Team wins since 2011

[fredtoast]

I am sure many of you are familiar with this stat.

MOST REGULAR SEASON WINS SINCE 2011
Patriots..........56
Broncos.........53
Packers.........52
Bengals.........48

But here is another way to look at the records of these four teams since 2011

MOST REGULAR SEASON WINS SINCE 2011 AGAINST TEAMS THAT FINISHED WITH A WINNING RECORD
Broncos.........17
Bengals.........13
Packers.........13
Patriots.........12

[Atomic Orange]

Why not add the Bengals record against those teams.

Since 2011:
Patriots 1-1
Broncos 1-2
Packers 1-0

3-3

[*SHRacerX*]

The funny thing is, the 2011 team, fresh off their QB quitting on them was supposed to go 0-16. If you wagered that the Bengals would have made the playoffs in 2011, you did VERY well.

Imagine being a rookie QB, coming to such a team where all of this was laid out in front of you:

Forget sitting for a year or two, you need to start from day 1. OTAs? You won't have them because of the strike. A running game? We haven't really had one of those for a while, except for one really good season by Ced Benson. Oh yeah, you will play in the most physical division in the NFL with two of the three teams being perennial playoff teams.

Despite this, Andy Dalton came in here and led them to the playoffs, going 9-7 in his first season. They didn't look very good against the Texans in that playoff game, but they got some valuable experience. The team goes on to make the playoffs the next three seasons, but the majority of people still don't believe in you. Everyone holds off their appreciation until you will win a playoff game. And that is just fine with him. Here he is, the #2 rated QB in the NFL at 8-0. He hasn't ever said "where are my doubters now", he just quietly goes about leading this team.

They aren't close to being finished, but I am not going to let any fears of a "one-and-done" in the playoffs take away my joy in watching this young, talented team come together to do something special. Houston? You're next. Then it is on to take on the quitter. I can hardly wait.

I love this team.

[GreenCornBengal]

(11-07-2015, 11:43 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: The funny thing is, the 2011 team, fresh off their QB quitting on them was supposed to go 0-16.  If you wagered that the Bengals would have made the playoffs in 2011, you did VERY well.  

Imagine being a rookie QB, coming to such a team where all of this was laid out in front of you:

Forget sitting for a year or two, you need to start from day 1.  OTAs?  You won't have them because of the strike.  A running game?  We haven't really had one of those for a while, except for one really good season by Ced Benson.  Oh yeah, you will play in the most physical division in the NFL with two of the three teams being perennial playoff teams.  

Despite this, Andy Dalton came in here and led them to the playoffs, going 9-7 in his first season.  They didn't look very good against the Texans in that playoff game, but they got some valuable experience.  The team goes on to make the playoffs the next three seasons, but the majority of people still don't believe in you.  Everyone holds off their appreciation until you will win a playoff game.  And that is just fine with him.  Here he is, the #2 rated QB in the NFL at 8-0.  He hasn't ever said "where are my doubters now", he just quietly goes about leading this team.  

They aren't close to being finished, but I am not going to let any fears of a "one-and-done" in the playoffs take away my joy in watching this young, talented team come together to do something special.  Houston?  You're next.  Then it is on to take on the quitter.  I can hardly wait.  

I love this team.

It's good to see other Bengal fans with this mindset. I feel the same way. Just embrace it and enjoy it as it happens or it will pass you by.

I love every player on this team, every last one. I want THIS specific Bengal team to win the superbowl because each guy is special to me. This team has a special persona and chemistry to it that no other Bengals team has shown me. I hope they can make the most out of what we have right now.

[Luvnit2]

(11-07-2015, 11:43 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: The funny thing is, the 2011 team, fresh off their QB quitting on them was supposed to go 0-16.  If you wagered that the Bengals would have made the playoffs in 2011, you did VERY well.  

Imagine being a rookie QB, coming to such a team where all of this was laid out in front of you:

Forget sitting for a year or two, you need to start from day 1.  OTAs?  You won't have them because of the strike.  A running game?  We haven't really had one of those for a while, except for one really good season by Ced Benson.  Oh yeah, you will play in the most physical division in the NFL with two of the three teams being perennial playoff teams.  

