(02-04-2022, 05:37 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Imo, players should be acknowledged who paved the way, but the NFL was just to unstable from 1920 to 1966 to take those championships seriously.
You had dozens upon dozens of teams who played a season, then folded. Team mergers. Multiple league mergers. Etc.
The league didn't start to resemble what we see now until the Super Bowl era, followed quickly by the AFL/NFL merger.
So I (like many) choose to just look at that. That's why you see so many records say "since the merger" or "during the SB era".
No disrespect to past teams/players. It's just that the league was a mess in it's formative years.
You can the same for all the major team sports especially the NHL where in 1917 you had 4 teams. The Montreal Canadians have 24 titles.
You can say the same for each league which excluded Blacks.
You can say all the College football Championships prior to this 4 team playoff routine doesn't count because it was about people voting for mythical championships.
Each sports league had growing pains.
Riddle me this which Championships are closer in relationships the 1965 NFL Championship[Green Bay] and 1966 Superbowl I[Green Bay] or the 1966 Superbowl I[Green Bay] and 2021 Superbowl 55[Tampa Bay]??
Let me break it down for you. 1965 and 1966 Champs are one year difference. While the 1966 and 2021 Superbowl champs are 56 years apart.
The 65 and 66 Champs have more in common than the 1966 and 2021 Champs. The rules, players, etc are different now, the only different is the moniker Superbowl champs. A team today would need two weeks or more to learn and play ball of 1966. While there is no difference between the 1965 and 1966 champs. The same can be said of a AL MLB team of today who play with the Designated Hitter rule vs a team of 1965. The same can be said of the NBA winner these days with the 3 point line vs the Boston Celtics of 1965. I have not even touched conditioning of a team today compared to one in 1966. The NFL/NBA/NHL/MLB champs of 1965 have more in common with the 1966 teams then the 2021 Champs. Yet in football you group the 1966 champs with the 2021 champs, under SuperBowl Champs. No Sorry, the 1965 Champs and 1966 Champs are the same. 2021 players will refuse to play or sign via free agency with a team that has hard artificial turf of the the 1970's. So, you really can't even compare players theses days with the 70's, but because we keep the title Superbowl they are grouped the same. Sorry they are not, the one thing they are is Champions, be it the 1917 Montreal Canadiens or the 1923 New York Yankees or the 1957 Boston Celtics or the 1929 Green Bay Packers.
(02-04-2022, 06:38 PM)TecmoBengals Wrote: I'm always rooting for only the Bengals to win it all, but I like Buffalo's fans and hope they get to eventually see a Super Bowl winner.
For sure. I'd love to see them finally make up for 0-4 and get one.
(02-04-2022, 06:49 PM)BengalYankee Wrote: You can the same for all the major team sports especially the NHL where in 1917 you had 4 teams. The Montreal Canadians have 24 titles.
You can say the same for each league which excluded Blacks.
You can say all the College football Championships prior to this 4 team playoff routine doesn't count because it was about people voting for mythical championships.
Each sports league had growing pains.
Riddle me this which Championships are closer in relationships the 1965 NFL Championship[Green Bay] and 1966 Superbowl I[Green Bay] or the 1966 Superbowl I[Green Bay] and 2021 Superbowl 55[Tampa Bay]??
Let me break it down for you. 1965 and 1966 Champs are one year difference. While the 1966 and 2021 Superbowl champs are 56 years apart.
The 65 and 66 Champs have more in common than the 1966 and 2021 Champs. The rules, players, etc are different now, the only different is the moniker Superbowl champs. A team today would need two weeks or more to learn and play ball of 1966. While there is no difference between the 1965 and 1966 champs. The same can be said of a AL MLB team of today who play with the Designated Hitter rule vs a team of 1965. The same can be said of the NBA winner these days with the 3 point line vs the Boston Celtics of 1965. I have not even touched conditioning of a team today compared to one in 1966. The NFL/NBA/NHL/MLB champs of 1965 have more in common with the 1966 teams then the 2021 Champs. Yet in football you group the 1966 champs with the 2021 champs, under SuperBowl Champs. No Sorry, the 1965 Champs and 1966 Champs are the same. 2021 players will refuse to play or sign via free agency with a team that has hard artificial turf of the the 1970's. So, you really can't even compare players theses days with the 70's, but because we keep the title Superbowl they are grouped the same. Sorry they are not, the one thing they are is Champions, be it the 1917 Montreal Canadiens or the 1923 New York Yankees or the 1957 Boston Celtics or the 1929 Green Bay Packers.
