O-Line Cost Us a Championship

[higgy100]

Just curious but if Wilson doesn't get called for holding and Cinci. would have won the SB would the OL still have "cost us a championship"?

[Soonerpeace]

(02-21-2022, 10:09 AM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: That’s right. The Front Office and coaches have TRIED to fix the offensive line since 2016 via the draft and via trade but they have FAILED MISERABLY. It matters not who the quarterback is; Andy Dalton, Ryan Finley, Brandon Allen, and Joe Burrow have all been slammed into the turf far too many times, hit too many times, and hurried in the pocket too many times.

Like the defense, the offensive line will only be fixed by a focus on free agency FIRST. The Bengals don’t need linemen fresh out of university. They need experienced linemen with an established body of work.

Let’s do it right this time.

And that’s how they feel too. They looked hard at Sewell and everybody assumes they were dead set on Chase. Sewell and Jonah Williams graded about the same in PFF. They just thought that Chase would provide more immediate help and had Jonah then picked up Reiff.

They are tired of screwing around with a few linemen who they just don’t feel want to do what it takes. They are just taking a check. Don’t know who that is. But I’d assume they take a solid center and add a mid priced guard in FA and draft a tackle at #31.

[higgy100]

(02-21-2022, 11:02 AM)Soonerpeace Wrote: And that’s how they feel too. They looked hard at Sewell and everybody assumes they were dead set on Chase. Sewell and Jonah Williams graded about the same in PFF. They just thought that Chase would provide more immediate help and had Jonah then picked up Reiff.

They are tired of screwing around with a few linemen who they just don’t feel want to do what it takes. They are just taking a check. Don’t know who that is. But I’d assume they take a solid center and add a mid priced guard in FA and draft a tackle at #31.

Yep.Sewell may have been a great pick but, on the flip, it had been at least a couple of years prior to drafting Chase that the Bengals offense had anybody that required the defense to cover the entire field against them. AJ missed over half of each of his last 2 seasons and was just a shell of himself when he played. Single coverage WR that wasn't even close to requiring safety help. Really really hard to move the football in the NFL that way especially when you just picked a franchise QB.I was ecstatic when they drafted Chase.

[Bengalbug]

(02-21-2022, 10:50 AM)higgy100 Wrote: Just curious but if Wilson doesn't get called for holding and Cinci. would have won the SB would the OL still have "cost us a championship"?

That is a hypothetical world. But we would have won in spite of our OL. Eventually it was going to catch up with the team, and it did. On the two last offensive plays of the year.

[higgy100]

(02-21-2022, 11:28 AM)Bengalbug Wrote: That is a hypothetical world.  But we would have won in spite of our OL.  Eventually it was going to catch up with the team, and it did.  On the two last offensive plays of the year.

Is it not also hypothetical to assume they tie it up and that Burrow even with more time may have overthrown a receiver or maybe another drop or thrown a pick, or maybe the Rams could have made a great defensive play? There are a dozen plays in that game, maybe a few less or more, some visible and some naked to our vision, that did/could have played a role in winning that game.

[fredtoast]

(02-14-2022, 12:58 PM)Frank Booth Wrote: Jackson Carman is a bust until proven otherwise

Bum

Based on your logic dozens of Pro Bowl and All pro players were also "bums".

So your logic is pretty useless as far as planning for the future.

[Bengalbug]

(02-21-2022, 11:45 AM)higgy100 Wrote: Is it not also hypothetical to assume they tie it up and that Burrow even with more time may have overthrown a receiver or maybe another drop or thrown a pick, or maybe the Rams could have made a great defensive play? There are a dozen plays in that game, maybe a few less or more, some visible and some naked to our vision, that did/could have played a role in winning that game.

I promise you, if the bengals had a better OL, the offense would have done more in the SB. I’m not sure if you saw or not, but the WRs had the DBs on ice all game.

Maybe Perine can get a yard with a better OL?

Defending the OL at this point is silly.

It’s like defending ryan tannehill on the titans. He was clearly the reason they lost that game. No shame in that. If they had a better QB, they very likely beat us. If I’m the titans I’m looking to get Russ, Rodgers, Watson or someone that would prove to be an upgrade. The rest of that team is ready to deliver.

Now tannehill isn’t a BAD qb, but he isn’t a SB winning QB on that specific team. His defense got 9 sacks and he still lost.

