The Bengals had a PBWR of 18% in the SB!

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-14-2022, 03:58 PM)Oasis5055 Wrote: And how did the offense do. You are calling plays because of what the quarterback likes or what gives you the best chance to win?

There is no quarterback on earth that does not love a run and shoot offense. How many Super Bowls has a run and shoot offense won?

You'd have a point if that's all they ran. I dunno, that offense had a pretty damn good year, and if you weren't aware, we have a rather intelligent QB. Successful teams (like the Rams, for example), ask their QBs what they like, the HC tells the QB what he likes in situations. It's a fluid and open communication type of relationship that he learned from Sean McVay, the guy that won the super bowl.

[Bengalholic]

(02-14-2022, 03:44 PM)Science Friction Wrote: Aren't there things that our HC and OC could have done to mitigate the Rams defensive pressure?  Like roll outs, for example?  I'm sure I don't know football as well as some of you so help me out.  Zac and Brian know way more football than I ever will. What am I missing here?

At some point, when the line is as bad as this one...there's only so much you can do. Eventually, they are going to get exposed and that's what happened in the 2nd half. When that happens, it limits an already limited playbook (to account for the o-line) even more. I will say I was disappointed they didn't try the screen game a little more, and they didn't seem very committed to the running game in the 2nd half.

[Essex Johnson]

(02-14-2022, 03:29 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yes - This is the telling statistic. 18%!

Here is what PBWR is: ESPN's pass block win rate (PBWR) statistic tracks how often an offensive lineman "wins" his block versus a defensive lineman across the first 2.5 seconds of a pass play.

So on 82% of the passing plays, the Rams got pressure on Burrow in 2.5 seconds or less.

There was little to no pressure on Burrow in 1st half but we did not take advantage of it.. 

[Bengalfan4life27c]

(02-14-2022, 03:44 PM)Science Friction Wrote: Aren't there things that our HC and OC could have done to mitigate the Rams defensive pressure?  Like roll outs, for example?  I'm sure I don't know football as well as some of you so help me out.  Zac and Brian know way more football than I ever will. What am I missing here?

The roll out plays are where the career ending injuries usually come from in todays NFL. With Prince playing RT forget about it.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-14-2022, 03:58 PM)Oasis5055 Wrote: And how did the offense do. You are calling plays because of what the quarterback likes or what gives you the best chance to win?

There is no quarterback on earth that does not love a run and shoot offense. How many Super Bowls has a run and shoot offense won?

You will put up lots of points against average mediocre teams. Against schemes like the second half your offensive line is completely exposed.

Last night was A failure of scheme as much as anything else. The bengals were able to block the first half. How is that? Their line is terrible.

The rams scheme change in the second half
Exposed the failure of the run and shoot offense

You right, KC, TN are soooo mediocre....lol.

Look, it happens, you get beat by better teams. I just don't understand dogging a guy that took us to the Super Bowl after 6 years of losing. You've been on his ass in every thread, lol. Their more experienced staff adjusted, and we didn't compensate. Again, it happens. In fact, it happened to the winning coach. He noted he learned from his loss, and now he has a ring. 

Our offensive line has been completely exposed since 2016. This isn't anything new. The fact that our QB was sacked 70 times on the year, and we came within 3 points in the Super Bowl is pretty damn impressive, but I guess we're not giving the coaches any credit for getting us there. Play calling is limited when you're handicapped like that against the best defender in the entire league. How many times has our staff adjusted and we came out and won games in the second half?

[THE PISTONS]

(02-14-2022, 03:53 PM)Wyche Wrote: You do realize that Joe Burrow is the one that loves the 5 wide set, right? They run that a lot because that's what HE likes.

Yes. I feel like Taylor kind of went away from his system in favor of things Burrow likes...which is when the offense improved.

Interestingly, Joe Brady was out there. He's now the Bills QB Coach. I would have loved to bring him in as some type of coach here.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-14-2022, 04:01 PM)Wyche Wrote: You'd have a point if that's all they ran. I dunno, that offense had a pretty damn good year, and if you weren't aware, we have a rather intelligent QB. Successful teams (like the Rams, for example), ask their QBs what they like, the HC tells the QB what he likes in situations. It's a fluid and open communication type of relationship that he learned from Sean McVay, the guy that won the super bowl.

