Zac got robbed

[basballguy]

(02-11-2022, 02:38 PM)Tony Wrote: Julio Jones and Bud Dupree are losing talent? Come on man.. Be serious...

I think it's time to give up the argument.  I also thought ZT should've had a better shot at the award until I took off my blinders and listened to all the counterpoints.  :)

[*PhilHos*]

(02-11-2022, 02:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: All I know is that if you improve by adding more talented players and keeping the same coach it is only logical to assume the talented players had a big part in the improvement.

So if the coach is the one that brings in new player, the coach gets no credit? 

Also, if a team historically rarely brings in a slew of new players via free agency, but does it in 2 back-to-back offsesasons under one particular coach, wouldn't you be inclined to give said coach credit for convincing the team to use free agency aggressively?

[*Nately120*]

(02-11-2022, 02:12 PM)Tony Wrote: Everyone forgets Zac was in the top 3 coaches on the hot seat too. Look where he is now...

ZT is Chuck Noll and we are the 1970s Steelers.  Gotta believe the numbers.  

[*PhilHos*]

(02-11-2022, 02:40 PM)basballguy Wrote: I think it's time to give up the argument.  I also thought ZT should've had a better shot at the award until I took off my blinders and listened to all the counterpoints.  :)

I don't have a problem with anyone who thinks Vrable or someone else was more deserving of COY. I do have a problem with someone thinking the head coach has no input on bringing in free agents or drafting players or improving the team however in the offseason.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-11-2022, 02:42 PM)PhilHos Wrote: So if the coach is the one that brings in new player, the coach gets no credit? 

Also, if a team historically rarely brings in a slew of new players via free agency, but does it in 2 back-to-back offsesasons under one particular coach, wouldn't you be inclined to give said coach credit for convincing the team to use free agency aggressively?

Of course you give him some credit. Only Fred or some of these others wouldn't...

For Zac to only get 2 votes on this panel shows it is bogus. But it was before the Playoffs which needs to change.

[fredtoast]

(02-11-2022, 02:42 PM)PhilHos Wrote: So if the coach is the one that brings in new player, the coach gets no credit? 

I would have to know how much input the coach had in any of those decisions.

(02-11-2022, 02:42 PM)PhilHos Wrote: Also, if a team historically rarely brings in a slew of new players via free agency, but does it in 2 back-to-back offsesasons under one particular coach, wouldn't you be inclined to give said coach credit for convincing the team to use free agency aggressively?

Not if the owner was forced to do it because his stadium was empty.


If it was all because of Zac then we would have signed a bunch of top free agents before the 2019 season.

[fredtoast]

(02-11-2022, 02:53 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Of course you give him some credit. Only Fred or some of these others wouldn't...

Why did Zac think he could win in 2019 without any big name free agents?  Did he really think that roster was that good?

[Bengalstripes9]

(02-11-2022, 01:46 PM)Tony Wrote: Someone always has to be this guy.....

(02-11-2022, 01:49 PM)Tony Wrote: Even the regular season. Titans were suppose to be a super bowl contender and the Bengals in the basement again.. Make it make sense..

(02-11-2022, 01:51 PM)Tony Wrote: They got the 1 seed because of Zac and the Bengals...

You’re all wound up over nothing. That’s all I’m saying here. Who cares about this meaningless award? They screw it up every year.

Your last statement shows that your point of view is through orange tinted glasses. There are plenty of deserving coaches every year. Who cares who wins? Championships are all that matters. The real question is how good is the game plan on Sunday?

[Bengalstripes9]

Bill belichick has only won the award 3 times despite bringing home 6 Lombardi trophies. This just shows how meaningless the award is.

Look at Brady’s mvps vs super bowl wins. The mvp is meaningless too. It’s just a way of spreading the honor around to the regular season performers.

[*Nately120*]

ZT went from being the worst HC to the best. Burrow is the biggest confounding variable of them all. If Burrow were abducted by aliens tomorrow I sincerely doubt the new era Bengals dynasty doesn't go with him, but meh...we will never know.

ZT could very well be the football equivalent to Pete Best if he didn't get replaced by Ringo.

[fredtoast]

(02-11-2022, 02:10 PM)Tony Wrote: It is when your are in the AFC south...

Not when you are playing a Division Champions Schedule instead of a last place schedule.

Titans led the entire league in games against teams with winning records (11), wins against teams with winning records (8), and winning percentage against teams with winning records (.727)

Bengals only had 4 wins against teams with winning records.  Half as many as the Titans

[*PhilHos*]

(02-11-2022, 02:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I would have to know how much input the coach had in any of those decisions.

So you honestly think there's a possibility the coach had 0 input? So, you'd rather appear stupid than admit you're wrong? 

(02-11-2022, 02:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not if the owner was forced to do it because his stadium was empty.

This might be a valid point if "the owner" had made similar free agent splashes any of the 30 other offseasons prior to 2019 of Mike Brown being  "the owner".

(02-11-2022, 02:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If it was all because of Zac then we would have signed a bunch of top free agents before the 2019 season.

Right because it's not possible that Zac was hired later than any other head coach, that it took him far too long to find a DC, and maybe he wanted to evaluate the current roster before making any major moves or a myriad other or other reasons. Nope. Mike Brown just decided out of nowhere to wait until after 32 years of being "the owner" before deciding to finally take advantage of free agency and signing a plethora of quality free agents.

