2014 Injury Revisited - Miracle to get to playoffs

[Luvnit2]

Here is a great article from ESPN with factual info backing up what many of us stated, injuries to our WR's and TE's in 2014 were a big reason our offense struggled and was inconsistent in 2014. Looking at this, we were very fortunate to even get to the playoffs in my opinion in 2014. This also explains AD's QBR going down a little.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/14056163/why-andy-dalton-playing-top-tier-qb-nfl

People forget, AJ missed a lot of time and only played around 60% of the snaps.

It also discusses our weakness currently for 2015. I though it was a great factual article.

Thoughts?

[djs7685]

Who the hell actually pays for ESPN Insider?

[djs7685]

(11-05-2015, 10:00 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Here is a great article from ESPN with factual info backing up what many of us stated, injuries to our WR's and TE's in 2014 were a big reason our offense struggled and was inconsistent in 2014. Looking at this, we were very fortunate to even get to the playoffs in my opinion in 2014. This also explains AD's QBR going down a little.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/14056163/why-andy-dalton-playing-top-tier-qb-nfl

People forget, AJ missed a lot of time and only played around 60% of the snaps.

It also discusses our weakness currently for 2015. I though it was a great factual article.

Thoughts?

[Luvnit2]

(11-05-2015, 10:06 AM)djs7685 Wrote:

Serious question for you DJS.

Do you ever contribute anything to threads other than sarcastic opinioned BS?

What do your comments have to do with this thread? The writer posted factual playing time 2014 versus 2015, but you were too busy putting on your ass wipe hat to see that I guy.

[djs7685]

(11-05-2015, 10:00 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Here is a great article from ESPN with factual info backing up what many of us stated, injuries to our WR's and TE's in 2014 were a big reason our offense struggled and was inconsistent in 2014. Looking at this, we were very fortunate to even get to the playoffs in my opinion in 2014. This also explains AD's QBR going down a little.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/14056163/why-andy-dalton-playing-top-tier-qb-nfl

People forget, AJ missed a lot of time and only played around 60% of the snaps.

It also discusses our weakness currently for 2015. I though it was a great factual article.

Thoughts?

Fact - the snap counts.

Opinion - injuries to our WRs and TEs in 2014 were a big reason our offense struggled and was inconsistent in 2014.

Opinion - our weakness currently for 2015.

Don't flip on me for being an "ass wipe" when you don't even understand what a "fact" is. Don't word your posts the way you do if you don't want called out on it. Sorry, not sorry. Get a more firm grasp on the language if you don't want me to explain these things to you on a regular basis.

Not to mention, only like 10 people on earth are stupid enough to pay for ESPN Insider, so I doubt anybody here can even read the article.

[Sovereign Nation]

(11-05-2015, 10:00 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Here is a great article from ESPN with factual info backing up what many of us stated, injuries to our WR's and TE's in 2014 were a big reason our offense struggled and was inconsistent in 2014. Looking at this, we were very fortunate to even get to the playoffs in my opinion in 2014. This also explains AD's QBR going down a little.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/14056163/why-andy-dalton-playing-top-tier-qb-nfl

People forget, AJ missed a lot of time and only played around 60% of the snaps.

It also discusses our weakness currently for 2015. I though it was a great factual article.

Thoughts?

I wouldn't say a miracle.  However anyone who does understand football and isn't an internet tough guy poser would have seen that last year's team was hurt and limping.  Guys who were supporters of Dalton in '11, '12, and '13 had to endure that the team was winning despite Andy Dalton as our QB.  That if not for our Defense we wouldn't have made the playoffs, only to blame Dalton for the loss.  If not for Green, Dalton wouldn't be able to win.

You would have thought that '14 would have helped get more people to realize that Dalton was a good QB since all of the factors that were attributed to his success was missing or hurting.

We didn't have a dominant D, with multiple players missing, our stud TE was hurt and gone for the year, our second WR never played a snap.  Our veteran TE had back issues, not only that be also inconsistent when he did play and Green also missed significant time.

That dynamic RB that we drafted - Giovani - was also injured and we under utilized our power back until halfway through the season. 

