Zac got robbed

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-11-2022, 02:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Why did Zac think he could win in 2019 without any big name free agents?  Did he really think that roster was that good?

He also really didn't have much time to prepare for FA in 2019 coming right off the big game, picking his entire coaching staff etc.

We have seen him just steadily improve in all areas as he has had time to learn. We should give him some credit for all he has done.

Something Marvin Lewis couldn't ever do, he has won 3 Playoff games and 2 on the road which has never been done by any Bengals
Head Coach. However it has happened Zac Taylor deserves some credit in these FA's that were brought in the last couple years. DJ 
Reader, Von Bell, Quinton Spain, Trey Hendrickson, Awuzie, Hilton, Ogunjobi, the BJ Hill trade, Reiff, Apple, while adding competent 
coaches in Pollack, Hobby, Golden, Walters... we have been the least penalized team in the NFL to boot...

All these things are a big deal and I cannot help to believe that it has happened because Zac Taylor is young and can learn.

[*Nately120*]

(02-11-2022, 03:52 PM)Tony Wrote: I didn't that team was busted and broken with old over payed malcontents... Dalton was on the downside of an average at best career too...

Yeah but Marvin was getting 6 wins out of them with Jeff Driskel.  It's hindsight to think the 2019 was a lock for the 1st overall pick, isn't it?

The optimistic take was that ZT was going to use Ross correctly and get Dalton back to 2015 form.  After a week 1 loss in Seattle we were pretty optimistic we'd at least improve on our prior 6 wins. 

The idea that 2019 was an obvious wasted year that didn't count didn't come in until later.  Just my take.  

[Tony]

(02-11-2022, 03:59 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Yeah but Marvin was getting 6 wins out of them with Jeff Driskel.  It's hindsight to think the 2019 was a lock for the 1st overall pick, isn't it?

The optimistic take was that ZT was going to use Ross correctly and get Dalton back to 2015 form.  After a week 1 loss in Seattle we were pretty optimistic we'd at least improve on our prior 6 wins. 

The idea that 2019 was an obvious wasted year that didn't count didn't come in until later.  Just my take.  

Thank God they did suck.. We drafted the franchise saviour... My favorite 2-14 season ever. I was screaming to Lose games like the Dolphins 1.. I knew what Burrow was..

[*Nately120*]

(02-11-2022, 04:03 PM)Tony Wrote: Thank God they did suck.. We drafted the franchise saviour... My favorite 2-14 season ever. I was screaming to Lose games like the Dolphins 1.. I knew what Burrow was..

Agreed,  Hell, I'll do you one better and say that Burrow is such a franchise savior that he can carry a HC who managed to out suck guys like Adam Gase, Matt Patricia, and Freddie Kitchens.


Anyways, this is all moot.  As long as no game ZT plays without Burrow counts against him, he'll go down as one of the best HCs in NFL history. 

[Tony]

You do have a point. Look at Bill B without Brady..

[fredtoast]

(02-11-2022, 03:54 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: He also really didn't have much time to prepare for FA in 2019 coming right off the big game, picking his entire coaching staff etc.

I don't know why people keep trying to make this point.

New head coaches get hired off Super Bowl staffs all the time.  In fact I would bet that Super Bowl teams are more likely to lose coaches to other jobs than any other team.

Plus one or two weeks does not make that big of a difference when it is a couple of months before free agency starts and 3 months before the draft.

[*Nately120*]

(02-11-2022, 04:14 PM)Tony Wrote: You do have a point. Look at Bill B without Brady..

Bill Bellyache has 2 rings as a DC and managed to make the playoffs with a QB who isn't Burrow/Brady this year and he made a SB with a QB who isn't Burrow or Brady in 1996...he's good at least.  ZT....ehh, who knows. 

This thread is based around Vrabel getting the award.  Who'd you rather have?  Vrabel and Burrow or ZT and Tannehill?  Man, I bet there is a parallel dimension where ZT and Tannehill stayed in Miami and he's their HC.  I bet they aren't in the SB.