Despite this, Andy Dalton came in here and led them to the playoffs, going 9-7 in his first season.  They didn't look very good against the Texans in that playoff game, but they got some valuable experience.  The team goes on to make the playoffs the next three seasons, but the majority of people still don't believe in you.  Everyone holds off their appreciation until you will win a playoff game.  And that is just fine with him.  Here he is, the #2 rated QB in the NFL at 8-0.  He hasn't ever said "where are my doubters now", he just quietly goes about leading this team.  

They aren't close to being finished, but I am not going to let any fears of a "one-and-done" in the playoffs take away my joy in watching this young, talented team come together to do something special.  Houston?  You're next.  Then it is on to take on the quitter.  I can hardly wait.  

I love this team.

Great reminder

4-12 in 2010
Lost franchise QB
Added new OC
No camp due to CBA so lost valuable prep time for rookies
Expected a 2nd round QB who was drafted behind Cam, Gabbert, Locker and Ponder (5th QB drafted in 2011) to right the ship

I recall most experts having us ranked at #32 or worst team in the NFL

[fredtoast]

(11-07-2015, 11:43 AM)SHRacerX Wrote:  OTAs?  You won't have them because of the strike. 

Plus the entire offense had to learn the scheme of a new OC, and his #1 receiver was another rookie.



I do have to point out that the bengals only won one game against a team with a winning record that year, but it was a road game (at Tenn)

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-07-2015, 01:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Plus the entire offense had to learn the scheme of a new OC, and his #1 receiver was another rookie.



I do have to point out that the bengals only won one game against a team with a winning record that year, but it was a road game (at Tenn)

I remember thinking to myself after an early loss to Denver that this team had some fight.  

Dalton's criticisms go like this:

9-7:  "He can't beat the big boys in his division"

10-6, splits with "the big boys":  "He can't win the division"

11-5:  wins division:  "He can't win in the playoffs"

10-5-1:  Wild card loss:  "He will never get this team over the hump, he is average, and he should not have gotten an extension"

2015: 8-0, #2 rated QB in the NFL "He still has to do it in the playoffs".  

And while that last criticism is true, he has answered the criticism every time.  

[Luvnit2]

(11-07-2015, 01:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Plus the entire offense had to learn the scheme of a new OC, and his #1 receiver was another rookie.



I do have to point out that the bengals only won one game against a team with a winning record that year, but it was a road game (at Tenn)

I do get somewhat the whole winning record discussion, but it begs the question, if we lose to any team at .500, then they would have a winning record. If we lose to any team that goes 7-9, they become 8-8 and off the losing record list.

You take 2015 and we are 8-0. If we lose to the Seahawks (4-4), they have a winning record. Same for the Steelers. Chiefs would be at 4-4 now versus 3-5. The Bills would go from losing record of 3-4 to 4-3 with win over us.

[fredtoast]

(11-07-2015, 01:40 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: I remember thinking to myself after an early loss to Denver that this team had some fight.  

Dalton's criticisms go like this:

9-7:  "He can't beat the big boys in his division"

10-6, splits with "the big boys":  "He can't win the division"

11-5:  wins division:  "He can't win in the playoffs"

10-5-1:  Wild card loss:  "He will never get this team over the hump, he is average, and he should not have gotten an extension"

2015: 8-0, #2 rated QB in the NFL "He still has to do it in the playoffs".  

And while that last criticism is true, he has answered the criticism every time.  

One of the announcers made a great point Thursday night.  If Dalton had gone 8-8 then 9-7 and missed the playoffs his first two season he would be getting a lot LESS criticism than he is now.

That doesn't seem to make any sense, but when you think about it it is true.  He would be getting lots of credit for how he is developing into a top NFL QB.  But since he won MORE than that he is getting ripped instead of complimented.