I'm not going to delve into each league and the legitimacy of their championships. I gave you my reasoning for the NFL, and that's that. Really seems like a minor thing to go on a tirade over, BY.
But I suppose someone has to defend the honor of the Pottsville Maroons and Providence Steam Rollers.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
(02-04-2022, 05:37 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Imo, players should be acknowledged who paved the way, but the NFL was just to unstable from 1920 to 1966 to take those championships seriously.
You had dozens upon dozens of teams who played a season, then folded. Team mergers. Multiple league mergers. Etc.
Since 1952 there have been no teams that folded or merged. There were only 12 teams, but that is plenty for a league. Since 1952 Cleveland has played in 7 Championship games and won 3. The Browns played in the 2 NFL Championship games just before the Super Bowl era began winning their last championship in 1964.
I feel bad for Lions fans. They're one of few fanbases that has legitimately had it worse than we have had it throughout the Super Bowl era (sure their oldest living fans might remember the '50s titles). They're one year short of our drought and not nearly as well-positioned as we were entering this season to bring it to an end. There is no Burrow in sight this draft.
(02-05-2022, 12:03 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Since 1952 there have been no teams that folded or merged. There were only 12 teams, but that is plenty for a league. Since 1952 Cleveland has played in 7 Championship games and won 3. The Browns played in the 2 NFL Championship games just before the Super Bowl era began winning their last championship in 1964.
I said between 1920 and 1966. For the bulk of that period, there was a lot of change and instability. If you want to say things have been legit since 1952, by all means, go ahead.
I'd rather just keep it simple and go by the Super Bowl era, as the AFL expanded the list of teams from 16 to 26 and made the odds of winning a championship much smaller.
For me, it reminds me of how Bill Russell won 11 rings, but did so in a league with just 8-14 teams max, with a team that just out talented the other 7 squads.
Sports have evolved a lot and are far more refined now. Does this mean Bill's rings mean nothing? Of course not.
But it's hard to compare the Celtics winning 11 in a tiny league where the most profitable franchises would often just buy great players from other teams - to say...the Bulls winning 6 championships in a 28 team league with free agency and refinements to make the league fair for all.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
(02-05-2022, 01:35 AM)JaggedJimmyJay Wrote: I feel bad for Lions fans. They're one of few fanbases that has legitimately had it worse than we have had it throughout the Super Bowl era (sure their oldest living fans might remember the '50s titles). They're one year short of our drought and not nearly as well-positioned as we were entering this season to bring it to an end. There is no Burrow in sight this draft.
8 straight playoff losses for them as well.
They're pretty much us prior to Burrow, except their 90s was better than ours, and their 2000s were worse. But like you said, there's no hope in sight for them yet.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
If we win... it'll be the final exorcism. There's no slump we could fall into that would erase the memory of a Super Bowl. Basically bulletproof. And I mean, to the younger crowd that may not be worth much. But for those who endured "the darkness," it would mean a lot. Felt like you were caught in a vicious cycle then. Even in years when the team took a step forward, you were always looking over your shoulder. Always feeling like you were on the edge of being sucked back into the vortex.
With a win next week, those days would be over. A leap forward the likes of which is unprecedented in the NFL. It would be historic in all the right ways, for all the right reasons. The franchise and the fans would be fully rehabilitated.
(02-04-2022, 09:46 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: For sure. I'd love to see them finally make up for 0-4 and get one.
I'm not going to delve into each league and the legitimacy of their championships. I gave you my reasoning for the NFL, and that's that. Really seems like a minor thing to go on a tirade over, BY.
But I suppose someone has to defend the honor of the Pottsville Maroons and Providence Steam Rollers.
Please explain to me where I went into a tirade???
I thought this was a website where we expressed our opinions and facts?
