Marvin vs. Zac (Big games)

[Phil in BG]

Was anyone else nervous about the playoff games remembering our history during the Marvin Lewis years? We were never ready for the big games, Thursday night, Sunday night, Monday night or playoffs. The 2015 season we almost got over the hump and then "the fumble" by Jeremy Hill.

Now it's taking a while to get over, but this team prepares and is just the opposite. They are ready and step up when it's a big game. They aren't too tight. They're just prepared. Is it coaching style? Zac? Joe Burrow? I think it's Zac's positive coaching style and them getting the right players that have been there before.

Marvin's teams almost never made proper adjustments at half time. Zac's teams almost always make adjustments to correct the first half problems.

[Whatever]

(02-11-2022, 05:43 PM)Phil in BG Wrote: Was anyone else nervous about the playoff games remembering our history during the Marvin Lewis years? We were never ready for the big games, Thursday night, Sunday night, Monday night or playoffs. The 2015 season we almost got over the hump and then "the fumble" by Jeremy Hill.

Now it's taking a while to get over, but this team prepares and is just the opposite. They are ready and step up when it's a big game. They aren't too tight. They're just prepared. Is it coaching style? Zac? Joe Burrow? I think it's Zac's positive coaching style and them getting the right players that have been there before.

Zac kind of shook the "can't win big games" stigma with me when we stomped the Steelers on MNF with Finley at QB.  

[Phil in BG]

(02-11-2022, 06:20 PM)Whatever Wrote: Zac kind of shook the "can't win big games" stigma with me when we stomped the Steelers on MNF with Finley at QB.  

It's taking me a minute to get rid of the expectation of failure in a big game.

[Soonerpeace]

Zac is very business like yet very much a players coach. He’s got a long way to go. But interesting today how many players are saying they’ve had their best practices of the year. Zac has many more years to prove himself even if he wins Sunday. Not that he’s not a good coach but just how good.

Zac learned organization from his FIL Mike Sherman. Sherman has been said often times as being one of the most organized in the NFL. R C Slocum the old Texas A&M coach had him on his staff way back. He said to me nobody could be more organized. He learned a ton on offense from McVay and how to relate with players. What he lacked was play calling experience and situational experience but he’s come a long way there. But I don’t think he gets enough credit for his vision building this team. He did that on his own. I’m not saying Duke Tobin or his assistants weren’t huge at all. I’m not saying he didn’t have a ton of help. I’m saying where he wanted the end result to be that he zeroed in on the culture and makeup.

[*Awful Llama*]

The playoffs are an entirely different animal from the regular season, so beating KC to clinch the North was great, but I was still concerned about the playoffs. Honestly, the Raider game was the most nervous I've been of the three playoff games. I just dreaded watching them lose yet another playoff game with me in attendance. I just knew that if they could just get over that damn 31-year hump, it would be downhill from there.

[Soonerpeace]

https://www.cincyjungle.com/2022/2/11/22928781/ken-anderson-bengals-turning-point-zac-taylor-london-los-angeles-rams-news

Interesting quote from Ken Anderson today. Talking about Zac’s first year and their trip to London.
“ I mean, I’ve been on good teams where you go through something like that and just go through the motions of a practice just to get it over with,” he continued. “It was one of the most spirited, well-executed practices I’ve ever seen. I said: ‘These guys buy into what Zac Taylor is saying.’ He’s got the pulse of this team, he’s created a culture and I think the players contribute to that culture. I said they hold each other accountable...so that locker room is a good locker room, and they have great leadership.”

[J24]

I hate that we always have to bash Marvin to make Zac look Good.

1.) Zac doesn't need it Dude has proven himself beyond a doubt.
2.) Marvin lead this team to relevance and quite Frankly made this organization respectable. IDK if the Bengals are still in Cincinnati if it weren't for Marvin.

As for the primetime/Playoff game narrative- The Biggest thing to me is this team doesn't know any better and isn't playing with the albatross of those disasters in their mind.

[fredtoast]

(02-11-2022, 06:31 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote:  I’m saying where he wanted the end result to be that he zeroed in on the culture and makeup.

Not bashing Zac, but we don't even know how much say he had in the draft picks and free agent signings.  Obviously, his opinion counted, but did he really have much say on exactly what player we picked or signed?

[Bengalholic]

(02-11-2022, 07:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not bashing Zac, but we don't even know how much say he had in the draft picks and free agent signings.  Obviously, his opinion counted, but did he really have much say on exactly what player we picked or signed?

Mike stated that 'they turned the keys over' to Zac. 

Look at the free agency approach before he got here, and since.

[fredtoast]

(02-11-2022, 07:35 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Mike stated that 'they turned the keys over' to Zac. 

Look at the free agency approach prior to Zac, and then with Zac.

Guess I missed that.  do you have a link?  I'd like to see when he said that.  I mean, Zac obviously did not "have the keys" to free agency until at least the '20 season.