[higgy100]

(02-11-2022, 03:14 PM)PhilHos Wrote: So you honestly think there's a possibility the coach had 0 input? So, you'd rather appear stupid than admit you're wrong? 



This might be a valid point if "the owner" had made similar free agent splashes any of the 30 other offseasons prior to 2019 of Mike Brown being  "the owner".


Right because it's not possible that Zac was hired later than any other head coach, that it took him far too long to find a DC, and maybe he wanted to evaluate the current roster before making any major moves or a myriad other or other reasons. Nope. Mike Brown just decided out of nowhere to wait until after 32 years of being "the owner" before deciding to finally take advantage of free agency and signing a plethora of quality free agents.

You're arguing against a guy that would tell you there are places right now outside in Ohio where it would be quite very comfortable to lay out by a pool and tan.

[fredtoast]

(02-11-2022, 03:14 PM)PhilHos Wrote: So you honestly think there's a possibility the coach had 0 input? So, you'd rather appear stupid than admit you're wrong? 

All I said was that I do not know how much input he had.  Since you know tell me your source and exactly how much input Zac had.  Did he get all of the exact players that he wanted?  If not which ones did he want that he did not get?  and did the Bengals sign any players that he did not want?  If so which ones?

(02-11-2022, 03:14 PM)PhilHos Wrote: This might be a valid point if "the owner" had made similar free agent splashes any of the 30 other offseasons prior to 2019 of Mike Brown being  "the owner".

It is a valid when 2019 had a record low attendance at PBS.

It is valid when 2019 set al all-time team record for fewest wins.

(02-11-2022, 03:14 PM)PhilHos Wrote:  Mike Brown just decided out of nowhere to wait until after 32 years of being "the owner" before deciding to finally take advantage of free agency and signing a plethora of quality free agents.

It is not "out of nowhere" when 2019 was a record breaking season in both low attendance and wins.  Mike Brown thought the excitement over a new coach would be enough to boost ticket sales, but he was wrong.

And If Zac Taylor was too stupid to see any holes in the 2019 roster that could be addresses in free agency then he does not deserve to be an NFL head coach

[Tony]

(02-11-2022, 02:46 PM)PhilHos Wrote: I don't have a problem with anyone who thinks Vrable or someone else was more deserving of COY. I do have a problem with someone thinking the head coach has no input on bringing in free agents or drafting players or improving the team however in the offseason.

Is this guy happy with anything the Bengals do? There is always someone better to him no matter what. Especially if they are a former player or coach who has moved on...

[Tony]

(02-11-2022, 03:01 PM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: You’re all wound up over nothing. That’s all I’m saying here. Who cares about this meaningless award? They screw it up every year.

Your last statement shows that your point of view is through orange tinted glasses. There are plenty of deserving coaches every year. Who cares who wins? Championships are all that matters. The real question is how good is the game plan on Sunday?

I'm just killing time until Sunday....

[Tony]

(02-11-2022, 03:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: All I said was that I do not know how much input he had.  Since you know tell me your source and exactly how much input Zac had.  Did he get all of the exact players that he wanted?  If not which ones did he want that he did not get?  and did the Bengals sign any players that he did not want?  If so which ones?




It is a valid when 2019 had a record low attendance at PBS.

It is valid when 2019 set al all-time team record for fewest wins.



It is not "out of nowhere" when 2019 was a record breaking season in both low attendance and wins.  Mike Brown thought the excitement over a new coach would be enough to boost ticket sales, but he was wrong.

And If Zac Taylor was too stupid to see any holes in the 2019 roster that could be addresses in free agency then he does not deserve to be an NFL head coach

I know Zac had input on the draft. He asked Burrow personally about Jamaar. So it's safe to say he had a say in free agency too. 

[Tony]

(02-11-2022, 03:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: All I said was that I do not know how much input he had.  Since you know tell me your source and exactly how much input Zac had.  Did he get all of the exact players that he wanted?  If not which ones did he want that he did not get?  and did the Bengals sign any players that he did not want?  If so which ones?




It is a valid when 2019 had a record low attendance at PBS.

It is valid when 2019 set al all-time team record for fewest wins.



It is not "out of nowhere" when 2019 was a record breaking season in both low attendance and wins.  Mike Brown thought the excitement over a new coach would be enough to boost ticket sales, but he was wrong.

And If Zac Taylor was too stupid to see any holes in the 2019 roster that could be addresses in free agency then he does not deserve to be an NFL head coach

2019 was your Boy Marvin's team. What did you expect with all the aging players and high contracts. His hands were tied until he could turn the roster over. Kinda crazy to expect excellence in a coaches first year with an old aging roster..

[*Nately120*]

(02-11-2022, 03:45 PM)Tony Wrote: 2019 was your Boy Marvin's team. What did you expect with all the aging players and high contracts. His hands were tied until he could turn the roster over. Kinda crazy to expect excellence in a coaches first year with an old aging roster..

I expected more than 2 wins.  Apparently everyone else knew we had an 0-16 team that year.  

[Tony]

(02-11-2022, 03:47 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I expected more than 2 wins.  Apparently everyone else knew we had an 0-16 team that year.  

I didn't that team was busted and broken with old over payed malcontents... Dalton was on the downside of an average at best career too...