[*pally*]

Don't forget in Andy's rookie year he was also dealing with a rookie #1 wide receiver in A.J. Green. And behind him we had such stars as Andre Caldwell and Jerome Simpson, rookie Andrew Hawkins. Jordan Shipley lasted not even 2 full games. Cam Newton had Steve Smith. In that playoff game the Texans had a back up quarterback but at least he had Andre Johnson and Arian Foster with a veteran QB to help guide him

[Luvnit2]

(11-07-2015, 03:22 PM)pally Wrote: Don't forget in Andy's rookie year he was also dealing with a rookie #1 wide receiver in A.J. Green.  And behind him we had such stars as Andre Caldwell and Jerome Simpson, rookie Andrew Hawkins.  Jordan Shipley lasted not even 2 full games.  Cam Newton had Steve Smith.  In that playoff game the Texans had a back up quarterback but at least he had Andre Johnson and Arian Foster with a veteran QB to help guide him

All great points

In essence he was dealing with a 4-12 roster

[Johnny Cupcakes]

(11-07-2015, 01:40 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Dalton's criticisms go like this:

9-7:  "He can't beat the big boys in his division"

10-6, splits with "the big boys":  "He can't win the division"

11-5:  wins division:  "He can't win in the playoffs"

10-5-1:  Wild card loss:  "He will never get this team over the hump, he is average, and he should not have gotten an extension"

2015: 8-0, #2 rated QB in the NFL "He still has to do it in the playoffs".  

My opinions on Andy through the years.

2011: Great season by our rookie. We could have a bright future.
2012: Andy Dalton looks like an average QB at this point.
2013: Great year, but although his numbers went up, he still didn't pass the eye test.  He's average.
2014: Massive regression.  Andy Dalton probably has topped out and he's probably a bit below average.
2015: Elite level play. Keep making me eat my words and I will keep promising you handjobs on Facebook. 

[Vikairius]

(11-08-2015, 12:20 AM)Johnny Cupcake Wrote: 2015: Elite level play. Keep making me eat my words and I will keep promising you handjobs on Facebook. 

Not sure why I grinned so much at this one...

[BURROWorBUST]

(11-08-2015, 12:20 AM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: My opinions on Andy through the years.

2011: Great season by our rookie. We could have a bright future.
2012: Andy Dalton looks like an average QB at this point.
2013: Great year, but although his numbers went up, he still didn't pass the eye test.  He's average.
2014: Massive regression.  Andy Dalton probably has topped out and he's probably a bit below average.
2015: Elite level play. Keep making me eat my words and I will keep promising you handjobs on Facebook. 

And if he finishes the last half of the year they way he performed in the first half, he'll finish the season with

nearly 4,500 yards passing and 278 per game (10 more per game than in 2013)
about 350 completions on around 500 attempts for 67.5% (his career high by about 3.5%) 
36 touchdowns (another career high)
8 interceptions (his career low by 5 [he had 13 in 2011])

I don't know what kind of passer rating that would score, but it would beat any season that Joe Montana ever had. That is, without any doubt, in the same league as Peyton Manning. DAMN!!!!!!




Year
Team
G
Comp
Att
%
Yds
Y/G
Y/A
300+
TD
Int
Rush
Yds
Y/G
Avg
TD
100+
Lost

[Vikairius]

(11-08-2015, 02:15 AM)Shady Wrote: And if he finishes the last half of the year they way he performed in the first half, he'll finish the season with

nearly 4,500 yards passing and 278 per game (10 more per game than in 2013)
about 350 completions on around 500 attempts for 67.5% (his career high by about 3.5%) 
36 touchdowns (another career high)
8 interceptions (his career low by 5 [he had 13 in 2011])

I don't know what kind of passer rating that would score, but it would beat any season that Joe Montana ever had. That is, without any doubt, in the same league as Peyton Manning. DAMN!!!!!!




Year
Team
G
Comp
Att
%
Yds
Y/G
Y/A
300+
TD
Int
Rush
Yds
Y/G
Avg
TD
100+
Lost

The yards and percentage are cool, but...

If Andy gets into the 40TDS and under 10INT club, I will be elated.

