O-Line Cost Us a Championship

[reuben.ahmed]

(02-15-2022, 09:15 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I'm heading into my 7th Annual "Fix-The-OL" Offseason, so I am clearly all on board with adding 3 good OL in FA and drafting another in the 1st round and am not surprised by most of those images.... but holy shit did Mixon not improve as a blocker like we hoped when Gio left.

It must be Gio's "lower center of gravity", for being such a big back how is Mixon so bad at pass blocking, damn.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-20-2022, 10:06 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: While I completely agree with the overall sentiment, it is crucial to understand that there were no fewer than four guys that they though could have held down the other guard position from Spain:  Adeniji, 2nd round pick Carman, D'Ante Smith.  Heck, they were even saying how improved Mike Jordan was early in preseason, but I think now that was a tactic.  

Regardless, I just hate the "they didn't do anything"....to more of a "they weren't successful with their approach".  


I mean, look back at Ogbuehi, Fisher, Glenn, Price, and Williams.  All but Fisher were first round (Glenn was a first round swap of picks) and only Williams has proven to be a solid player.  Reiff was a solid addition before injury as well.

I would hope they would get a FA for the RT and the RG spot and if that costs them a large chunk of their FA dollars, so be it.  Bates to me is an automatic yes.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(02-20-2022, 10:25 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote:

While I laughed at the image, you can't say that when it happened, you weren't excited about the Cordy Glenn trade, the Billy Price pick, the Jackson Carman pick, the signing of Reily Reiff....who was a solid contributor before the injury.

I look at it this way:  (And I don't expect it to be a popular opinion, but hear me out)  The Bengals offensive line wasn't a problem against the steelers or ravens.  Nor was it a problem against the Chiefs.  They won all six of those games, playing each of them twice.  So what happened?  When they faced a defensive line that could beat you in multiple ways:  The Browns when their guys were healthy.  The Titans defensive line.  The Raiders defensive line.  The Rams defensive line.  They were over-matched.  The offense struggled.  Was the offense completely shut down?  No.  No, it wasn't.  They still won a lot of those games.  Why?  The offense could scheme to overcome some of the deficiencies against those defenses.  Could it overcome all of them?  Obviously, also no.  

Where am I going with this?  Well, will the Bengals face a defense like the Rams again?  Donald is retiring.  That team is in shambles.  The 49ers have a tough defense, but have QB issues.  The Packers will always be in contention as far as they have Rogers.  But does their defense frighten you?  What AFC defense do you think the Bengals can't handle?  We don't know how we would fare against Buffalo, but KC sure owned their asses and the Bengals can beat you just as many ways.  KC's defense?  Mahommes contract kicks in next year.  It will be interesting to see how that team handles their new found cap issues.  They went "all in" like the Rams spending on FA acquisitions for their line.  No idea how they will look next year.


Please don't interpret this as a "hey, we are just fine...don't change a thing", but the narrative that the Bengals have no shot with the line they have and won't be able to be back next year is just not accurate (not saying you are saying this, but just in general).  EVERY TEAM has significant issues.  I think the Bengals are in a GREAT position to make next year's team even better while many other teams will be using duct tape (per your image) to try and compete.  

Will it be easy?  Hell, no.  But I sure like their chances. 

[Soonerpeace]

The strategy would be go get Ben Jones . He’s a top center and will likely cost 7 million. Go get Connor Williams Dallas or Andrew Norwell from the Jags ( better chance) around 7 million. Resign Reiff and Spain and draft a tackle at #31.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-20-2022, 10:48 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: While I laughed at the image, you can't say that when it happened, you weren't excited about the Cordy Glenn trade, the Billy Price pick, the Jackson Carman pick, the signing of Reily Reiff....who was a solid contributor before the injury.

I look at it this way:  (And I don't expect it to be a popular opinion, but hear me out)  The Bengals offensive line wasn't a problem against the steelers or ravens.  Nor was it a problem against the Chiefs.  They won all six of those games, playing each of them twice.  So what happened?  When they faced a defensive line that could beat you in multiple ways:  The Browns when their guys were healthy.  The Titans defensive line.  The Raiders defensive line.  The Rams defensive line.  They were over-matched.  The offense struggled.  Was the offense completely shut down?  No.  No, it wasn't.  They still won a lot of those games.  Why?  The offense could scheme to overcome some of the deficiencies against those defenses.  Could it overcome all of them?  Obviously, also no.  

