Tyler Boyd

[Roland]

This is dumb.  The last thing we need is to go back to the days when we didn't have enough receiving threats.  Yeah, let's just have two and when one of them goes down we're screwed.  Those were the days.

Boyd's catches were more limited by Burrows time in pocket than by his own ability.  Give Burrow a tick more and we've got three 1000 yard receivers. There is plenty of cap space to improve the Oline without cutting major contributors.

I'm going to call this this your "Let's go Brandon" strategy since you're obviously pining for another Brandon Tate or Brandon LaFell.  

[thompson19osu]

(02-14-2022, 12:40 AM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: If Boyd caught that ball he’s tackled short of the 1st. We punt after burning 30 seconds. We ended up needing those 30 seconds in an attempt to drive down the field late. No harm no foul.

Boyd is a valuable player. He needs more targets. Improve the oline and we’ll be so much better next year. Burrow will get better too. He’s not done developing. Lots of players are going to keep improving.

Wrong. His momentum would have carried for the first. I would agree with OP imfoe simple fact to upgrade o-line by any means necessary.

[casear2727]

(02-14-2022, 02:31 AM)Whatever Wrote: Boyd has an $8.25 mil salary next year, but cutting him causes $2.8 mil in signing bonus to accelerate, leaving you with only about $5.5 mil in actual cap savings.  Look at what a lot of comparable guys signed for last year.  Emmanuel Sanders and AJ Green got $6 mil.  Sammy Watkins got $5 mil.  OBJ is an extreme outlier because he was cut mid-season.  It's a zero sum move.  

I appreciate the reply, disagree it is zero sum.  Sanders and Watkins are one year deals.

Joey B with a great oline - Chase, Higgins and Mixon do not require that much from the TE or slot in my opinion.

I would love for TB to restructure and stay. Im looking for every penny to protect Joe. We have to sacrifice some places.  Eventually it wil be on defense. We should never prioritize a slot or TE over oline or Defense in my opinion.

[Bengalstripes9]

(02-14-2022, 02:38 AM)thompson19osu Wrote: Wrong. His momentum would have carried for the first. I would agree with OP imfoe simple fact to upgrade o-line by any means necessary.

Lol. Watch the play again. He was two yards short. The defender was an inch away from clobbering him. I’d give him a 10 percent chance of getting a 1st. Most likely comes up a yard short.

[casear2727]

(02-14-2022, 02:36 AM)Roland Wrote: This is dumb.  The last thing we need is to go back to the days when we didn't have enough receiving threats.  Yeah, let's just have two and when one of them goes down we're screwed.  Those were the days.

Boyd's catches were more limited by Burrows time in pocket than by his own ability.  Give Burrow a tick more and we've got three 1000 yard receivers. There is plenty of cap space to improve the Oline without cutting major contributors.

I'm going to call this this your "Let's go Brandon" strategy since you're obviously pining for another Brandon Tate or Brandon LaFell.  

I go with the proven path ala Brady.  Great QB, great protection get a couple go to guys and fill in everywhere else. Joe will eventually take up $40-50M of cap space.

Not sure why you are ok taking the chance with an average line and a $10M slot who is rarely the 3rd option over the best protection possible for Joe with Chase, Higgins and Mixon?

[casear2727]

(02-14-2022, 02:43 AM)Bengalstripes9 Wrote: Lol. Watch the play again. He was two yards short. The defender was an inch away from clobbering him. I’d give him a 10 percent chance of getting a 1st. Most likely comes up a yard short.

You may be right, he is still way over paid while JoeyB is back getting Xrays and MRIs... in my opinion.

[Roland]

(02-14-2022, 02:46 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I go with the proven path ala Brady.  Great QB, great protection get a couple go to guys and fill in everywhere else. Joe will eventually take up $40-50M of cap space.

Not sure why you are ok taking the chance with an average line and a $10M slot who is rarely the 3rd option over the best protection possible for Joe with Chase, Higgins and Mixon?

When we have Bill Belichick scouting talent and coaching for us I'll buy into cutting guys who have consistently produced based on a single down year because of a ROTY performance from another guy.  

But I don't think your characterization of Bellichick is accurate.  For many years he tried to stack talent at WR three deep.  That became unnecessary once they had a future first ballot HOFer who was uncoverable down the field at TE.  You got that in your back pocket, too?

The disruption and risk that you're proposing to create at WR is not worth the money you would save. There's dead cap and the cost of someone who is capable of filling that role to consider.   Also, it's unlikely that the market is going to align with our needs in a way that will allow that *maybe* $4M net savings to make a difference.  We're not going to remake the line in one off season.

No, keep the security blanket this coming year.  If they need the money to continue making progress on the OL in 23 then I'd ask him to restructure and extend in a very cap friendly way to have the opportunity to stick with Joe.