[Eraserhead]

(11-07-2015, 02:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: One of the announcers made a great point Thursday night.  If Dalton had gone 8-8 then 9-7 and missed the playoffs his first two season he would be getting a lot LESS criticism than he is now.

That doesn't seem to make any sense, but when you think about it it is true.  He would be getting lots of credit for how he is developing into a top NFL QB.  But since he won MORE than that he is getting ripped instead of complimented.

It is sad that that is a very true and unfair statement.

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-08-2015, 02:52 AM)Vikairius Wrote: The yards and percentage are cool, but...

If Andy gets into the 40TDS and under 10INT club, I will be elated.

In all fairness to the Brady and Manning seasons when they hit ridiculous one year totals in TD passes, do you realize how many of those were thrown on first and goal from the three yard line?  I think the conservative nature of our coaching staff and the presence of two very good RBs will limit TD passes for Andy somewhat.  Personally, I could care less.  I just want to see the wins continue to pile up.  

Pig Ben is notorious for these.  Instead of the running back, they get the TD pass.  

[PV Bengal]

(11-07-2015, 02:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: One of the announcers made a great point Thursday night.  If Dalton had gone 8-8 then 9-7 and missed the playoffs his first two season he would be getting a lot LESS criticism than he is now.

That doesn't seem to make any sense, but when you think about it it is true.  He would be getting lots of credit for how he is developing into a top NFL QB.  But since he won MORE than that he is getting ripped instead of complimented.

(11-08-2015, 03:31 AM)SB50Champs Wrote: It is sad that that is a very true and unfair statement.

Actually, it is not an unfair statement. Let's take a look at how the "talking head" conversation  would have gone had Dalton had a "normal progression".

DISCLAIMER: EVERYTHING THAT FOLLOWS IS PURE SUPPOSITION ON MY PART.

1st year. Dalton struggles as a rookie QB and one would have thought much about it since virtually ALL rookie QBs struggle. The talking heads would have pointed out that he inherited a 4-12 roster and needed more talent to succeed. Case in point ... no one gave two shits about how bad Peyton Manning was his rookie year. Had Dalton gone 5-11, the talking heads would have thought it was a pretty decent showing.

Then, in year 2, the Bengals go from 5-11 (in Dalton's first year) to 7-8 and miss the playoffs. Again, the talking heads would have said he improved a lot but the team was still 3-5 players away from the playoffs.

In Dalton's 3rd year, the Bengals go 9-7 and miss the playoffs. Dalton's numers were good but, again, the talking heads would have said that the Bengals were 1 or 2 players away.

4th year, Dalton regresses in terms of numbers BUT the Bengals back into the playoffs. They are decimated by skill position injuries and get clobbered in the first round. And, yet again, Dalton ... and the Bengals ... would have gotten a pass by the talking heads because of all of the injuries.

So again, I don't thing the statement was unfair to Dalton and the Bengals ... had Dalton progressed (in terms of wins and numbers) the way most rookie QB's progress.

And remember, we (as an organization) have to also overcome a "built in bias" because of the 90s.

No one gives a crap (now) that the Squealers (from 1945 to 1971) were a horrible football team. If the Clowns ever get to be a winning football team (us unlikely as that sounds), no one will care that they stunk up the joint since 1997 ... because the Browns had a history of winning in the 40s, 50s and 60s". The Ravens could stink it up from now until 2030 ... but but if they go 0-10 in playoff 1-and-done after that, no one will care because they won 2 Super Bowls in the early 2000s.

[gobobro]

The few things I will add to the discussion are:

1. Dalton and the rest of the young group were also having that early success despite the growing pains of an offense run by an arena league coach who'd never been more than an NFL assistant.

2. The talking point of the early years said his arm was too weak to succeed. When it was obvious he had the arm, then it turned to "decision making." Now, it's "nothing matters til January."

3. Pre-draft, I read so much about how Dalton's projected ceiling was as a very good backup QB.

[*Go Cards*]

Definitely has been a fun time to be a Bengals fan.