Where am I going with this?  Well, will the Bengals face a defense like the Rams again?  Donald is retiring.  That team is in shambles.  The 49ers have a tough defense, but have QB issues.  The Packers will always be in contention as far as they have Rogers.  But does their defense frighten you?  What AFC defense do you think the Bengals can't handle?  We don't know how we would fare against Buffalo, but KC sure owned their asses and the Bengals can beat you just as many ways.  KC's defense?  Mahommes contract kicks in next year.  It will be interesting to see how that team handles their new found cap issues.  They went "all in" like the Rams spending on FA acquisitions for their line.  No idea how they will look next year.


Please don't interpret this as a "hey, we are just fine...don't change a thing", but the narrative that the Bengals have no shot with the line they have and won't be able to be back next year is just not accurate (not saying you are saying this, but just in general).  EVERY TEAM has significant issues.  I think the Bengals are in a GREAT position to make next year's team even better while many other teams will be using duct tape (per your image) to try and compete.  

Will it be easy?  Hell, no.  But I sure like their chances. 

I can honestly and truly say no to all of those with no hindsight involved...
-I didn't think Glenn was going to be so bad, but I didn't like that it moved them down in the draft. I wanted Ragnow. 
-As for Price I generally am out on Ohio State OL and again, I wanted Ragnow. 
-Jackson Carman I didn't like at all from the getgo because you generally shouldn't take 300+lb guys with preexisting back conditions and I wanted Liam Eichenberg (who admittedly didn't play well either, lol, but that's who I wanted).
-Riley Reiff I was never really excited for because I was warning from Day 1 that he would get hurt some time during the season. If a guy in his age 33 season has been hurt the previous 5 straight seasons, you can pretty much just assume he'll be hurt again. He was also merely a 1 year 33-year-old bandaid and not a solution for the OL. Instead he was the only change in the starting OL from the game that tore up Burrow's knee in 2020.


You're right, that isn't going to be a popular opinion. None of that changes the fact that Burrow was sacked 70 times, the run game was pathetic, they weren't good on 3rd down, couldn't convert short yardage, and weren't good at scoring TDs in the red zone. Burrow managed to escape this season with "merely" an MCL sprain that he had to play on for two months. Wooo, upgrade over having to completely rebuild his other knee the previous year. Except they're literally shortening Burrow's career right now with these OLs. You say don't interpret it as a we're just fine, but that is a whole lot of words that basically give the impression that's exactly what you're saying.

[*Synric*]

(02-20-2022, 11:30 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: -Riley Reiff I was never really excited for because I was warning from Day 1 that he would get hurt some time during the season. If a guy in his age 33 season has been hurt the previous 5 straight seasons, you can pretty much just assume he'll be hurt again. He was also merely a 1 year 33-year-old bandaid and not a solution for the OL. Instead he was the only change in the starting OL from the game that tore up Burrow's knee in 2020.

Riley Rieff missed 1 game in 2020 and that was due to Covid. He missed 1 game in 2019 sitting week 17 for the playoffs. He missed 1 game in 2017.

Riley Reiff has a relatively healthy career. Saying the guy has been hurt every year is just completely false.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-20-2022, 10:48 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: While I laughed at the image, you can't say that when it happened, you weren't excited about the Cordy Glenn trade, the Billy Price pick, the Jackson Carman pick, the signing of Reily Reiff....who was a solid contributor before the injury.

I look at it this way:  (And I don't expect it to be a popular opinion, but hear me out)  The Bengals offensive line wasn't a problem against the steelers or ravens.  Nor was it a problem against the Chiefs.  They won all six of those games, playing each of them twice.  So what happened?  When they faced a defensive line that could beat you in multiple ways:  The Browns when their guys were healthy.  The Titans defensive line.  The Raiders defensive line.  The Rams defensive line.  They were over-matched.  The offense struggled.  Was the offense completely shut down?  No.  No, it wasn't.  They still won a lot of those games.  Why?  The offense could scheme to overcome some of the deficiencies against those defenses.  Could it overcome all of them?  Obviously, also no.  

