Marvin vs. Zac (Big games)

[Tony]

(02-11-2022, 07:55 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Do you honestly think Burrow would go 0-7 in the playoffs if Marvin were his HC?

Yea probably.. Even Joe can only make up for so much... Marvin couldn't make a 2nd half adjustment to save his life. He even said they didn't even exist... Marvin's defenses sucked bad in the playoffs..

[Benton]

(02-11-2022, 07:45 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Zac just has fun out there, was just smiling and having a good time while we came back and beat the Chiefs lol

We aren't phased by the big stage anymore, maybe this has to do with Joe Burrow with how cool he is before the game.

Keeps everyone low key and focused.

Yeah, that's the thing for me. We get rolling, he looks like somebody's goofy dad at a rec league soccer game. Down by a score? He's still just cheering and smiling. 

That's when wins come. When guys buy into a program and everybody's on the same page, when they've got that trust that, yeah, they made a bad play but it's not the end of the world because everybody else is going to step up on the next chance to make it right. That helps on so many different levels, both from results on the field to attracting and retaining talent.

This is going to sound kinda dumb with the SB a few days away, but as excited as I am for it, I'm excited to see if that locker room growth is going to help with the team building. Players talk. With the positive atmosphere, you really could see some free agents you never thought of wanting to come here. And not just to get a couple big checks and spend the whole time on IR.

[Benton]

(02-11-2022, 07:55 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Do you honestly think Burrow would go 0-7 in the playoffs if Marvin were his HC?

I think with the line we have and the hits Burrow was taking, Marvin wouldn't have let Joe play like he did. And if he didn't, we wouldn't have won some of those games.

[*Nately120*]

(02-11-2022, 08:27 PM)Benton Wrote: I think with the line we have and the hits Burrow was taking, Marvin wouldn't have let Joe play like he did. And if he didn't, we wouldn't have won some of those games.

Well, this is the thing about debating history...it's neither testable nor repeatable so you can never know for sure.  

[TheCincinnatiKid]

We were a running joke in primetime under Marv. We're going to the Superbowl under Zac. We beat a good Steelers team in primetime with Finley at QB with Zac.

Extending the topic a little bit to who the better coach is though... im not convinced yet that Zac is. I don't really know how much of this season I attribute to Zac, as I think Burrow is the transcending factor. But Joe loves Zac, so maybe I'm just flatout wrong.

I definitely don't think Marv would've gone 0-7 had he had Burrow. But you see it all the time in sports... there are always guys/teams who cant get over the hump. Marv was clearly a good coach and great coordinator. But never took us past a certain point.

[M.W.]

Marvin had some really good teams and couldn't get over the prime time or playoff hump. The offense lines were pretty much always good to really good, good to really good RBs, really good WR. Marvin was a defensive genius who really couldn't build a good defense (for most years). No half time adjustments, always losing after the bye week....

Zac - in year 3 has his team in the Super Bowl!!!!! Makes great halftime adjustments and obviously wins HUGE games...

Marvin still doesn't have a job in football btw....

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-11-2022, 08:25 PM)Benton Wrote: Yeah, that's the thing for me. We get rolling, he looks like somebody's goofy dad at a rec league soccer game. Down by a score? He's still just cheering and smiling. 

That's when wins come. When guys buy into a program and everybody's on the same page, when they've got that trust that, yeah, they made a bad play but it's not the end of the world because everybody else is going to step up on the next chance to make it right. That helps on so many different levels, both from results on the field to attracting and retaining talent.

This is going to sound kinda dumb with the SB a few days away, but as excited as I am for it, I'm excited to see if that locker room growth is going to help with the team building. Players talk. With the positive atmosphere, you really could see some free agents you never thought of wanting to come here. And not just to get a couple big checks and spend the whole time on IR.

It is a really cool thing they have been building and we are starting to see it come to fruition as Burrow says.

Will be a fun ride and like you said there will be some big name players out there that will want to get aboard.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(02-12-2022, 03:37 PM)M.W. Wrote: Marvin had some really good teams and couldn't get over the prime time or playoff hump.  The offense lines were pretty much always good to really good, good to really good RBs, really good WR.  Marvin was a defensive genius who really couldn't build a good defense (for most years).  No half time adjustments, always losing after the bye week....

Zac - in year 3 has his team in the Super Bowl!!!!! Makes great halftime adjustments and obviously wins HUGE games...

Marvin still doesn't have a job in football btw....

Just have to say, I love our Linebackers right now under Golden and Lou.

Logan Wilson and Germaine Pratt are studs and I like Markus Bailey too and ADG should continue to grow next year.

Never really had this with the LB whisperer, we had a random Burfict or Odell Thurman but that was a lot of years of poor LB play.

[M.W.]

(02-12-2022, 03:54 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Just have to say, I love our Linebackers right now under Golden and Lou.

Logan Wilson and Germaine Pratt are studs and I like Markus Bailey too and ADG should continue to grow next year.