[Forever Spinning Vinyl]

Bengals . . . pick Chase over glaring OL need to open up offense with three WR threat and Mixon
Bengals . . . surprise everybody, win the division and the AFC after a 4 win season the previous year, dazzling the NFL with their weapons

Caeser . . . get rid of three WR threat

That's how you sound.

[casear2727]

(02-14-2022, 05:03 AM)Roland Wrote: When we have Bill Belichick scouting talent and coaching for us I'll buy into cutting guys who have consistently produced based on a single down year because of a ROTY performance from another guy.  

But I don't think your characterization of Bellichick is accurate.  For many years he tried to stack talent at WR three deep.  That became unnecessary once they had a future first ballot HOFer who was uncoverable down the field at TE.  You got that in your back pocket, too?

The disruption and risk that you're proposing to create at WR is not worth the money you would save. There's dead cap and the cost of someone who is capable of filling that role to consider.   Also, it's unlikely that the market is going to align with our needs in a way that will allow that *maybe* $4M net savings to make a difference.  We're not going to remake the line in one off season.

No, keep the security blanket this coming year.  If they need the money to continue making progress on the OL in 23 then I'd ask him to restructure and extend in a very cap friendly way to have the opportunity to stick with Joe.

The Chiefs totally rebuilt their oline in one year. Im looking to replace 3 guys, 2 of which couldnt start for Bama.

I think we need to take a deep dive and see where the money is.  

It makes no sense to me to pay WR3 $10M the next 2 years average 4 receptions a game as we watch our franchise QB gets destroyed.

We have 2 better WR's and Joe goes to CJ and RB often.  After Joe hurt his other knee, and knowing how terrible we are at drafting oline I dont see how anyone could choose overpaying a slot guy instead of better Oline.


I do like your restructure offer and would be very happy with that, as Im not slighting TBs talent but his production.  (Although, dropping that pass late in 4th is a terrible look with a $10M salary while the Rams slot is catching everything to come from behind to win the SB)

[J24]

(02-14-2022, 01:20 AM)casear2727 Wrote: It's not that hard to draft an olineman..... ?

We had 2 1st round draft busts (not counting Ross) that should be starting veterans today in 2015 and 2018.

We have drafted exactly ONE solid starting olineman in the last 10 years. 
Please tell me how easy it is for us in the draft?

So we should give up a Top 5 player(I consider Slot WR a position in itself ) for nothing? 

Like I said if you want to Trade him for a top 64 pick or significant player. Ok then but releasing him straight up is dumb.

As for the draft I here you on it but what else are going to do? We can't realistically sign 3 top end Offensive Lineman in Free agency. You're going to have to hit on some draft picks eventually.

[casear2727]

(02-14-2022, 05:32 AM)J24 Wrote: So we should give up a Top 5 player(I consider Slot WR a position in itself ) for nothing? 

Like I said if you want to Trade him for a top 64 pick or significant player. Ok then but releasing him straight up is dumb.

As for the draft I here you on it but what else are going to do? We can't realistically sign 3 top end Offensive Lineman in Free agency. You're going to have to hit on some draft picks eventually.

Im ok with trading him... for oline value one way or another.

He may be a Top 5 player talent wise but should not be paid a Top 5 player salary on offense.  We simply dont prioritize the slot enough. 4 receptions a game is not a huge impact.  This is very close to claiming we have the most talented fullback in history but he doesnt block or carry the football very much. Great he's talented but we need cash on oline.

I see our offensive players in order of importance as:

JoeyB
Chase
Mixon
Higgins
LT
RT
C
LG
RG
TE
Slot

So cutting Boyd and saving cash towards signing a better lineman over an average one? All day, every day.  Just my opinion though.

[masonbengals fan]

TB isn't why this game was lost.

[Au165]

Just to kind of put a rest to this, we don't need the money from Boyd's contract by the way to make improvements, but if we did there are financial tools available to keep Boyd and get the money from his deal. We could for instance "extend" him by adding an extra year to his contract and converting his base salary to signing bonus then use a voidable year for the 3rd year. If we did this for example we could take his cap hit for next year down to as low as 3 or 4 Million.

The other option is we could flat out extend him an extra 2 years, because honestly he won't be that old when this contract ends, and just tie more of his backend salary to roster bonuses but use a similar signing bonus structure to save money next year.

[Ell Prez]

(02-14-2022, 01:32 AM)casear2727 Wrote: If we have to pay a low priority slot wr to provide guidance and influence to a 3rd yr WR and a 2nd yr ROTY, both with SB experience, we have way more issues than we thought.  These guys have grown up and p-assed TB.

I understand that many will have responses based on emotions but it is time to respond like a winning org that wants to go back to the Super Bowl and make big boy decisions on priorities that protect the Joe & win games.  