Where am I going with this?  Well, will the Bengals face a defense like the Rams again?  Donald is retiring.  That team is in shambles.  The 49ers have a tough defense, but have QB issues.  The Packers will always be in contention as far as they have Rogers.  But does their defense frighten you?  What AFC defense do you think the Bengals can't handle?  We don't know how we would fare against Buffalo, but KC sure owned their asses and the Bengals can beat you just as many ways.  KC's defense?  Mahommes contract kicks in next year.  It will be interesting to see how that team handles their new found cap issues.  They went "all in" like the Rams spending on FA acquisitions for their line.  No idea how they will look next year.


Please don't interpret this as a "hey, we are just fine...don't change a thing", but the narrative that the Bengals have no shot with the line they have and won't be able to be back next year is just not accurate (not saying you are saying this, but just in general).  EVERY TEAM has significant issues.  I think the Bengals are in a GREAT position to make next year's team even better while many other teams will be using duct tape (per your image) to try and compete.  

Will it be easy?  Hell, no.  But I sure like their chances. 

And...the line was considerably better with Reiff. When he got hurt, it got much worse.

Reiff is an NFL starting tackle. When he, went out we had guys ar rt and rg who weren't nfl caliber. That's a big thing.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-20-2022, 11:04 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: The strategy would be go get Ben Jones . He’s a top center and will likely cost 7 million. Go get Connor Williams Dallas or Andrew Norwell from the Jags ( better chance) around 7 million. Resign Reiff and Spain and draft a tackle at #31.

I'd probably try something similar.

A LOT of teams will try the same strategy too. Well...I'd look to get younger than Reiff too.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-20-2022, 12:03 PM)Synric Wrote: Riley Rieff missed 1 game in 2020 and that was due to Covid. He missed 1 game in 2019 sitting week 17 for the playoffs. He missed 1 game in 2017.

Riley Reiff has a relatively healthy career. Saying the guy has been hurt every year is just completely false.

Yep. Reiff was a massive upgrade to Hart too.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-15-2022, 09:15 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: I'm heading into my 7th Annual "Fix-The-OL" Offseason, so I am clearly all on board with adding 3 good OL in FA and drafting another in the 1st round and am not surprised by most of those images.... but holy shit did Mixon not improve as a blocker like we hoped when Gio left.

And people wonder why Perine was in on the last drive...

[Essex Johnson]

(02-14-2022, 12:45 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Defense was incredible. Stuffed the run as well as I've ever seen. Limited Stafford.

Our WRs combined for over 200 yards and 2 TDs.

Burrow was good, but limited on what plays we could run.

Mixon rushed for 73 on 4.8 per carry and even threw a TD.

ST was great once again.

---------------

But.....our "offensive" line gave up 7 sacks and had our offense game planning around it's limitations.

Burrow was sacked 70 times overall this season and it took awhile, but the injury people were worried about might have happened again. To the other knee.

Chase was great. Fix. The. Line.

Been weak link all year and really outside penalties little improvement in pass protection and running game from last year the addition of. Pollack did not improve the line as we hoped especially  since we were  overall healthier than last yr  plus, reiff pickup and 2nd round pick. Kc scored with their rookie lineman where ours did not.  Having Burrow all year was major but if our defense had not improved doubt we make the playoffs.  

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-20-2022, 12:15 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: And people wonder why Perine was in on the last drive...

That also continues to reinforce how bad the Mixon contract was (granted almost all RB 2nd contracts are bad anymore). What's the point of having the 7th highest paid RB in the NFL if you're down by 3 in the Super Bowl on the final drive of the game, and he can't even be on the field? Imagine a top-10 paid QB who with 1:25 left in the Super Bowl you said "sorry, we don't trust you to help us win this game, we want your backup in".

[CincyDog]

(02-20-2022, 12:26 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Been weak link all year and really outside penalties little improvement in pass protection and running game from last year the addition of. Pollack did not improve the line as we hoped especially  since we were  overall healthier than last yr  plus, reiff pickup and 2nd round pick. Kc scored with their rookie lineman where ours did not.  Having Burrow all year was major but if our defense had not improved doubt we make the playoffs.  