A lot of people were given credit to Hill for our success last year, but one only has to look at this year's performance to see that Hill wasn't the only reason for the success.

One thing that did help contribute to our playoff appearance was our schedule.  We played the AFC and NFC south last year and we all know that those 2 divisions don't have the best teams in the league.

Bottom line:  Dalton, to me at least, actually had a good year last year with all things considered.  I understood where the criticism was coming from, I just didn't agree with it.  Unlike some people, I did know that Dalton was going to have a much better year this year if everyone stayed healthy.  So far so good.

[Goalpost]

Last year we had the early bye i think and we were already beat up. Injury wise nothing came together last year. Couldn't read the whole article because it blocked out unfortunately.

[djs7685]

(11-05-2015, 12:18 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: 1. However anyone who does understand football and isn't an internet tough guy poser would have seen that last year's team was hurt and limping.

2. You would have thought that '14 would have helped get more people to realize that Dalton was a good QB since all of the factors that were attributed to his success was missing or hurting.

3. A lot of people were given credit to Hill for our success last year, but one only has to look at this year's performance to see that Hill wasn't the only reason for the success.

4. One thing that did help contribute to our playoff appearance was our schedule.  We played the AFC and NFC south last year and we all know that those 2 divisions don't have the best teams in the league.

5. Bottom line:  Dalton, to me at least, actually had a good year last year with all things considered.  I understood where the criticism was coming from, I just didn't agree with it.  Unlike some people, I did know that Dalton was going to have a much better year this year if everyone stayed healthy.  So far so good.

1. Ouch, pot meet the kettle.

2. This is true, even though his statline wasn't pretty, he was playing solid football and most people could see his decision making and pocket awareness improve even though he had to deal with so many injuries to his receiving weapons. Call me crazy, but I was actually more impressed with some things Andy was doing in 2014 than what he did in previous years, but some just wanted to bash him for his numbers being down.

3. To be fair, Hill did have a LOT to do with our success last year. Gio wasn't playing at a high level, Andy wasn't throwing the big volume numbers, and a lot of our other guys were injured. Hill's performance this year has absolutely zero to do with critiquing what he did in 2014, that doesn't even make sense to say that it does.

4. Playing those 2 divisions is a great point to bring up as I'm sure it did have a lot to do with the 4th consecutive playoff appearance. It also helps that Andy and the Bengals have done such a great job beating Baltimore in close games since 2011. I'd like to see them 2-0 Cleveland more often than they do now.

5. I was very tough on Andy after 2013, I probably nitpicked him more than I should have. I'm often seen as an "Andy hater" because of all of that, and I still refuse to say that 2013 was some absolutely amazing performance, but I was happy with most of his 2014, and I'm surprised more people didn't see the little things that showed promise for this year. I don't know if anyone could see his 2015 deep ball being absurdly accurate coming, but the stuff like his movements in the pocket last year were HUGE for his progression, and I'm stoked to see that turn into what we're seeing now.

[Sovereign Nation]

(11-05-2015, 12:29 PM)djs7685 Wrote: 1. Ouch, pot meet the kettle.

2. This is true, even though his statline wasn't pretty, he was playing solid football and most people could see his decision making and pocket awareness improve even though he had to deal with so many injuries to his receiving weapons. Call me crazy, but I was actually more impressed with some things Andy was doing in 2014 than what he did in previous years, but some just wanted to bash him for his numbers being down.

3. To be fair, Hill did have a LOT to do with our success last year. Gio wasn't playing at a high level, Andy wasn't throwing the big volume numbers, and a lot of our other guys were injured. Hill's performance this year has absolutely zero to do with critiquing what he did in 2014, that doesn't even make sense to say that it does.

4. Playing those 2 divisions is a great point to bring up as I'm sure it did have a lot to do with the 4th consecutive playoff appearance. It also helps that Andy and the Bengals have done such a great job beating Baltimore in close games since 2011. I'd like to see them 2-0 Cleveland more often than they do now.