The offensive line being this bad is the variable that's hard to account for. Like I know it limits them, but how much? Feels like a lot sometimes.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-14-2022, 04:02 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: At some point, when the line is as bad as this one...there's only so much you can do. Eventually, they are going to get exposed and that's what happened in the 2nd half. When that happens, it limits and already limited playbook (to account for the o-line) even more. I will say I was disappointed they didn't try the screen game a little more, and they didn't seem very committed to the running game in the 2nd half.

Now I'd absolutely agree with that. I was pounding on the bar for more Mixon. The only drawback there, is that they just didn't seem to be able to convert those short yardage run plays. Been an issue all year, really. 

[Oasis5055]

(02-14-2022, 04:08 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: You right, KC, TN are soooo mediocre....lol.

Look, it happens, you get beat by better teams. I just don't understand dogging a guy that took us to the Super Bowl after 6 years of losing. You've been on his ass in every thread, lol. Their more experienced staff adjusted, and we didn't compensate. Again, it happens. In fact, it happened to the winning coach. He noted he learned from his loss, and now he has a ring. 

Our offensive line has been completely exposed since 2016. This isn't anything new. The fact that our QB was sacked 70 times on the year, and we came within 3 points in the Super Bowl is pretty damn impressive, but I guess we're not giving the coaches any credit for getting us there. Play calling is limited when you're handicapped like that against the best defender in the entire league. How many times has our staff adjusted and we came out and won games in the second half?

You are right Taylor deserves credit. I’m just not sure how much of the success is burrow vs Taylor. But facts are facts Taylor has been one of the worst coaches record wise in history without burrow as his quarterback.

If he learns and adjusts great I hope so for bengals fans

[Bengalholic]

(02-14-2022, 04:10 PM)Wyche Wrote: Now I'd absolutely agree with that. I was pounding on the bar for more Mixon. The only drawback there, is that they just didn't seem to be able to convert those short yardage run plays. Been an issue all year, really. 

I'm still wondering why Mixon was watching from the sideline on the final drive. 

[Bengalfan4life27c]

(02-14-2022, 04:10 PM)Wyche Wrote: Now I'd absolutely agree with that. I was pounding on the bar for more Mixon. The only drawback there, is that they just didn't seem to be able to convert those short yardage run plays. Been an issue all year, really. 

This is why Hopkins needs replaced a good C can fix that. We can get an all pro G and T next year we will still struggle in short yardage with Hopkins.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-14-2022, 04:10 PM)Wyche Wrote: Now I'd absolutely agree with that. I was pounding on the bar for more Mixon. The only drawback there, is that they just didn't seem to be able to convert those short yardage run plays. Been an issue all year, really. 

So when the Rams overloaded one side...why not run to the other? Or bring in a 6th lineman?

I don't know. Seemed pretty unorthodox what the Rams did.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-14-2022, 04:08 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yes. I feel like Taylor kind of went away from his system in favor of things Burrow likes.

Interestingly, Joe Brady was out there. He's now the Bills QB Coach. I would have loved to bring him in as some type of coach here.

Yep. He has his spin on it, and they don't run empty every down, but he has definitely made some tweaks to his system to accommodate the QB. There was an interesting pregame segment with McVay and Stafford talking about doing the same thing.....and there have been articles about the structure here and the relationship between the QB and his coaches.

(02-14-2022, 04:09 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The offensive line being this bad is the variable that's hard to account for. Like I know it limits them, but how much? Feels like a lot sometimes.

Trust me, it limits A LOT. When did the Bengals fall apart? When they started losing olinemen. Look at the FSU Seminoles. They block worse than the Bengals. It's been tough for me to watch. Both of my teams have piss poor offensive lines, and I used to play on the line, it's so frustrating. It's like last year, I could see the plays and concepts developing, but then a rusher would blow the play up before Joe/Brandon/Ryan had a chance. It's a big time handicap, and it's quite frankly damned impressive they made it that far. They had the 30th ranked pass blocking unit in the entire league. Think about that.

