #1

Palmer Praising Burrow #2

Palmer Praising Burrow #3

The story about Palmer trying to urge Burrow to not come here was false but people ran with it. He never said anything of the like. The story comes from an interview where Carson said he believes that Cincinnati wasn't committed to winning a Super Bowl during his tenure - this was twisted into Carson's cautioning Joe Burrow about coming here but he never mentioned anything about Burrow. 

[*rfaulk34*]

(01-21-2022, 03:00 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I was watching Chad Johnson: A Football Life (again), and it got me thinking. Marvin Lewis was 0-7 in the playoffs with 2 separate cores of players. Maybe 3. This might be a controversial statement to some Marvin fans on here, but I think it's safe based on facts to say that Marv was the primary reason we went 0-7.

- He had 4 different QB's in the playoffs, and none had a rating better than 68
- Allowed 67.9% comp rate and 102.4 passer rating
- We had 91 rush yards or less in 4 of the 7 games
- Allowed a whopping 146.3 rush yards per game (also 4.7 ypc and 9 rush TDs)
- Only 9 sacks and 2 INT in 7 games
- We averaged 12.9 points and allowed 25.1 points

You can see from the above stats that it was team-wide failure.

So if Marv was the main reason we were losing playoff games, then you could say the players he coached were held back from greater things. So say we had a different coach back then. A more aggressive guy like Zac who didn't turtle up in the bright lights.

How much differently would we view some of our star players and their legacies if they'd won a playoff game or two?

--------------------

Whose legacy would be changed the most by a playoff run?

1. Chad Johnson

Chad, Housh and Palmer were beloved in 2005. In much the same way as Burrow and Chase now. But after the disappointments started to outweigh the success, opinions started to change. Chad's "fun" antics were viewed through the lens of playoff losses and 4-12 seasons. Would we feel a lot differently had Chad made the AFC title game in 2005 (or 2009)?

2. Carson Palmer

Does he even demand a trade if we'd made a huge run in '05 or '09? Do we see him differently if he'd not only ended our playoff drought, but also won a couple games?

3. TJ Houshmandzadeh

Only 3 guys in Bengals history have more catches. Does he stick around for less with a playoff run under his belt? Do we appreciate him more now?

4. Andy Dalton

Most TDs in team history. 2nd most pass yards. 5 straight playoff appearances. Add in a playoff run? How differently is he viewed? That's the one huge knock on Andy, and always has been.

5. Atkins/Dunlap

Two of the best defenders in team history. Geno left quietly. 'Los left on bad terms. How different are things if these guys were playoff heroes?

6. Marvin Lewis himself.

Helped lead us out of the abyss. His .518 win % was overall solid (not great). What if he made a playoff run or two?

It's just my opinion, but i think it's pretty obvious that it's Dalton. With what he did during the regular season from '11-'18, a playoff win or several would have people looking at him completely different. 

Marv is probably a really close 2nd. It's just almost unfathomable that he went that long and had so many opportunities and couldn't get over the hump. 

[NUGDUKWE]

(01-21-2022, 03:00 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I was watching Chad Johnson: A Football Life (again), and it got me thinking. Marvin Lewis was 0-7 in the playoffs with 2 separate cores of players. Maybe 3. This might be a controversial statement to some Marvin fans on here, but I think it's safe based on facts to say that Marv was the primary reason we went 0-7.

- He had 4 different QB's in the playoffs, and none had a rating better than 68
- Allowed 67.9% comp rate and 102.4 passer rating
- We had 91 rush yards or less in 4 of the 7 games
- Allowed a whopping 146.3 rush yards per game (also 4.7 ypc and 9 rush TDs)
- Only 9 sacks and 2 INT in 7 games
- We averaged 12.9 points and allowed 25.1 points

You can see from the above stats that it was team-wide failure.

So if Marv was the main reason we were losing playoff games, then you could say the players he coached were held back from greater things. So say we had a different coach back then. A more aggressive guy like Zac who didn't turtle up in the bright lights.

How much differently would we view some of our star players and their legacies if they'd won a playoff game or two?

I don't really know how aggressive Zac Taylor is. I mean he went all in at the end against the Chiefs and it did work out. But has gone very conservative a lot of times this season.

Marvin went a lot of years and didn't win a playoff game so he deserves some blame but I really think a lot of that was Andy Dalton. Dude just doesn't play good in primetime for whatever reason and thats unfortunately when the playoffs are played a lot of times. If you look at Palmers games he got his knee tore up and we probably win that game. Then against the Jets our passing attack wasn't that good but Ced Benson was a man on a mission and we would've had a very good chance to win at the end if Shayne Graham doesn't miss a 20 and 30 yard field goal.

[phil413]

(01-21-2022, 03:13 PM)Garrus Wrote: I went with Atkins because I think he is the most likely to be selected as a HOF player (With Chad being a slight 2nd). A playoff win or two would really help him in that department I think.

Wins affect coaches and qb first.  Nobody cares that Barry Sanders had a sub .500 record or that he was 1-6 in the playoffs.  If you saw him you were in awe, the playoff win doesn't matter much.  

You can be consistently dominant on defense. Geno and CJ were great, but I don't think one playoff win moves the needle vs how damning for Marvin or maybe CP.  

[BengalsRocker]

TJ should have stayed, as well as Marvin Jones should have.

As good as they were, they definitely needed that #1 talent on the field with them.

Boyd is a modern day prototype of them.

He's damn good but should never fool himself at being a viable #1 receiver.



To answer your thread question though I think Chad gets higher recognition and put into the HOF.

However... Dalton has the most to gain out of all.

He's basically the butt of jokes and measure of NFL QB mediocrity.

Dalton getting some playoff runs definitely not only changes how the fans of the team perceive him but all of NFL.

[MasonDT70]

I think it's Dalton and Marvin who wouldve benefitted the most from a perception standpoint. They wouldn't be viewed as harshly as they are now.

As for the others, palmer won with the cards I feel he's viewed as a good but not great qb overall. While Chad is a borderline hof player imo he has some strong people in his corner( deion being the biggest) and hes big on social media which will help his chances i believe.

Dunlap and geno I feel wouldn't change much because unless you're part of an all time unit, average fans don't credit the defense with winning and losing games as much as the offense at least from what I've seen. Genos HoF chances are hurt mote by being a Bengal and being a quiet person more than playoff wins.

[SladeX]

I might vote on this later. Just not wanting to look back right now.

[bengals67]

(01-21-2022, 03:13 PM)Garrus Wrote: I went with Atkins because I think he is the most likely to be selected as a HOF player (With Chad being a slight 2nd). A playoff win or two would really help him in that department I think.

Geno was our best DT in history and should be considered for hall of fame but I doubt he makes it.