5. I was very tough on Andy after 2013, I probably nitpicked him more than I should have. I'm often seen as an "Andy hater" because of all of that, and I still refuse to say that 2013 was some absolutely amazing performance, but I was happy with most of his 2014, and I'm surprised more people didn't see the little things that showed promise for this year. I don't know if anyone could see his 2015 deep ball being absurdly accurate coming, but the stuff like his movements in the pocket last year were HUGE for his progression, and I'm stoked to see that turn into what we're seeing now.

Are we actually agreeing on something? 












You're an asshat!

[djs7685]

(11-05-2015, 12:37 PM)Sovereign Nation Wrote: Are we actually agreeing on something? 

You're an asshat!

Eh, I have no problem agreeing with someone that I typically don't if they make some good points.

I think Andy showed a ton of maturity last year whether his statline was great or not. He showed me progression in his skillset which is something I didn't feel that I saw enough of from 2011 to 2012, or from 2012 to 2013.

A lot of people bashed me saying that Andy "improved" every year because his stats went up, but it was more than the stats to me when I'd say that he didn't improve much. I felt like I saw the biggest improvement last year and it's just a shame that the injuries piled up so we didn't get to see the full potential. This year we're seeing it, and my goodness is his deep pass a thing of beauty more than ever before.

Playing the 2 south divisions absolutely helped and that's one of the biggest reasons I can't considered us making the playoffs a miracle. We went 6-1-1 against those 2 divisions and 4-4 outside of them. I think that's a great point to bring up, and not to bash the Bengals because they can only play who is on the schedule, but it seems as if we may not have kept the playoff streak alive had we played basically any other divisions.

[XenoMorph]

(11-05-2015, 12:43 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Eh, I have no problem agreeing with someone that I typically don't if they make some good points.

I think Andy showed a ton of maturity last year whether his statline was great or not. He showed me progression in his skillset which is something I didn't feel that I saw enough of from 2011 to 2012, or from 2012 to 2013.

A lot of people bashed me saying that Andy "improved" every year because his stats went up, but it was more than the stats to me when I'd say that he didn't improve much. I felt like I saw the biggest improvement last year and it's just a shame that the injuries piled up so we didn't get to see the full potential. This year we're seeing it, and my goodness is his deep pass a thing of beauty more than ever before.

Playing the 2 south divisions absolutely helped and that's one of the biggest reasons I can't considered us making the playoffs a miracle. We went 6-1-1 against those 2 divisions and 4-4 outside of them. I think that's a great point to bring up, and not to bash the Bengals because they can only play who is on the schedule, but it seems as if we may not have kept the playoff streak alive had we played basically any other divisions.

i think he actually managed to improve his completition % last year dispite not having many reliable targets to throw too. when you consider who was missing off the field. and what they are doing now.

And I would say the schedule helped us. a bit but winning those games were a big reason those teams had bad records.. Overall i think the AFCN crushed the NFCS last year i dont have my thread from last year as it was on the other site but the AFCN crushed both those divisions last year i believe.

[Sovereign Nation]

(11-05-2015, 12:43 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Eh, I have no problem agreeing with someone that I typically don't if they make some good points.

I think Andy showed a ton of maturity last year whether his statline was great or not. He showed me progression in his skillset which is something I didn't feel that I saw enough of from 2011 to 2012, or from 2012 to 2013.

A lot of people bashed me saying that Andy "improved" every year because his stats went up, but it was more than the stats to me when I'd say that he didn't improve much. I felt like I saw the biggest improvement last year and it's just a shame that the injuries piled up so we didn't get to see the full potential. This year we're seeing it, and my goodness is his deep pass a thing of beauty more than ever before.

Playing the 2 south divisions absolutely helped and that's one of the biggest reasons I can't considered us making the playoffs a miracle. We went 6-1-1 against those 2 divisions and 4-4 outside of them. I think that's a great point to bring up, and not to bash the Bengals because they can only play who is on the schedule, but it seems as if we may not have kept the playoff streak alive had we played basically any other divisions.

Same way here.  A good point is a good point.  The problem is, some people don't concede a good point out of arrogance.