If I say the 1965 Champs have more in common with the 1966 Champs than the 1966 Champs and the 2021 Champs is that a tirade???
My opinion if we are allowed to have it on this website is that the 64 Browns have more in common with the 66 Packers than the 66 Packers and the 21 Bucs. My fact is that at the end of the 65 season the Packers had won a NFL Championship and won another NFL Championship in 1966.
The fact is that Jim Brown played from 1955 to 1965 and never played in the Superbowl era. Most people opinion is that he was the GOAT in regards to RB. Otto Graham won 7 Championships in 10 years that's a fact. Au contraire, Brady won 7 Championships in 22 years, by popular opinion he is the GOAT in regards to QB. You didn't answer my first riddle in my previous thread, maybe you can answer this ridddle[not a tirade].
Assuming Graham was better than Brady at one time. Now assume Brady surpassed Graham as the GOAT, when did Brady do it after his first NFL Championship win, his second, his third, ... his sixth, his seventh?
Maybe you are under the impression that Brady surpassed Graham the day he was drafted and made the Patriot squad. You are entitled to your opinion. The same can be said of our RB Joe Mixon, he surpassed Jim Brown the day he made the Bengals squad after all Jim Brown never played in the Superbowl era. Neither did Graham play in the Superbowl era, so Andy Dalton is better than Otto Graham. Thus teams/players like the Bills, Chargers, and Oilers/Titans surpassed Otto Graham's and Jim Brown's Browns.
I did not forget my riddle for you, did you come up with an answer between Graham and Brady?
I am sorry, I am going through a tirade again instead of discussing a point.
For those still harboring doubts don't become one with Flooby Nooby. Flooby Nooby* must become one with you..
*my reference to the film by Bill Plimton, The Film
You're welcome,
Sincerely The Wise One
In the immortal words of my old man, "Wait'll you get to be my age!"
Chicago sounds rough to the maker of verse, but the one comfort we have is Cincinnati sounds worse. ~Oliver Wendal Holmes Sr.
(02-05-2022, 08:28 AM)BengalYankee Wrote: Please explain to me where I went into a tirade???
I thought this was a website where we expressed our opinions and facts?
You do this every single time someone brings up Lombardi trophies. You have expressed that fact many, many times and you've expressed your opinion several times in this thread.
Why can't you just allow another poster to compare Lombardi trophies and leave it at that? You don't have to bring up total NFL championships since the league was formed every time this comes up. It gets very argumentative, goes on forever and hijacks the thread.
By all means, make the point but then move on. We've seen this played out over at least a couple sub-forums many times already.
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
(02-04-2022, 04:42 PM)NUGDUKWE Wrote: If we win we will have gone from the team with the longest stretch since they're last playoff when to the team with the most recent win. If this happens I may just have to bring this up in random conversation with people for a year. Who Dey!!!
This has to be the craziest turn around by one team ever...
We went from a bottom 5 team to a legit SB contender in 1 season. Blows my mind.
Great job by Zac, all the coaches, the FO and the players.
(02-05-2022, 03:04 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You do this every single time someone brings up Lombardi trophies. You have expressed that fact many, many times and you've expressed your opinion several times in this thread.
Why can't you just allow another poster to compare Lombardi trophies and leave it at that? You don't have to bring up total NFL championships since the league was formed every time this comes up. It gets very argumentative, goes on forever and hijacks the thread.
By all means, make the point but then move on. We've seen this played out over at least a couple sub-forums many times already.
rfaulk34, you and Shake are dear friends since the original Bengal board site, but you are wrong now.
My commenting on NFL Championships has been only on the SmackDown forum, especially against Stealer fans as I casually provide gifs and comments that the Packers have 13 Championships to their 6 titles and really get after them when I mention the Browns have 8 titles to their 6.
You won't find a thread where I mention about the Packers having 13 titles on the Jungle Noise forum. So these threads are new and to discuss with my fellow Bengal fans.
I was not hijacking this thread I was responding to a post about the number of titles the Stealers and Patriots have that Shake had posted "6".
I clearly wrote that the Packers have "13" titles. That my friend is a fact, not an opinion.