[*Go Cards*]

Marvin was a great coach but fell in love with talent and often overlooked bad character which came to haunt him when he had finally won a playoff game against the steelers only to watch dumb and dumber mess it up.

Believe Zac's change the culture is the biggest difference.

I believe Zac had a lot to do with players drafted as well, you can look back at the Bengals good and bad drafts and see its when one coach was hired or one left.

Gruden seemed to be the last one bringing in good talent until Zac imo. If its Duke then he is very hot and cold with absolutely no consistency which I do not believe is the case.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-11-2022, 05:43 PM)Phil in BG Wrote: Was anyone else nervous about the playoff games remembering our history during the Marvin Lewis years? We were never ready for the big games, Thursday night, Sunday night, Monday night or playoffs. The 2015 season we almost got over the hump and then "the fumble" by Jeremy Hill.

Now it's taking a while to get over, but this team prepares and is just the opposite. They are ready and step up when it's a big game. They aren't too tight. They're just prepared. Is it coaching style? Zac? Joe Burrow? I think it's Zac's positive coaching style and them getting the right players that have been there before.

Marvin's teams almost never made proper adjustments at half time. Zac's teams almost always make adjustments to correct the first half problems.

Zac just has fun out there, was just smiling and having a good time while we came back and beat the Chiefs lol

We aren't phased by the big stage anymore, maybe this has to do with Joe Burrow with how cool he is before the game.

Keeps everyone low key and focused.

[casear2727]

(02-11-2022, 07:35 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Mike stated that 'they turned the keys over' to Zac. 

Look at the free agency approach before he got here, and since.

Zac has said that MB approved the Chase pick and it’s no secret MB was the one who wanted Carmen…. Didn’t like it then and still don’t but hoping he can get it together to be force for a long time.

[J24]

(02-11-2022, 07:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not bashing Zac, but we don't even know how much say he had in the draft picks and free agent signings.  Obviously, his opinion counted, but did he really have much say on exactly what player we picked or signed?

(02-11-2022, 07:35 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Mike stated that 'they turned the keys over' to Zac. 

Look at the free agency approach before he got here, and since.

Of Course Zac has had his say in the way this team is run. The reason why this team is where it is. Is because the Front Office and coaching Staff are on the same page.

[casear2727]

(02-11-2022, 07:35 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Mike stated that 'they turned the keys over' to Zac. 

Look at the free agency approach before he got here, and since.

The players association demanding a minimum salary spend a couple years ago may have had an impact on our FA aggressiveness, although I have no doubt Katie and others have been for it for quite some time.

[Tony]

(02-11-2022, 06:28 PM)Phil in BG Wrote: It's taking me a minute to get rid of the expectation of failure in a big game.

The only thing Marvin ever gave us is big game / playoff PTSD....

[Soonerpeace]

(02-11-2022, 07:29 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not bashing Zac, but we don't even know how much say he had in the draft picks and free agent signings.  Obviously, his opinion counted, but did he really have much say on exactly what player we picked or signed?

I know a key person at Cincy. Zac had tremendous say in the draft and FA. It’s a 3 way decision between Mike, Zac, and Duke on the first pick. After that it’s probably 50/50 between the two. Zac has a lot of trust in Duke and his department. They do exhaustive work. But make no mistake he tells Duke to bring him captains, team leaders, and players from winning programs when possible. That was Zac. It’s very obvious if you look at who was drafted prior to Zac that was not the case. From winning programs was not as important as team captains or players with extremely high character and work effort. This team he’s constructed goes to work.

[Tony]

(02-11-2022, 07:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Guess I missed that.  do you have a link?  I'd like to see when he said that.  I mean, Zac obviously did not "have the keys" to free agency until at least the '20 season.

Marvin is gone and he was as average as it gets and as bad as it gets in the playoffs. Get over it...

[*Nately120*]

(02-11-2022, 07:52 PM)Tony Wrote: Marvin is gone and he was as average as it gets and as bad as it gets in the playoffs. Get over it...

Do you honestly think Burrow would go 0-7 in the playoffs if Marvin were his HC?

[Tony]

(02-11-2022, 07:42 PM)Go Cards Wrote: Marvin was a great coach but fell in love with talent and often overlooked bad character which came to haunt him when he had finally won a playoff game against the steelers only to watch dumb and dumber mess it up.

Believe Zac's change the culture is the biggest difference.

I believe Zac had a lot to do with players drafted as well, you can look back at the Bengals good and bad drafts and see its when one coach was hired or one left.  

Gruden seemed to be the last one bringing in good talent until Zac imo. If its Duke then he is very hot and cold with absolutely no consistency which I do not believe is the case.

The only thing I appreciate that Marvin did was Vontaze Burfict. Seeing him cripple stealer after stealer was satisfying...