I am waiting to hear an argument as to how Tyler's low production (not his ability or likeabilty) is worth $20M the next two years over an elite RT or RG?  I think Joe's knees agree with me.

Patriots cut all pro safety Lawyer Malloy... winning requires intelligent decisions, not emotional ones. 

Just my opinion, but open to hear why I am wrong?

You have some good points, and made me consider it, but you need 3 weapons in the NFL. Without Boyd, we don’t have the firepower to get to the SB. So you save 10M but then you need to sign another FA WR. That’s at least 6M to get someone decent. 10M isn’t that much at all. Chase is going to get like 20-25. Tee will get 18M. 10M is a fairly low ticket.

I think we need to move on from Mixon. Draft a RB in round 3-4.

[Sled21]

(02-14-2022, 12:44 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Boyd's money isn't really an issue for now. His contract is up (and he'll be 30) when Chase is eligible for an extension, so they'll just move on from Boyd then.

You won't be able to find anyone as good as him for anywhere near his contract if you get rid of him. Plus then you're just 1 injury away from having only 1 good WR.

Keep Boyd. If you're going to trade anyone, trade Mixon. Only save $3.2m in cap space in 2022, but you save $13m in 2023 when Burrow will be getting an extension. No need for a $13m RB, that's just a bad allocation of resources.

Right, the overreactions are hilarious.

[Essex Johnson]

(02-14-2022, 12:30 AM)casear2727 Wrote: I mentioned this last week sometime with a couple posters in agreement...

Boyd is way over paid at WR3.   $10.1M this coming season and $10.3M next. Trade for value now or let go and spend, spend, spend on Oline.

We dont need a superstar slot with Chase, Higgins and Joe.  Especially one not producing at a high level.

Dropping an 8yd pass on a crucial 3rd down in the SB simply adds to my suggestion a week ago.

I know it was his only drop, but he hasnt carried us anymore than a solid RG would have this season. Lets not make the same mistake 2 more years.  Pull a Belicheck and move on from high dollar guys that dont produce to their pay level.

I know many will disagree, but keep in mind, this was my suggestion a week ago.

The drop line is just crazy, best catch ratio in the game this year, so he had a bit of a down year, what he has produced in past is important and to think you can win in this league with just two WRs with injuries etc very rare season of health for Chase and Higgins, with lack of TE and lack of real WR depth letting Boyd go could be a major mistake next season

[Savagehenry54]

(02-14-2022, 12:39 AM)casear2727 Wrote: Does it matter? Look how many targets he gets vs Kupp?  We dont need a $10M slot. We need $10M oline.  

Respectfully, please provide me your argument on spending $20M on TB the next 2 years instead of an excellent RG or RT?  

Boyd already earned the money he has.  Wtf are you talking about?

There's only a few dudes on earth who could do what he's done for this team.  Transitioning from AJ, and nothing but a team player who continues to produce along side the guys brought in to replace him.

Are we up against the cap?  There's no other way besides cutting boyd to have a better oline?

[Whatever]

(02-14-2022, 11:22 AM)Au165 Wrote: Just to kind of put a rest to this, we don't need the money from Boyd's contract by the way to make improvements, but if we did there are financial tools available to keep Boyd and get the money from his deal. We could for instance "extend" him by adding an extra year to his contract and converting his base salary to signing bonus then use a voidable year for the 3rd year. If we did this for example we could take his cap hit for next year down to as low as 3 or 4 Million.

The other option is we could flat out extend him an extra 2 years, because honestly he won't be that old when this contract ends, and just tie more of his backend salary to roster bonuses but use a similar signing bonus structure to save money next year.

If we really needed some space, they could just convert his '22 salary into signing bonus money minus league minimum salary.  The only key geuys we have coming up in '23 are Bell, Pratt, and Hopkins and none of them are going to be expensive to keep or replace with a similar caliber player.

[Housh]

I cant condone Tyler Boyd slander after 1 ***** drop all season. CMon. He wouldve been short anyway, AND he came back next drive and made teh hardest catch of the game.


Ppl gott agive respect when its earned and TB earned respect by being our number 1 when we sucked, and by being a TEAMMATE when we drafted 2 guys better than him in back to back years which made him a 3rd WR. You cant put a price on humility but to me 10M is right around where he deserves to be. 1 drop doesnt change that

[Au165]

(02-14-2022, 11:49 AM)Whatever Wrote: If we really needed some space, they could just convert his '22 salary into signing bonus money minus league minimum salary.  The only key geuys we have coming up in '23 are Bell, Pratt, and Hopkins and none of them are going to be expensive to keep or replace with a similar caliber player.

That just takes it into next year though in a 50/50 split (signing bonus is prorated over years left). I like the voidable year approach because it take a bit more off the top this year as it's divided over 3 but essentially split 33% next year 66% the following.