EDIT - Parcells was the HC in NE when they made the SB, my bad...them old days! Bill Bellyache was an assistant, though.

[fredtoast]

(02-11-2022, 03:59 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Yeah but Marvin was getting 6 wins out of them with Jeff Driskel.  It's hindsight to think the 2019 was a lock for the 1st overall pick, isn't it?

Actually by the beginning of the 2019 season it was looking pretty grim.

Boling had retired.
Burfict had been released.
Green had not recovered from his injury.
Cordy Glenn was not playing.
#1 pick Jonah Williams was out for the year.

Then CBs Dennard, Kirkpatrick, and Jackson all go down with injury.

It was not the same roster that Marvin had gotten 6 wins with.

[*PhilHos*]

(02-11-2022, 03:34 PM)fredtoast Wrote: It is a valid when 2019 had a record low attendance at PBS.

It is valid when 2019 set al all-time team record for fewest wins.



It is not "out of nowhere" when 2019 was a record breaking season in both low attendance and wins.  Mike Brown thought the excitement over a new coach would be enough to boost ticket sales, but he was wrong.

2010 we had 4 wins and total attendance that was only 17,000 people higher than 2019's "record low" - 394,000 vs 377,000 (according to https://www.statista.com/statistics/197354/nfl-regular-season-home-attendance-of-the-cincinnati-bengals-since-2006/ ) Where was all the free agents signed by Mike Brown since the team had a really bad record and what was, at the time, a record low in attendance?

[*Nately120*]

(02-11-2022, 04:23 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Actually by the beginning of the 2019 season it was looking pretty grim.

Boling had retired.
Burfict had been released.
Green had not recovered from his injury.
Cordy Glenn was not playing.
#1 pick Jonah Williams was out for the year.

It was not the same roster that Marvin had gotten 6 wins with.

And you and I were probably trying to tell the people who were saying that there was "no way this team could do worse than they didn't with Marvin" to brace themselves.  Wacky.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-11-2022, 04:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't know why people keep trying to make this point.

New head coaches get hired off Super Bowl staffs all the time.  In fact I would bet that Super Bowl teams are more likely to lose coaches to other jobs than any other team.

Plus one or two weeks does not make that big of a difference when it is a couple of months before free agency starts and 3 months before the draft.

It definitely makes a difference, there would be more coaches to pick from if he wasn't that late to the party as Bengals HC.

Oh well, things are great now and that is all that matters.

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-11-2022, 11:05 AM)JaggedJimmyJay Wrote: They set an NFL record for the number of players they had to field during the season due to injuries and covid.

I don't really feel sorry for a lot of the players that missed due to covid.  I think a lot of guys just turned down the vax and/or made a lot of questionable decisions off the field.  One of the amazing stats this season is how the Bengals avoided it.  I thought it was funny when Joe said (what I believed to be sarcastically) that there isn't a lot to do in Cincinnati.  The reality is, they made smart decisions as a team.

Not saying it is 100% avoidable, but you can sure improve your odds staying out of night clubs, etc.  

[jfkbengals]

The votes were submitted well before the Super Bowl.

Pat Kirwan mentioned on Sirius that if the vote happened after the Conference Championship round, he would have voted for Taylor hands down, but his vote had long been submitted, as were the rest. And I think he knew the result and let the cat out of the bag a little bit, because he stated that up to the point the votes were due, there was no better candidate than Vrabel. This was said over a week ago.

[TheCincinnatiKid]

(02-11-2022, 08:43 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: But they did though. Their defense was lights out - including 9 sacks. They held us to only 1 Mixon TD, and one long play by Chase. On offense AJ Brown went off for
142 yards and a TD (think he was the only WR besides Adams to go over 100 on us all season). The difference was Tannehill turning the ball over 3x. Which isn’t really on the coaching.

I didn't say anything was on the coaching, I just said they didn't play very well against us. Ultimately, the coach is responsible for the performances (even if that isn't always fair).