[THE PISTONS]

(02-14-2022, 04:13 PM)Oasis5055 Wrote: You are right Taylor deserves credit. I’m just not sure how much of the success is burrow vs Taylor. But facts are facts Taylor has been one of the worst coaches record wise in history without burrow as his quarterback.

If he learns and adjusts great I hope so for bengals fans

I think any discussion on Taylor needs to separate HC and playcaller.

I feel like he says the right things and motivates players. I think the X's and O's is where the issues are. But, I think the strategy improved some point this year. And I don't know why.

Around halfway through the season, there was a dramatic upgrade in the teams strategies.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(02-14-2022, 04:05 PM)Essex Johnson Wrote: There was little to no pressure on Burrow in 1st half but we did not take advantage of it.. 

This is absolutely false. No sacks isn’t the same thing as no pressure. He was having to get he ball out almost immediately even in the first half.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-14-2022, 04:13 PM)Oasis5055 Wrote: You are right Taylor deserves credit. I’m just not sure how much of the success is burrow vs Taylor. But facts are facts Taylor has been one of the worst coaches record wise in history without burrow as his quarterback.

If he learns and adjusts great I hope so for bengals fans

I understand man, and I wasn't sold on Zac either. But part of being a good leader is listening to your subordinates and making them feel like an important part of the decision making. They have a more vested interest, if that makes sense. He'll learn from his X's and O's miscues I believe (he already has quite a bit), but what I really like about him is the type of team he's building. I like the transparency in pressers (from a selfish fan perspective), I like that he recognizes us long suffering fans and includes us with those game balls, I mean, there's a lot of good things there.

I think it's obviously a lot on Joe, but he loves his HC and OC, and they are smart enough to give him a very long leash. 

[Webbtown]

I will echo what many on this board have already said. It amazing this team achieved so much with one of the worst offensive lines in the NFL.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(02-14-2022, 04:13 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: I'm still wondering why Mixon was watching from the sideline on the final drive. 

Me too, I haven't seen anything about an injury. If not, that was a bad decision.

(02-14-2022, 04:14 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: This is why Hopkins needs replaced a good C can fix that. We can get an all pro G and T next year we will still struggle in short yardage with Hopkins.

You're right, and Hopkins would be a GREAT backup. He did improve a lot as the season progressed, just not enough. Adeniji gets blown off the ball way too much.

(02-14-2022, 04:15 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So when the Rams overloaded one side...why not run to the other? Or bring in a 6th lineman?

I don't know. Seemed pretty unorthodox what the Rams did.

They were doing a lot of disguising, sometimes dropping someone out of that overload into coverage, and some stunts. It put too many in coverage, and led to confusion up front. Sometimes they were triple teaming someone, and freed up a rusher AND had 7 in coverage. It's almost like the 2nd half adjustment we made in KC.

[BigRed75]

(02-14-2022, 03:44 PM)Science Friction Wrote: Aren't there things that our HC and OC could have done to mitigate the Rams defensive pressure?  Like roll outs, for example?  I'm sure I don't know football as well as some of you so help me out.  Zac and Brian know way more football than I ever will. What am I missing here?

Simply put yes.  As one poster already said, there's only so much you can do but the problem is Zac didn't exhaust all his options.  Where was the eye candy / motion?  Why not use an extra blocker more often only to call an unsuspecting pass play out of that formation?  Where was the quick bubble / screen passes to the WR particularly Chase?  These are plays you run when your QB has no time...rolling him out is an option but at that point you're taking half the field away so you can only do that so many times and only in certain situations.  I like Zac and I think he will learn but the play calling was suspect all postseason but especially bad last night.

[Stonyhands]

(02-14-2022, 03:53 PM)WychesWarrior Wrote: You do realize that Joe Burrow is the one that loves the 5 wide set, right? They run that a lot because that's what HE likes.

…and an experienced NFL play caller would have said no. Having your HC learning the ways of the NFL from the standpoint of a HC and OC while coaching an inexperienced QB is a recipe for disaster. Who’d have thought?