Gronk

[*ochocincos*]

(02-10-2022, 12:30 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I keep seeing this, but who believes if we signed Gronk we would be prevented from signing 1 hopefully 2 good FA olinemen?

Also he isnt that old in fact he is the same age as Kelce, considered the best TE in the league...

As a fan I would be super elated to acquire Gronk at good price and healthy.   But as long as we address C, RG, and RT via FA (2 min) and the draft (2 min), I'll be satisfied.

The team has a lot of open roster spots it will need to fill, so it will depend on the amount of players they add and the contracts they sign for.
That available $56 mill in cap ($67 mill if Waynes is cut) can evaporate quickly.

I do expect they'll keep at least 3 out of Bates, Apple, Spain, Uzomah, Ogunjobi, Hill.
Bates will 100% be over $10mill (likely $13 mill tag).
I think Spain, Uzomah, and Hill all will sign between $6-8 mill.
Ogunjobi might be slightly higher, but his playoff injury could affect what he signs for.
I think Apple will be somewhat less than that.

This will be an interesting mid-March for sure.

[Cosmokramer]

(02-10-2022, 10:02 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote: He's been hurt throughout most of his career. If we signed him, we'd have to anticipate not getting a full 17 games out of him. His rookie year he played 16 games and started 11 of them. In 2011 he played 16/16 games and he did it again in 2020. Other than those seasons, he's never played a full season of ball.

He has been hurt,  but so has CJ, I think Gronk and CJ both on the field would keep them fresher,  Gronk has always been a work horse for Brady, he could come here as a different player,  not expected to catch 100passes for 1k yrds a season.  just him being on the field is an interruption.  Would def help the scheme!

[bengals73]

I saw if we win the Superbowl get Gronk. If not, Get Gronk.

[casear2727]

(02-10-2022, 10:59 AM)ochocincos Wrote: The team has a lot of open roster spots it will need to fill, so it will depend on the amount of players they add and the contracts they sign for.
That available $56 mill in cap ($67 mill if Waynes is cut) can evaporate quickly.

I do expect they'll keep at least 3 out of Bates, Apple, Spain, Uzomah, Ogunjobi, Hill.
Bates will 100% be over $10mill (likely $13 mill tag).
I think Spain, Uzomah, and Hill all will sign between $6-8 mill.
Ogunjobi might be slightly higher, but his playoff injury could affect what he signs for.
I think Apple will be somewhat less than that.

This will be an interesting mid-March for sure.

Good points, I'm not one that thinks we have unlimited $$$, and definitely want the front office to prioritize protecting Joe - in fact that should be the #1 priority for the next 10-15 years.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-10-2022, 11:34 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Good points, I'm not one that thinks we have unlimited $$$, and definitely want the front office to prioritize protecting Joe - in fact that should be the #1 priority for the next 10-15 years.

I do too, even if it means letting Bates leave. Bates is going to be head and shoulders the highest FA to keep.
Imagine using that money to get a really good OL (or two).
I think there are comparative guys in Rd 1 or Rd 2 of the draft that can come in and perform at least somewhat close to Bates (Daxton Hill my guy).
With that said, there are a few guys in late Rd 1 that I do think could start and succeed at OL too.
Zion Johnson is my guy if Bengals go OL in Rd 1.
Would love that dude at RG.

[Whatever]

(02-10-2022, 10:05 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He put up 800 yds and 6 TD’s in 12 games this season. Even if you go in expecting him to miss at least a handful of games that’s still great production.

If we're being fair, CJ hasn't exactly been a picture of health during his career, either.  

I like CJ, but if we're going by production, PFF grade, or any other metric, he's a replacement level starter.  Gronk was 7th in receiving yards among TE's last year and 3rd in yards/game.  CJ was 20th and 25th in those categories. Gronk is a huge upgrade over CJ.   Obviously, the money has to be right, but since Gronk is probably looking for a 1 year deal, you can structure it like Reiff with a voidable year to significantly reduce his cap hit in '22.  

I really don't get the reluctance.  Gronk is still playing at a very high level. CJ is an UFA and far from a top tier player at his position.  If you want to be a dynasty, this is a move you make.  We can't just resign guys based on sentiment.  

[*ochocincos*]

(02-10-2022, 11:42 AM)Whatever Wrote: If we're being fair, CJ hasn't exactly been a picture of health during his career, either.  

I like CJ, but if we're going by production, PFF grade, or any other metric, he's a replacement level starter.  Gronk was 7th in receiving yards among TE's last year and 3rd in yards/game.  CJ was 20th and 25th in those categories. Gronk is a huge upgrade over CJ.   Obviously, the money has to be right, but since Gronk is probably looking for a 1 year deal, you can structure it like Reiff with a voidable year to significantly reduce his cap hit in '22.  