If the issue is who has the most titles since 1966? That is arbitrary. Championships before 1966 don't expire like milk in a container.
I am going to give you a 100% scenario and you are anyone else can dispute me, I mean isn't this website for discussion or am I being CANCELED or CENSORED because I have a different opinion??
Now my scenario...
A Browns fan that lived and enjoyed his team from 1946 till their last Championship in 1964. Correct me if I am wrong, this Browns fan had 8 celebrations where he and all the other Browns fans celebrated that their team achieved the highest goal. They partied, celebrated, probably had parades, the Mayor of Cleveland, maybe even the Governor of Ohio attended the celebration[Maybe the Governor will greet the Bengals with this year's SB win]. The same could be for the folks of Green Bay, Wisconsin they partied hard and called their city "Titletown USA". Back to that Browns fan or many Browns fans and Green Bay fans. This Brown's fan dies in 1965. Doesn't he die knowing his team won 8 Championships?? Did these titles expire in 1966? Can you eliminate the feelings and celebrations the Browns fans had for 8 years??? How many Championships did Paul Brown have? [7]. Do you snap your fingers and all the thoughts and celebrations go away? It never happened now all teams start at zero Championships in 1966.
The Packer fans prior to the merger had 9 Championships then they won the 1966 and 1967 NFL Championships. You are going to tell me Packer fans back then that they have only two legitimate Championships???
Since we are talking about 1966, then Jim Brown and all his stats don't count since the Cleveland Browns stats don't count. He retired in 1965 and he started in 1955. Browns and Packers stats don't count? Then Jim Brown stats don't count. The NFL starts in 1966, I guess all stats expired. Why not start in other sports leagues? Ok, Babe Ruth doesn't count, since his stats start from the 20's. Oh it's because the NFL merged with the AFL they whine. In 1970 they were 26 NFL teams, but in the MLB in 1970 there were 24 teams. Both leagues started nearly the same time and all MLB stats count including 27 titles for my Yankees.
We gonna fight if you whine and take my Yankee titles away...
I bet you won't retort and comment on what I am going to say, but try to CENSOR or CANCEL me.
It is my opinion or better-worded preference to have seen all 6 NFL Championships like the Stealers and the Patriots fans that I saw with my own eyes , then have 8 Championships that the Browns have and I never saw any of their old crusty Championships.
Read very closely what I write ...
I would rather see and witness at least one Bengal Championship in 2022 and celebrate and party AND if we win that is what I am going to do.
Then read up in the library about 8 crusty Championships.
When my Stealer friends bring up how many rings do you guys have? I bring up it's 2022, not 1966.
And I also say the Browns have 8 rings and the Packers 13. That gets them and I guess some Bengals fans
Ok, guys please don't hate me because of the facts and opinions I bring this is a website to discuss right?
P.S. I still want to know from anyone the question at what point in the timeline of Tom Brady does he surpass Otto Graham as the GOAT?
The day he got drafted or is it when he won his first, second, third ..., sixth, seventh NFL Championship?
For what it is worth Otto served in the Navy during WW2 and after his release in 1946 he won an NBA title with the Rochester Royals. Oh,
I see the hateful comments about the Royals coming. Yeah, I know not one single African-American on the team below, a shame.
My wife is away and I need relief from this thread...
![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png)
![[Image: 4540978331_3e8fe35323.jpg]](http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2781/4540978331_3e8fe35323.jpg)
![[Image: la_coka_nostra_guns.gif?width=450&height...&crop=fill]](https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/ac43/cmidy7/.highres/la_coka_nostra_guns.gif?width=450&height=278&crop=fill)
, then have 8 Championships that the Browns have and I never saw any of their old crusty Championships.
![[Image: FKroAFcUUAAJjEu?format=jpg&name=900x900]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FKroAFcUUAAJjEu?format=jpg&name=900x900)
![[Image: royals0424.jpg]](https://www.si.com/.image/t_share/MTcyMDcyNzgyMTU3MzI1NDc3/royals0424.jpg)
![[Image: 6c2af28af99687e5facafbcae2607f77.jpg]](https://i.pinimg.com/236x/6c/2a/f2/6c2af28af99687e5facafbcae2607f77.jpg)