I will say that Andy did improve every year and to me he has grown about the normal rate one should expect from a young QB.  The stats are used as a way to measure his growth.  You use it in comparisons with other QBs, especially the great ones.  When Andy had a down game and someone would say to bench him or cut him, you point out the down games of Drew Brees and Manning and just this Sunday's Aaron Rodgers.  Now that doesn't mean that Andy will have the same career, but you can't deny that he has been just as successful in his career so far as those other guys to warrant keeping him as our starter.  As Fred has said, "Winning QBs are hard to find"

The opponent is very important to consider when trying to evaluate your team, however you must be careful as each year always has a surprise team or 2.  When I looked at the schedule before the season.  I would have said that we beat Oakland and lost to SD.  We won both, great.  However, I looked at the victory over SD as more significant than the victory over Oakland.  Now halfway through the season, I think the victory over Oakland is more significant due to the fact that they have a winning record AND we had never won in Oakland.  

I do agree that we might not have made the playoffs last year had we played the NFC East or AFC West.  Though we wouldn't really know as the game plans would have been different and we did beat the Broncos last year.  

[Luvnit2]

(11-05-2015, 01:04 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: i think he actually managed to improve his completition % last year dispite not having many reliable targets to throw too.   when you consider who was missing off the field. and what they are doing now.

And I would say the schedule helped us. a bit but winning those games were a big reason those teams had bad records.. Overall i think the AFCN crushed the NFCS last year i dont have my thread from last year as it was on the other site but the AFCN crushed both those divisions last year i believe.

They did play a different schedule, but hard to compare as pure speculation if he benefited or not.

But, there were facts showing the lack of offensive weapons.

It would be like Brown playing 60%, Bryant 0% and Heath Miller playing 2% of the Steelers snaps this year after the played almost all of them the previous year and expecting Ben to have the same or better QBR, it would not happen.

[TSwigZ]

Someone copy and paste the article for me pleaseeeee

[Luvnit2]

(11-05-2015, 06:00 PM)TSwigZ Wrote: Someone copy and paste the article for me pleaseeeee

 Sando wrote this article.

The Cincinnati Bengals spent four seasons hoping quarterback Andy Dalton could operate like the badass he has become during their 7-0 start to this season.
You want leadership backed by performance?
There was Dalton against Seattle in Week 5, moving up and down the sideline telling teammates the improbable truth, that the Bengals could win a game they'd trailed by 17 points in the fourth quarter if they only played their game. There was Dalton at Pittsburgh last week, fleeing a chaotic pocket with purpose instead of panic before flipping the ball to Giovani Bernard for a 23-yard gain to sustain the winning fourth-quarter touchdown drive. There Dalton is now, ranking with Aaron Rodgers and Tom Brady among the 2015 leaders in Total QBR, a neighborhood he has visited on occasion in the past without establishing anything beyond temporary residency.
The first seven games of this season have shown the Bengals what Dalton can be at his best. By now, they've seen enough to uncross their fingers and dare to dream how far they can go with their reborn quarterback. With nine regular-season games remaining, including an AFC North date with Cleveland on Thursday night, it's important to keep in mind why Dalton is playing like a top-tier quarterback -- and what must happen for the Bengals to avoid another January disappointment.