I really don't get the reluctance.  Gronk is still playing at a very high level. CJ is an UFA and far from a top tier player at his position.  If you want to be a dynasty, this is a move you make.  We can't just resign guys based on sentiment.  

CJ has emerged as a leader of the team, which has added to his value.
I personally had not seen him in that light until this year, but that's probably because there are more cameras in the locker room now showing his speeches.

With that said, something has to be said for the fact that Gronk's career YPC average is 15.0. 14.3 in the past two years with TB. Uzomah's career YPC is 9.8. His best as the primary starter for a full season is 10.2. Gronk should be a bigger factor on the field than Uzomah. No doubt about it.

[TecmoBengals]

(02-10-2022, 03:46 PM)ochocincos Wrote: CJ has emerged as a leader of the team, which has added to his value.
I personally had not seen him in that light until this year, but that's probably because there are more cameras in the locker room now showing his speeches.

With that said, something has to be said for the fact that Gronk's career YPC average is 15.0. 14.3 in the past two years with TB. Uzomah's career YPC is 9.8. His best as the primary starter for a full season is 10.2. Gronk should be a bigger factor on the field than Uzomah. No doubt about it.

If CJ is such a great a leader, then why did the Bengals only go 4-11-1 last year?

Just playing, I totally wanted to experience pretending my post has great importance because I provided numbers even if it is without meaningful narrative analysis. I thought it might be interesting to demonstrate an obstinate determination even if embarrassingly foolish.   

[casear2727]

(02-10-2022, 11:39 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I do too, even if it means letting Bates leave. Bates is going to be head and shoulders the highest FA to keep.
Imagine using that money to get a really good OL (or two).
I think there are comparative guys in Rd 1 or Rd 2 of the draft that can come in and perform at least somewhat close to Bates (Daxton Hill my guy).
With that said, there are a few guys in late Rd 1 that I do think could start and succeed at OL too.
Zion Johnson is my guy if Bengals go OL in Rd 1.
Would love that dude at RG.

We think alike.  If we let Bates walk this scenario could take place:


Sign a top OT:  Armstead or Brown Jr. ($16 - 19M). We could save money with Trent Brown, 28 (12M) or Germain Ifedi, 27 (7M)

Draft Zion to play RG, Spain (resign at $3-4M) & Carmen compete for LG

___________________________
Draft a Safety for the future.

Sign Safety Marcus Maye (Jets) ($6-8M) on a one year "prove I'm back flier" to groom the Rookie (Maye is an excellent Safety who was franchised tagged last year and tore his achilles).  Maye will want big money the following year, let him go.

___________________________
Sign a solid vet at Center:  Bradley Bozeman (Ravens) ($10M) only 27 years old could provide leadership as captain of the line and develop a great relationship with Joe.


$75M Cap Space (Current 58 + Waynes 11 + Hopkins 6)

17M Top OT (Armstead or Brown Jr)
9M  Bozeman (Center)
8M  BJ Hill
8M  CJ
7M  Maye (Safety)
6M  Apple
4M  Spain
3M  Huber/Harris
8M Rookie Pool

5M Balance

Draft Zion (Guard), CB, S, DT, OL

I think this is roster can make a solid run out of the gate.  Drop Maye after 1 year, frontend other deals so we are in great shape for Joe, Chase, Jonah, Tee, Lbers, etc in the next couple years.  2023 draft defense: high pick LB in case we cant afford to resign both Willson/Pratt, CB if we dont get a gem in this draft, DT for future. 

I truly believe this offseason is key for an excellent run the next 5-7 years, we were very lucky with some 50/50 guys this past FA, cant take too many chances this spring.

[BillsGuy1986]

As someone who has been tortured by Gronk for over a decade, you probably don't want him.

While he is in the top 5 TEs of all-time discussion, he is breaking down and likely too expensive. Let him ride off into the sunset to the Fast and Furious series.

[*ochocincos*]

(02-10-2022, 04:19 PM)casear2727 Wrote: We think alike.  If we let Bates walk this scenario could take place:


Sign a top OT:  Armstead or Brown Jr. ($16 - 19M). We could save money with Trent Brown, 28 (12M) or Germain Ifedi, 27 (7M)

Draft Zion to play RG, Spain (resign at $3-4M) & Carmen compete for LG

___________________________
Draft a Safety for the future.

Sign Safety Marcus Maye (Jets) ($6-8M) on a one year "prove I'm back flier" to groom the Rookie (Maye is an excellent Safety who was franchised tagged last year and tore his achilles).  Maye will want big money the following year, let him go.