[higgy100]

(02-21-2022, 12:02 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: I promise you, if the bengals had a better OL, the offense would have done more in the SB. I’m not sure if you saw or not, but the WRs had the DBs on ice all game.  

Maybe Perine can get a yard with a better OL?

Defending the OL at this point is silly.

It’s like defending ryan tannehill on the titans.  He was clearly the reason they lost that game.  No shame in that. If they had a better QB, they very likely beat us.  If I’m the titans I’m looking to get Russ, Rodgers, Watson or someone that would prove to be an upgrade.  The rest of that team is ready to deliver.

Now tannehill isn’t a BAD qb, but he isn’t a SB winning QB on that specific team.  His defense got 9 sacks and he still lost.

LOL. You promise me, huh?

Again, maybe Perine gets the yard with better vision.

Maybe they get THAT 1st down with more creative playcalling.

Maybe Burrow would absolutely love to get back the "forced" pass to Chase on 4th and 1 on the first drive when Higgins was wide open.

Maybe Burrow would have loved to not overthrow the RB wide open in the deep flat early in the game.

Maybe Boyd gets the 1st down the series prior if he doesn't drop the ball.

Maybe this, maybe that.

Maybe this, maybe that.

Again, to dummy it down, there were lots of plays that could have happened even with an OL/QB that allowed 5-6 sack the 2nd half.
The OL struggles is NOT a recipe for future success but on SB sunday there were other plays/calls that attributed to the loss.

[Bengalbug]

(02-21-2022, 12:12 PM)higgy100 Wrote: LOL. You promise me, huh?

Again, maybe Perine gets the yard with better vision.

Maybe they get THAT 1st down with more creative playcalling.

Maybe Burrow would absolutely love to get back the "forced" pass to Chase on 4th and 1 on the first drive when Higgins was wide open.

Maybe Burrow would have loved to not overthrow the RB wide open in the deep flat early in the game.

Maybe Boyd gets the 1st down the series prior if he doesn't drop the ball.

Maybe this, maybe that.

Maybe this, maybe that.

Again, to dummy it down, there were lots of plays that could have happened even with an OL/QB that allowed 5-6 sack the 2nd half.
The OL struggles is NOT a recipe for future success but on SB sunday there were other plays/calls that attributed to the loss.

You are right. If the bengals executed perfect football, they would have won. If the bengals had a better OL (I’m talking like one guard and or C) and the exact same game plan/execution, they would have won.

You realize Aaron Donald on back to back plays steamrolled all 3 of our IOL? This doesn’t even include the other 59:00 minutes of football.

[TKUHL]

(02-21-2022, 10:50 AM)higgy100 Wrote: Just curious but if Wilson doesn't get called for holding and Cinci. would have won the SB would the OL still have "cost us a championship"?

The Oline still would be a glaring need. But that play by Wilson was an outstanding play that should have never been called. Should have been the play of the game causing Wilson to be the MVP.

[TKUHL]

(02-21-2022, 12:12 PM)higgy100 Wrote: LOL. You promise me, huh?

Again, maybe Perine gets the yard with better vision.

Maybe they get THAT 1st down with more creative playcalling.

Maybe Burrow would absolutely love to get back the "forced" pass to Chase on 4th and 1 on the first drive when Higgins was wide open.

Maybe Burrow would have loved to not overthrow the RB wide open in the deep flat early in the game.

Maybe Boyd gets the 1st down the series prior if he doesn't drop the ball.

Maybe this, maybe that.

Maybe this, maybe that.

Again, to dummy it down, there were lots of plays that could have happened even with an OL/QB that allowed 5-6 sack the 2nd half.
The OL struggles is NOT a recipe for future success but on SB sunday there were other plays/calls that attributed to the loss.

If he followed his blocker he would have had it easily and maybe more.

[TKUHL]

We should have won this game the same as the other playoff games with a D stop and maybe a INT to seal the deal.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-21-2022, 12:02 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: I promise you, if the bengals had a better OL, the offense would have done more in the SB. I’m not sure if you saw or not, but the WRs had the DBs on ice all game.  

Maybe Perine can get a yard with a better OL?

Defending the OL at this point is silly.

It’s like defending ryan tannehill on the titans.  He was clearly the reason they lost that game.  No shame in that. If they had a better QB, they very likely beat us.  If I’m the titans I’m looking to get Russ, Rodgers, Watson or someone that would prove to be an upgrade.  The rest of that team is ready to deliver.