Elements did sure. Defensive line played great absolutely. Couldn't cover the pass at all though. Sure one long play on Chase, but also gave up 300+ to Burrow and his atrocious O-Line.

AJ Brown had a bunch of yards sure, but they were on like 3 plays? He obviously made those plays, but watching the game I never felt like he had a day against us. Felt more like his game was a case of stats looking better than the performance, but sure, can concede on this point. Just felt like he was only a factor in very small doses.

A pick on the first play of the game, when you have Derrick Henry back... sure 'element of surprise and all that', but you give the RB the ball. Silly playcall.

If it hadn't have been for a very fortuitous INT, the Titans would've have put a TD on us. At home, as the #1 seed. 

But yes I would agree Tannehill's picks were ultimately the difference in the game. 

[TheFan]

(02-11-2022, 12:25 AM)Tony Wrote: 100% agree.. Zac out coached this fool when it mattered most... 9 sacks an Vrabel couldn't get it done still.  The stupid 2 point try. Horrible  calls on 3rd and 4th down.

Having a good QB also makes a big difference. Do you think we win that game if the QB situation is reversed? I definitely don't. Vrabel also was a huge part of the reason they got 9 sacks. 

I think Zac was deserving but to say Vrabel wasn't is silly. Also, did you use losing to the Jets and Texans as reason he shouldn't have won as if we didn't lose to the same Jets and a woeful bears team?

[Tony]

(02-12-2022, 03:03 PM)TheFan Wrote: Having a good QB also makes a big difference. Do you think we win that game if the QB situation is reversed? I definitely don't. Vrabel also was a huge part of the reason they got 9 sacks. 

I think Zac was deserving but to say Vrabel wasn't is silly. Also, did you use losing to the Jets and Texans as reason he shouldn't have won as if we didn't lose to the same Jets and a woeful bears team?

Go be a Titan and Vrabel fan then.. Vrabel is overrated...

[fredtoast]

(02-11-2022, 04:25 PM)PhilHos Wrote: 2010 we had 4 wins and total attendance that was only 17,000 people higher than 2019's "record low" - 394,000 vs 377,000 (according to https://www.statista.com/statistics/197354/nfl-regular-season-home-attendance-of-the-cincinnati-bengals-since-2006/ ) Where was all the free agents signed by Mike Brown since the team had a really bad record and what was, at the time, a record low in attendance?

In 2010 we drew 482K.

I don't think you read your chart correctly.

[fredtoast]

(02-11-2022, 03:45 PM)Tony Wrote: 2019 was your Boy Marvin's team. What did you expect with all the aging players and high contracts. His hands were tied until he could turn the roster over. Kinda crazy to expect excellence in a coaches first year with an old aging roster..

So he is on complete control of personnel decisions but at the same time his hands were tied?

Bengals had $12 million in unused cap space that year.  Could have freed up another $23 million by getting rid of Dalton and Cordy Glenn.

Atkins and Dunlap were the only other players making more than $6 million, but at 30 and 31 they were still in their prime coming off a season where they had 18 sacks, 40 QB hits and 21 TFL.

[Destro]

(02-11-2022, 04:18 PM)Nately120 Wrote: This thread is based around Vrabel getting the award.  Who'd you rather have?  Vrabel and Burrow or ZT and Tannehill?  Man, I bet there is a parallel dimension where ZT and Tannehill stayed in Miami and he's their HC.  I bet they aren't in the SB.

This. Not like the Bengals were full of a bunch of back-ups and "who is he" guys. Worst player on the team left with injury after winning fuff-a-thon returning kicks. Bengals get success with half the coaches in the league. And that whole Taylor beat Vrabel makes him better schtick is bushes. Then the Jets, Bears and Browns outcoached us, too. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-11-2022, 11:05 AM)JaggedJimmyJay Wrote: They set an NFL record for the number of players they had to field during the season due to injuries and covid.

.....and the Bengals set a record by only winning 6 games in two years and going to the dance in year three.