___________________________
Sign a solid vet at Center:  Bradley Bozeman (Ravens) ($10M) only 27 years old could provide leadership as captain of the line and develop a great relationship with Joe.


$75M Cap Space (Current 58 + Waynes 11 + Hopkins 6)

17M Top OT (Armstead or Brown Jr)
9M  Bozeman (Center)
8M  BJ Hill
8M  CJ
7M  Maye (Safety)
6M  Apple
4M  Spain
3M  Huber/Harris
8M Rookie Pool

5M Balance

Draft Zion (Guard), CB, S, DT, OL

I think this is roster can make a solid run out of the gate.

A lot to like with that approach.

However, I do think:
1) Spain will get (and deserves) at least $5 mill. Maybe I'm overvaluing his contributions, but he's shown he can be a solid-or-better starting OG.
2) Hopkins is actually a better pass blocker than Spain, so if the goal is to upgrade pass blocking, it probably makes sense to keep Hopkins and get a better pass blocking OG.

It might be better to get someone like James Daniels to go with Zion Johnson. That'd be one hell of an OG tandem.

I personally think Ifedi is a solid OT, but some seem to think he is a downgrade. Given his likely cheaper price compared to Moses and even Reiff, I'd be ok with Ifedi as a consolation prize.

[casear2727]

(02-10-2022, 04:26 PM)ochocincos Wrote: A lot to like with that approach.

However, I do think:
1) Spain will get (and deserves) at least $5 mill. Maybe I'm overvaluing his contributions, but he's shown he can be a solid-or-better starting OG.
2) Hopkins is actually a better pass blocker than Spain, so if the goal is to upgrade pass blocking, it probably makes sense to keep Hopkins and get a better pass blocking OG.

It might be better to get someone like James Daniels to go with Zion Johnson. That'd be one hell of an OG tandem.

I personally think Ifedi is a solid OT, but some seem to think he is a downgrade. Given his likely cheaper price compared to Moses and even Reiff, I'd be ok with Ifedi as a consolation prize.

Good points.

My rebuttal to Spain would be that he has been serviceable.  Super Bowl runs definitely increase FA value, unless your position group is destroyed every single day in the media as being horrible.  Also, he signed a 3 year 5M contract with the Bills just a couple years ago and was cut before the 1st year ended.  He will be 31 and there are at least 8 good G FAs this free season... I think we get value.

Daniels is a 10M year guy and only 24. Zion & Daniels would be great, but where does that leave Carmen? (Mike Brown's personal pick (grrr))

I am just not a Hopkins fan in any way. Im a big believer in having a very solid Center that can Captain the line. All great QBs had one.  This offseason is the ONLY time we could get value for him.  

Having Daniels and Zion would lessen my concern of Hopkins for his last season.  Reiff didnt do as great as we think, although it was still better than what Prince has shown.  So I'd be ok with any of the other guys mentioned.  We have options, so there is no reason to have an obvious weak spot on the line next season.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-10-2022, 12:30 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I keep seeing this, but who believes if we signed Gronk we would be prevented from signing 1 hopefully 2 good FA olinemen?

Also he isnt that old in fact he is the same age as Kelce, considered the best TE in the league...

As a fan I would be super elated to acquire Gronk at good price and healthy.   But as long as we address C, RG, and RT via FA (2 min) and the draft (2 min), I'll be satisfied.

Didn't know Gronk is the same age as Kelce, this blew my mind.

And yes, we should still be able to sign 2 good FA O-lineman even if we got Gronk.

The contract would have to have stipulations about injury as Gronk rarely plays an entire season.

(02-10-2022, 10:07 AM)TecmoBengals Wrote:

I agree, it's why you sign him if the price is right. It would be wonderful to have both CJ & Gronk as options for the offense.

Yeah, yeah yeah...

[casear2727]

(02-10-2022, 06:36 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Didn't know Gronk is the same age as Kelce, this blew my mind.

And yes, we should still be able to sign 2 good FA O-lineman even if we got Gronk.

The contract would have to have stipulations about injury as Gronk rarely plays an entire season.


Yeah, yeah yeah...

Not sure an injury clause is legal is it? 

Gronk would be fun, however I do agree that signing the absolute best oline we can afford to keep along with our young stars in the future is definitely the priority.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-10-2022, 06:50 PM)casear2727 Wrote: Not sure an injury clause is legal is it? 

Gronk would be fun, however I do agree that signing the absolute best oline we can afford to keep along with our young stars in the future is definitely the priority.

I have heard of stipulations in case a player with injury history doesn't play it doesn't cost the team as much.

I guess you could call it a injury clause but that might be the illegal term for it, I don't know honestly.

We can all agree on the priority, that is the OL being shored up with proven FA's to free up the Draft.