Andy Dalton and the Bengals are 7-0 headed into a Thursday night game vs. the Browns. Andy Lyons / Getty Images
Weaponry fully restored
Dramatic changes to the Bengals' wide receivers and tight ends explain why Dalton is in position to succeed this season. The 2014 Bengals lost tight end Tyler Eifert in Week 1 and never had receiver Marvin Jones, a player they hoped would enjoy a breakout season. Eifert has played more than 96 percent of the snaps this season, while Jones has played more than 80 percent. Top receiver A.J. Green has gone from 60.9 percent playing time last season to 91.5 percent this season.
Coaches from other teams have noticed Dalton forcing the ball to Green over the years, and the numbers back up those observations. Dalton has 37 touchdowns and 31 interceptions when targeting Green. He has 77 touchdowns and 39 interceptions when targeting everyone else. Green caught the Bengals' go-ahead touchdown pass on third down against Pittsburgh last week. He's obviously the best wide receiver on the team and a dynamic threat, but Dalton has less reason to force the ball to him when the Bengals possess a full contingent of talented alternatives. He has three touchdowns and two interceptions when targeting Green this season, compared to 12 TDs and two picks when targeting others.
The chart below ranks the Bengals' receivers and tight ends by percentage of offensive snaps played this season. Their 2014 playing time, listed in the middle column, illustrates how different the personnel has been for Dalton in 2015. Jermaine Gresham is out and replaced by Eifert, who ranks second to Rob Gronkowski in Pro Football Focus grading at the position this season. (Gresham, now with Arizona, is 84th.) PFF ranks Green eighth among receivers, with Jones 38th and Mohamed Sanu 53rd.
Bengals WRs/TEs by percentage of snaps
2014 percentage
2015 percentageTyler Eifert
0.8%
96.4%
A.J. Green
60.9%
91.5%
Marvin Jones
0% (IR)
81.4%
Mohamed Sanu
92.5%
64.3%
Ryan Hewitt
44.3%
37.4%
Tyler Kroft
not on team
15.7%
Brandon Tate
45.7%
0.2%
James Wright
17.3%
0% (IR)
Jermaine Gresham
82.3%
not on team
Dane Sanzenbacher
18.5%
not on team
Kevin Brock
15.1%
not on team
Greg Little
12.6%
not on team
Alex Smith
1.4%
not on team
Keeping this core group healthy will be the No. 1 variable for Dalton to maintain a high level of performance through the regular season and beyond.
Leadership talk rings true
The Bengals opened training camp with coach Marvin Lewis saying veteran tackle Andrew Whitworth had "passed the baton" of leadership to Dalton. The coaching staff encouraged Dalton to become more vocal. Dalton said he planned to push a message of accountability when a receiver ran a sloppy route or someone missed an assignment.
It sounded great, but would it mean anything if Dalton himself failed to perform well? That's a question the Bengals haven't needed to ask. The way Dalton overcame rough stretches to lead comeback victories over Seattle and Pittsburgh would give any quarterback credibility. The Bengals will hit rough stretches. Teams usually do. But Dalton now has more equity than ever to weather them.
Running game a small concern
The Bengals will always lean on the ground game as long as Hue Jackson is their coordinator. They have run on 42 percent of plays, the seventh-highest rate in the league (37.8 is average). Cincinnati has not been a power running team, however. Top back Jeremy Hill is averaging only 3.3 yards per carry. The much smaller and shiftier Bernard leads the team in rushing yards while averaging 5.6 per attempt. The Bengals have been more inclined to spread the field and run from those formations.
Look for the Bengals to re-emphasize the power running game as the weather turns less favorable for passing. Facing the Browns could get the ball rolling in that direction. Cleveland ranks 28th in yards allowed per rush (4.8) and 32nd in rushing yards allowed after contact (2.1).
Where Bengals could be vulnerable
When Cincinnati lost to Houston in the 2012 playoffs, the Texans controlled the ball for more than 38 minutes, amassing 158 yards on the ground. The Bengals currently rank 31st in yards allowed per carry (5.0), so a similar situation could be a concern if Dalton and the offense suffer through a rough day. Such a scenario was playing out against the Steelers last week, but Pittsburgh lost running back Le'Veon Bell to injury in the second quarter. The Steelers finished with 19 carries for 116 yards, a 6.1-yard average, but Bell had only 10 rushes before departing.

The Bengals' formula for winning has evolved. The team ranked third in defensive expected points added (EPA) during Dalton's first three seasons, enabling the Bengals to post a 30-18 record despite ranking 18th in QBR (no team ranked lower than the Bengals in QBR over that stretch managed to win more than 24 games). Last season, the Bengals were 18th in QBR and only 15th in defensive EPA, but going 3-1 against the weak AFC South helped them finish 10-5-1 anyway.
The current Bengals are fourth in QBR and 10th in defensive EPA. Linebacker Vontaze Burfict's recent return from injury figures to make them less vulnerable against the run as the season progresses.
For the Bengals, these concerns are much preferred to wondering whether they were smart in signing their quarterback to a six-year deal averaging $16 million per season. Teams would pay much more than that for the production Dalton and the passing game are providing.