Don’t you tell everyone constantly that Herbert is superior to Burrow in like ever aspect of the game?

Actually . You’ve been quiet about that over the last few months. Wonder why? Lol

[THE PISTONS]

(02-20-2022, 12:26 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Been weak link all year and really outside penalties little improvement in pass protection and running game from last year the addition of. Pollack did not improve the line as we hoped especially  since we were  overall healthier than last yr  plus, reiff pickup and 2nd round pick. Kc scored with their rookie lineman where ours did not.  Having Burrow all year was major but if our defense had not improved doubt we make the playoffs.  

When Reiff was healthy...while not a good line, it was ok. When he got injured, it went to terrible.

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(02-20-2022, 12:35 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: When Reiff was healthy...while not a good line, it was ok. When he got injured, it went to terrible.

It really really REALLY wasn't. In games Reiff started, Burrow was sacked at a 8.6% rate on dropbacks. That's basically 4 sacks for every 42 pass attempts.

Burrow led the NFL most of the year in sacks even with Reiff starting. He had FOUR different games of being sacked 5 times while Reiff was starting. The Bengals were 1-3 in those games.


EDIT:
Other playoff QB Sack%..
Tannehill: 8.1%
Jimmy G: 6.2%
Murray: 6.1%
Carr: 6.0%
Rapist: 5.9%
Hurts: 5.7%
Rodgers: 5.3%
M Jones: 5.1%
Prescott: 4.8%
Stafford: 4.8%
Mahomes: 4.1%
Allen: 3.9%
Brady: 3.0%

You have Tannehill (who was awful in 2021) .5% behind and then after him there's nobody within even 2% of Burrow WITH Reiff. The next closest is Jimmy G at 2.4% lower, which is a huge amount, and that's when you claim the OL was "ok".

Interesting of note among those 13 QBs...
The 5 with a Sack% below 5.0% went 7-4 in the playoffs.
The 8 with a Sack% above 5.0% went 2-8 in the playoffs. (Both wins by Jimmy G.)

[fredtoast]

(02-20-2022, 12:27 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: That also continues to reinforce how bad the Mixon contract was (granted almost all RB 2nd contracts are bad anymore). What's the point of having the 7th highest paid RB in the NFL if you're down by 3 in the Super Bowl on the final drive of the game, and he can't even be on the field? Imagine a top-10 paid QB who with 1:25 left in the Super Bowl you said "sorry, we don't trust you to help us win this game, we want your backup in".

I don't think you understand that the only reason he was in there was because of the clock.  Had nothing to do with Zac thinking Perine was the better player to have in there.

You were also wrong with your claims about Reif's injury history.

Maybe you would not be so negative all the time if you knew a little more what you were talking about.

[fredtoast]

(02-20-2022, 12:50 PM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: The next closest is Jimmy G at 2.4% lower, which is a huge amount, and that's when you claim the OL was "ok".

It is less than a sack per game.  Not really that huge.

[Essex Johnson]

(02-20-2022, 12:29 PM)CincyDog Wrote: Don’t you tell everyone  constantly  that Herbert is superior to Burrow in like ever aspect of the game?

Actually . You’ve been quiet about that over the last few months. Wonder why? Lol

Nice distraction from topic, Herbert is solid young QB  that I predicted would be  but glad  Burrow moved the bar this year to have a better year. Funny how so many hate Herbert on here..why is that?

[CincyDog]

(02-20-2022, 02:16 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: Nice distraction from topic, Herbert is solid young QB  that I predicted would be  but glad  Burrow moved the bar this year to have a better year. Funny how so many hate Herbert on here..why is that?

Herbert is really good. And you were really wrong

You went out of your way to be obnoxious about it. Literally making shit up. And now you’re just remembered as a moron

Lol. You reported the amazing thread you started last year saying burrow was awful throwing deep.

You’re like fake news

[fredtoast]

(02-20-2022, 02:16 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote:  Funny how so many hate Herbert on here..why is that?

Pretty simple to understand.  So many people were trying to claim Herbert was better than Burrow.

Funny that YOU would ask this question.