Never really had this with the LB whisperer, we had a random Burfict or Odell Thurman but that was a lot of years of poor LB play.

Burfict could have been a HOF player if he had his mind right, so sad.

[Whatever]

(02-11-2022, 07:55 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Do you honestly think Burrow would go 0-7 in the playoffs if Marvin were his HC?

I think there's about as much chance of that happening as Burrow making the SB with Marvin.  

[*Nately120*]

(02-12-2022, 05:40 PM)Whatever Wrote: I think there's about as much chance of that happening as Burrow making the SB with Marvin.  

May be I have a higher opinion of Burrow than most, but he could have won the SB with Marvin as his HC in my mind.  

[Bengalitis]

I always thought discipline was not too good with Marvin's teams, I think Carson didn't like that and Marvin didn't like Ocho being a disrupting player. Talented yes, same goals, yes, but it's when things go south that discipline comes to play.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-11-2022, 06:31 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: Zac is very business like yet very much a players coach. He’s got a long way to go. But interesting today how many players are saying they’ve had their best practices of the year. Zac has many more years to prove himself even if he wins Sunday. Not that he’s not a good coach but just how good.

Zac learned organization from his FIL Mike Sherman. Sherman has been said often times as being one of the most organized in the NFL. R C Slocum the old Texas A&M coach had him on his staff way back. He said to me nobody could be more organized. He learned a ton on offense from McVay and how to relate with players. What he lacked was play calling experience and situational experience but he’s come a long way there. But I don’t think he gets enough credit for his vision building this team. He did that on his own. I’m not saying Duke Tobin or his assistants weren’t huge at all. I’m not saying he didn’t have a ton of help. I’m saying where he wanted the end result to be that he zeroed in on the culture and makeup.

Ken Anderson said he knew Zac was righting the ship when he watched a winless team practicing in London in 2019. He anticipated a listless, going through the motions type of practice. Instead, he witnessed a very spirited and organized practice. 

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-11-2022, 06:39 PM)Soonerpeace Wrote: https://www.cincyjungle.com/2022/2/11/22928781/ken-anderson-bengals-turning-point-zac-taylor-london-los-angeles-rams-news

Interesting quote from Ken Anderson today. Talking about Zac’s first year and their trip to London.
“ I mean, I’ve been on good teams where you go through something like that and just go through the motions of a practice just to get it over with,” he continued. “It was one of the most spirited, well-executed practices I’ve ever seen. I said: ‘These guys buy into what Zac Taylor is saying.’ He’s got the pulse of this team, he’s created a culture and I think the players contribute to that culture. I said they hold each other accountable...so that locker room is a good locker room, and they have great leadership.”

LoL, then I read this post.....

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-11-2022, 07:45 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Zac just has fun out there, was just smiling and having a good time while we came back and beat the Chiefs lol

We aren't phased by the big stage anymore, maybe this has to do with Joe Burrow with how cool he is before the game.

Keeps everyone low key and focused.

I think it's all of the above....

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-11-2022, 07:55 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Do you honestly think Burrow would go 0-7 in the playoffs if Marvin were his HC?

Maybe not, but I'd almost guarantee you our defense would have shit the bed like they did every other playoff game he coached. In fact, no one but Cedric Benson honestly had a good postseason game under Marvin. I don't think we're in a SB with Marvin as the coach, regardless of QB. 

[grampahol]

The thing is with Marvin is he first had Palmer with the personality of a fence post most of the time and a bunch of divas and problem kids then Andy with his Gee Golly, let's go with for my mom kind of attitude.. 
Zac got lucky and won the bottom of the barrel superbowl and got Burrow then Chase.. Tough call..

[*bengalfan74*]

Marvin just never got it fully together. You hear people talking about team chemistry, no I in team, playing for each other and so on. But it's not often the whole truth.

With this team it is. Exactly how you capture that is not easily defined. But ZT has caught it.

[Whatever]

(02-12-2022, 06:09 PM)Nately120 Wrote: May be I have a higher opinion of Burrow than most, but he could have won the SB with Marvin as his HC in my mind.  

We wouldn't even be in the playoffs this year with Marvin.

Instead of improving the team in FA, we would still be clutching onto past their prime Marvin guys like AJ, Geno, and Dunlap.  Probably would have given Bates a huge extension.  Does anyone believe we would have drafted Chase if Marvin was here?  

Past that, unless Joe Burrow is also going to make halftime adjustments for the defense, no way we beat KC.

If Marvin was still here, Burrow would likely be disillusioned and doing a Kirk Cousins until he could hit UFA and go to a winner.  That's a 7 year window between his rookie deal and 2 FT's.  We would be nowhere near even contending for a playoff spot with Marvin's personnel philosophies.  

Burrow is a great player, but he is still part of the reason we are in the SB, not the sole reason.  

[NUGDUKWE]

I don't want to get into the debate. One thing I'm loving about this team is they don't panic or get down on one another if bad things happen. I don't really know who gets the credit for that we probably just got at least a little lucky with the character of guys we got.