Now tannehill isn’t a BAD qb, but he isn’t a SB winning QB on that specific team.  His defense got 9 sacks and he still lost.

Absolutely. But, as we didn't have much cap space...IF say we signed Thuney and didn't sign Hendrickson and Awuzie...then how is the team?

[higgy100]

(02-21-2022, 12:23 PM)TKUHL Wrote: The Oline still would be a glaring need. But that play by Wilson was an outstanding play that should have never been called. Should have been the play of the game causing Wilson to be the MVP.

OL is a huge need to keep JB upright which will lead to success. Great play defending that play by Wilson. I believe the hold, from what I saw and heard, was prior to Cupp making his actual break on the play and there was some hold but why not throw the flag immediately and not wait until the play was over? It's like "let's see if the hold has anything to do with the play" and that will determine.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(02-21-2022, 12:26 PM)TKUHL Wrote: We should have won this game the same as the other playoff games with a D stop and maybe a INT to seal the deal.

That would have certainly been ideal.  However, due to lack of offensive production, the Bengals found themselves in the same situation against the Raiders, the Titans, the Chiefs, and the Rams -- and three out of four times it worked.  Interceptions by Germaine Pratt saved the day against the Raiders, Logan Wilson against the Titans, and Von Bell against the Chiefs -- and Logan Wilson nearly saved the game against the Rams. 

I love our defense and I have all kinds of mad props for Lou Anarumo but there comes a time when the Bengals need to upgrade the offensive line and seal up playoff wins in the third quarter.  It stinks to have the likes of Joe Burrow, Tee Higgins, Ja'Marr Chase, Tyler Boyd, Joe Mixon, and CJ Uzomah on offense and still struggle to score points.

[higgy100]

(02-21-2022, 12:33 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: That would have certainly been ideal.  However, due to lack of offensive production, the Bengals found themselves in the same situation against the Raiders, the Titans, the Chiefs, and the Rams -- and three out of four times it worked.  Interceptions by Germaine Pratt saved the day against the Raiders, Logan Wilson against the Titans, and Von Bell against the Chiefs -- and Logan Wilson nearly saved the game against the Rams. 

I love our defense and I have all kinds of mad props for Lou Anarumo but there comes a time when the Bengals need to upgrade the offensive line and seal up playoff wins in the third quarter.  It stinks to have the likes of Joe Burrow, Tee Higgins, Ja'Marr Chase, Tyler Boyd, Joe Mixon, and CJ Uzomah on offense and still struggle to score points.

I don't know about sealing up a playoff game in the 3rd quarter because it is the NFL and that doesn't happen much but all thru the season it was very difficult to watch 3rd and 2 on a run become 4th and 1, yet, they're having to line up in shotgun with 5 wide to get that extra yard or less way too many times. Very similar to watching OSU this past season.

[Bengalbug]

(02-21-2022, 12:30 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Absolutely. But, as we didn't have much cap space...IF say we signed Thuney and didn't sign Hendrickson and Awuzie...then how is the team?

You could have done both. The chiefs did it with Thuney, we could have as wel.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-21-2022, 12:47 PM)Bengalbug Wrote: You could have done both.  The chiefs did it with Thuney, we could have as wel.

Well, it's something the Bengals have never done.

When is the last time the Bengals had cap issues during the offseason because they spent too aggressively.

[THE PISTONS]

IF forced to guess, the Bengals will tag Bates. Then, they'll wait in free agency...until Day 4/5...after all the money is spent, and they'll see which Guards and Tackles are there and see which ones they can sign for what they consider a reasonable contract. Then, they'll add 2 Guards and maybe a Tackle. Maybe 1 Guard is Spain. Maybe Reiff re-signs.

At TE, they'll look at CJ and see if he takes a discount. They may let him test the market, and see if he doesn't get what he wants. Then, they'll go for a value TE if they can't keep CJ.

They'll likely take a Tackle or Guard in the 1st or 2nd Round to develop.

[Bengalbug]

(02-21-2022, 01:36 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Well, it's something the Bengals have never done.

When is the last time the Bengals had cap issues during the offseason because they spent too aggressively.

And there is a reason that they have been average or worse, for the majority of 30+ years.

This is the first time the bengals have had a viable Super Bowl team (with the exception of 05 Bengals) during the salary cap era - 1994. It’s time to throw the old model out the window…it’s delivered us exactly 1 season of playoff victories. The biggest difference between Bree’s and rivers…. 1 super bowl.